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Question on the Pirke de R. Eliezer
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by africurious: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: [qb] Africurious said: [b]^You cited a source for me in what you wrote. See pg 155 of Goldenberg's book where he says the idea of a dark Ham cannot be dated with confidence before the 4th century, where it appears in the Palestinian Talmud. He does mention the possibility that a black ham may stem from tannaitic traditions in the 2nd century. In any case, both these sources are 800-1,000 yrs after the OT was put together. [/b] ^Fair enough but on page 155 Goldenberg notes the Palestinian version which originated no later than 220CE, and gives that equal potential weight with the Talmudian referenced version- with the Palestinian version in fact being more specific as to the "darkening" of Ham;s skin than the more vague Babylonian text. Hence, your statement that the "earliest assignment" was the 4th century CE seems a bit misleading. According to the more specific Palestinian version, the "assignment" was before that. [/qb][/QUOTE]I didn't post anything misleading. You didn't read carefully, again. See below quote from said pg: [QUOTE][qb]Does the Palestinian version with the "black" etymology represent a variant tannaitic tradition, thus originating not later than 220 ce, or does it represent a later amoraic gloss of the original tannaitic statement (as recorded in the Babylonian Talmud) and therefore should be dated no later than 370 ce when the Palestinian Talmud was redacted? With the evidence before us today, we cannot say. It is possible that "Ham [ham] went forth darkened [mefuham]" goes back to the tannaitic period, but given the textual situation before us today we cannot establish a sure dating before the redaction of the Palestinian talmud.[/qb][/QUOTE]And of course whether its 800 or 1,000 yrs after the OT doesnt change my point that an extreme amount of time passed since the Noah story appeared in the OT so how can one not question whether the Jewish scholar(s) who 1st came up with the black Ham bit completely understood the meaning of the story? [/QB][/QUOTE]
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