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The Garamantes were not Berber speakers
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Libya_ethnic_groups.jpg[/IMG] [/QB][/QUOTE]^^^^ the above is from the following wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Libya#Ethnic_and_tribal_groups [i] Demographics of Libya.... Ethnic groups The native population of Libya is primarily Arab or a mixture of Arab-Berber ethnicities, with a small minority of Berber-speaking tribal groups concentrated in northwest part of Tripolitania, Tuareg and Toubou tribes can be found in southern Libya, which are nomadic or semi-nomadic. Most of the Libyans claim descent from the Bedouin Arab tribes of the Banu Hilal and the Banu Sulaym, who invaded the Maghreb in the 11th century. There is also some Punic admixture, and a curious traditional element from the Romanized Punics such as the Roman toga can be seen in Tripoli's people and was used by Muammar Gaddafi himself. In the west of the country, there are some Tuareg nomads, mobile across the Libyan-Algerian border. Tuaregs are also scattered over Algeria, Mali, Niger and Burkina Faso. In the southeast, there are small populations of the Nilo-Saharan Toubou (Tibbu), although they occupy between a quarter and a third of the country and who also inhabit Niger and Chad. Among foreign residents, the largest groups are from other African nations, including citizens of other North African nations (primarily Egyptians) as well as sub-Saharan Africans. Tribal groups Libyan society is to a large extent structured along tribal lines, with more than 20 major tribal groups. The major tribal groups of Libya are:[ [b]Tripolitania: [/b]Al-Awager - ALUAGER Warfalla, Tarhona, Wershifana, Al-Fwatir, Awlad Busayf, Al-Zintan, Al-Rijban, Zuwarah. [b]Cyrenaica:[/b] Al-Awagir, Al-Abaydat, Drasa, Al-Barasa, Al-Fawakhir, Al-Zuwayya, Al-Majabra, Al-Msmare. [b]Sirte:[/b] Al-Qaddadfa, Al-Magarha, Al-Magharba, Al-Riyyah, Al-Haraba, Al-Zuwaid, Al-Guwaid. [b]Fezzan:[/b] Al-Hutman, Al-Hassawna; Toubou, Tuareg. [b]Kufra:[/b] Al-Zuwayya; Toubou. [/i] Looking at the map why are the Toureg (and also in other articles we have discussed recently) not listed as berbers or even "Tuareg-berbers" ? On the other hand the Tuareg article also in wikipedia opens with " The Tuareg (also spelled Twareg or Touareg; endonym Imuhagh) are a Berber people" Looking at the map orange - berbers are showing in {b]Tripolitania: [/b] [b]Tripolitania: [/b] Al-Awager - ALUAGER Warfalla, Tarhona, Wershifana, Al-Fwatir, Awlad Busayf, Al-Zintan, Al-Rijban, Zuwarah. ^^^ I suppose one or more of these must be berber then, I'm not familiar with these names _____________________________________________________ Now, looking at the Tuareg (purple) they are to te south in Fezzan maybe the distinction is being made according to this statement on Tuareg DNA again from the same wiki entry: [i]E1b1b1b (E-M81), the major haplogroup in Tuaregs, is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in North Africa, dominated by its sub-clade E-M183. It is thought to have originated in North Africa 5,600 years ago. The parent clade E1b1b originated in East Africa.[43][44] Colloquially referred to as the Berber marker for its prevalence among Mozabite, Middle Atlas, Kabyle people and other Berber groups, E-M81 is also predominant among other North African groups. It reaches frequencies of up to 100 percent in some parts of the Maghreb. The other major haplogroup is E1b1a mainly found in sub-saharan Africa. Overall, a cline appears, with Algerian Tuaregs being closer to other Berbers and Arabs, and those from southern Mali being more similar to subsaharan West Africans. [Ottoni et al.] (2011) [/i] ________________________________________________ [b]Libya: Deep Into The Roots Of The Libyan Tuareg: A Genetic Survey Of Their Paternal Heritage[/b] Claudio Ottoni, et al 2011 Recent genetic studies of the Tuareg have begun to uncover the origin of this semi-nomadic northwest African people and their relationship with African populations. For centuries they were caravan traders plying the trade routes between the Mediterranean coast and south-Saharan Africa.[b] Their origin most likely coincides with the fall of the Garamantes who inhabited the Fezzan (Libya) between the 1st millennium BC and the 5th century AD.[/b] In this study we report novel data on the Y-chromosome variation in the Libyan Tuareg from Al Awaynat and Tahala, two villages in Fezzan, whose maternal genetic pool was previously characterized. High-resolution investigation of 37 Y-chromosome STR loci and analysis of 35 bi-allelic markers in 47 individuals revealed a predominant northwest African component (E-M81, haplogroup E1b1b1b) which likely originated in the second half of the Holocene in the same ancestral population that contributed to the maternal pool of the Libyan Tuareg. A significant paternal contribution from south-Saharan Africa (E-U175, haplogroup E1b1a8) was also detected, which may likely be due to recent secondary introduction, possibly through slavery practices or fusion between different tribal groups. The difference in haplogroup composition between the villages of Al Awaynat and Tahala suggests that founder effects and drift played a significant role in shaping the genetic pool of the Libyan Tuareg. _____________________________________________ but I'm not sure that map which separates berbers and Tuareg is based on these nuances in DNA [/QB][/QUOTE]
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