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The Garamantes were not Berber speakers
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler: I think many "Berbers," for the most part, descend from pre-Berber Maurusians (who were relegated to the littoral) and pre-Berber Gafsians (whose sites were further inland). Nikita's trephination point is it's practiced by Tubu today not by Kels. Tin Hanan (whom Kel Ahaggar claim as "ancestress") her tomb is Tubu architecture. Also those Kels in SW Fezzan's Ghat moved there upon Qadhafi's invitation in the 1970's, iirc. [/QB][/QUOTE]Nikita says that its ''most likely'' that modern Berbers and the Garamantes population attained the practice from the Nile Valley, likely because of what I said earlier; the tendency to see discontinuity between Epi-Palaeolithic Maghrebi populations and modern Berber populations. Can you specify what you mean with ''Tubu architecture'' and the significance of Tuareg in the Ghat region? [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler: There are some Palestinians who claim Pelishti ancestry which would make them Aegean settlers and so still not supporting claims of being the original land holders.[/QB][/QUOTE]They do? Didn't know that. From what I know from past inquiries into Palestinian and Jewish genetics, they're genetically mostly indistinguishable. This is no surprise. Almost all origin legends, especially told by non-peninsular ''Arab'' populations, that aren't in line with them primarily originating in their current location, are usually made up or only applicable to a minuscule minority. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler: Quite plainly there were no Kels before ~1700 years ago. They are of multiple ancestries which for Fezzani "Tuaregs" includes L0a1 L1b1 L2a (L2a1 L2a1a) L2b L3e (L3e1* L3e2 L3e2b L3e3 L3f) L3w and M1 not just biasedly preferred Eurasian markers (due to a priori assumptions that only those of Eurasian mtDNA's can be the real true North Africans).[/QUOTE]Contrary to the M1, H1 and V lineages I've mentioned, the L mtDNAs you're listing haven't been properly sorted into recent (slave trade) heritage and ancient heritage. Additionally, in Fezzan Tuaregs they're the minority. Also, many L lineages are not recurrent in various Tuareg samples. One would expect the recurrent lineages in North, South, West and East Tuaregs to be representative of Tuareg specific heritage. H1, M1 and V clearly fit this picture, so how would my preference for using them for this purpose qualify as a priori and biased? Can you address the specific point of Iberian H1 and V showing TMRCA and frequency + diversity epicentre relationships with known Capsians site distribution, and the implication that arises out of this, namely, that this aspect of the Fezzan Tuareg maternal genepool has been traversing the Southern Tunisian and adjacent Fezzan region for 10ky? Are these important lineages in the Tebu population? Is there available genetic data for the Tebu? I'm trying to remain open but I already know that the Tebu don't fit the physical descriptions of Garamantes, nor does their Nilo-Saharan/Chadian genetic substratum, as postulated from their language and closest relatives, provide much support for a pre-Neolithic entry into the region. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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