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The Garamantes were not Berber speakers
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] Clyde what about haplogroups M81 which are highest frequency in berbers and U6 and/or M1 which are also high in many berbers? Aren't there a lot of genetic studies that came after Diop passed? Clyde and xyyman are at opposite extremes on this [/qb][/QUOTE]I have made clear in all of my work that M1 spread across Africa before the OoA exit 50kya. See: Haplogroup L3 (M,N) probably spread across Africa before the Out of Africa event http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/367/1590/770/reply#royptb_el_319 and . The African Origin of mtDNA Haplogroup M1 Co-Author's: Clyde Winters Corresponding Author: Clyde Winters Key words: Haplogroup, Sangoan, clade, haplotype, mtDNA, subhaplogroup, Vol. 2 , Issue: 6, 380-389 Abstract: The aim of this study is to determine the geographical origin of haplogroup M1. Controversy surrounds the origin and expansion of the M1 haplogroup (hg). Some researchers believe that the M1 macrohaplogroup originated in Asia and represents a backflow to Africa, while other researchers believe hg M1 is of African origin. The analysis of M1 clades in Africa and Eurasia illustrate a high frequency for hg M1 in Sub Saharan Africa (SSA) instead of A sia and the Near East; and the distribution of haplogroups L3(M) and LOd across Sub Saharan Africa dating back to the Sangoan period make a 'back migration' of M1 to Africa highly unlikely. http://www.maxwellsci.com/print/crjbs/v2-380-389.pdf There are many M haplogroups found in Africa [IMG]http://olmec98.net/hgM1.jpg[/IMG] 1. The most recent common ancestor (TMRC) of AMH carrying LOd according to Gonder et al. dates to 106kya. A haplotype of LOd is AF-24, delineated by DdeI site 10394 and AluI site of np 10397. Haplogroup L3 (M,N) is characterized by the DdeI site np 10394 and AluI 10397. Chen et al. maintain that Haplotype AF-24 (DQ112852) is at the base of the M Haplogroup [4]. The only African mtDNA that has both of these sites is the Senegalese AF-24 associated with Haplogroup L3 [Chen]. The presence of AF-24 among the Senegalese, given the antiquity of this haplotype in relation to LOd, suggests an early expansion of L3 (M,N) from East Africa to West Africa before the OoA event suggested by Oppenheimer. Gonder et al. has dated L3 to 100kya [5]. Oppenheimer [1] and Behar et al [3] on the other hand have postulated an estimated time for TMRCA of L3 to around 70kya. The presence of L3 (M,N) in West Africa and haplotype AF- 24 suggest an ancient demic diffusion of L3 (M,N) to West Africa prior to 70kya, and support Soares et al.'s [2] and Gonder et al.'s [5] dating of L3 between 80-100kya. Anatomically modern humans arrived in Senegal during the Sangoan period. Sangoan artifacts spread from East Africa to West Africa between 100-80kya. In Senegal Sangoan material was discovered near Cap Manuel [6], Gambia River in Senegal [8,9]; and Cap Vert [7]. The distribution of the Sangoan culture supports the demic diffusion of L3 (M,N) into West Africa over 100kya. [IMG]http://olmec98.net/hapm1.jpg[/IMG] Contemporary north africans are probably the children of the early africans who took haplogroup M to Northwest Africa (NWA). Rosa et al claims an autochthonous origin for haplogroup U6 in NWA given the diversity of U6 clades in NWA around 38kya. Using this criterion, the diversity of U5 clades in SSWA and the phylogeography of U5 in this region, support an in situ origin for the U5 clade in the same region as haplogroup U6. In summary, the genetic data from contemporary European populations fails to support a migration of populations carrying haplogroup U5 into Europe via the Levant. The low frequency of U5 in Europe, except among the Saami, probably indicates a single episode of ancient gene flow from NWA and SSWA into Iberia 9kya. The present phylogeograpical distribution of the U5 cline reflects demographic porcesses involving population replacement, drift and a history of genetic bottlenecks resulting from demic diffussion of neolithic populations from the Levant and Central Asia into Europe. The temporal and spatial distribution of U5 and U6 clades outside Europe, point to a NWA and SSWA origin for these lineages. The high frequency of U5 in NWA and SSWA suggest the spread of the U5 cline into Iberia across the Straits of Gibraltar 7kya. ; [/QB][/QUOTE]
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