posted
Okay I know this is a noob question and I should already know, but after doing more research on Swahili civilization, its been mind boggling to me and always on my mind. Swahili civilization came to interest to me and is one of my favorite African civilizations. I know you people on here are going to look down on me for asking a silly question like this. But different sources don't seem to be consistent in telling us who founded and controlled this civilization.
Now...I obviously know the Swahili were native Africans, but did they find Swahili civilization and were responsible for the architecture and controlling the islands?
One source states that Kilwa was brought by an Persian Sultan. And then controlled by an Arab family. It was founded in the 10th century by Ali ibn al-Hassan Shirazi, a Persian prince of Shiraz. His family ruled the Sultanate until the year 1277. It was replaced by the Arab family of Abu Moaheb until 1505, when it was overthrown by a Portuguese invasion. By 1513, the sultanate was already fragmented into smaller states, many of which became protectorates of the Sultanate of Oman.
As for Zanzibar, sources also state of early Arab/Iranian rule and that Arabs built the earliest mosques.
Traders from Arabia (mostly Yemen), the Persian Gulf region of Iran (especially Shiraz), and west India probably visited Zanzibar as early as the 1st century AD. They used the monsoon winds to sail across the Indian Ocean and landed at the sheltered harbor located on the site of present-day Zanzibar Town. Although the islands had few resources of interest to the traders, they offered a good location from which to make contact and trade with the towns of the East African coast. A phase of urban development associated with the introduction of stone material to the construction industry of the East African coast began from the 10th century AD. Traders began to settle in small numbers on Zanzibar in the late 11th or 12th century, intermarrying with the indigenous Africans. Eventually a hereditary ruler (known as the Mwenyi Mkuu or Jumbe), emerged among the Hadimu, and a similar ruler, called the Sheha, was set up among the Tumbatu. Neither had much power, but they helped solidify the ethnic identity of their respective peoples. The Yemenis built the earliest mosque in the southern hemisphere in Kizimkazi, the southernmost village in Unguja. A kufic inscription on its mihrab bears the date AH 500, i.e. 1107 AD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zanzibar#Early_Iranian_.26_Arab_rule
Compared to other African civilizations...I know the least about the Swahili civilizations. Minus a few videos or forum discussions. So who was responsible for the rise of the Swahili civilization? Again I apologize for this noob question.
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
The spread of Islam into Africa begins 7-8th century
Looking prior to that in this region:
wiki:
Rhapta
Rhapta was a marketplace on the coast of southeastern Africa, which first rose to prominence in the 1st century CE. Its location has not yet been firmly identified, although there are a number of plausible candidate sites.
The ancient Periplus of the Erythraean Sea described Rhapta as "the last marketplace of Azania," two days' travel south of the Menouthis islands, under the rule of Mapharitis (Ma'afir) in the Arabian peninsula (chapter 16).
According to Claudius Ptolemy, Diogenes, a merchant in the Indian trade, was blown off course from his usual route from India, and after travelling 25 days south along the African coast arrived at Rhapta, located where the river of the same name enters the Indian Ocean opposite the island of Menouthis. Diogenes further describes this river as having its source near the Mountains of the Moon, near the swamp whence the Nile was said to also have its source.
Rhapta is also mentioned by the 6th-century author Cosmas Indicopleustes.
G.W.B. Huntingford lists five proposed locations for Rhapta:
Tanga, at the mouth of the Mkulumuzi and Sigi Rivers Pangani, at the mouth of the Ruvu river Msasani, three miles north of Dar es Salaam — or Dar es Salaam itself Kisuyu Somewhere in the Rufiji River delta, opposite Mafia Island. Huntingford dismisses the first two as being too close to Zanzibar and Pemba islands (which he identifies with Menouthis, and follows the author of the Periplus in locating Menouthis north of Rhapta). He observes that there is no river at Msasani, and thus concludes Kisuyu or the Rufiji delta are the most likely candidates. However, J. Innes Miller points out that Roman coins have been found on Pemba; that the Ruvu emerges near the Kilimanjaro and Meru mountains — which confirm the account of Diogenes; and that an old inscription in Semitic characters has been found near the Pangani estuary, which make Pemba a likely candidate for Rhapta.
In recent years, professor Felix Chami has found archaeological evidence for extensive Roman trade on Mafia Island and, not far away, on the mainland, near the mouth of the Rufiji River, which he dated to the first few centuries CE.
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____________________^^^ notice Rhapta at most Southern postion on route
(off topic: berbers mentioned below several times througout )
The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century
1. Of the designated ports on the Erythraean Sea, and the market-towns around it, the first is the Egyptian port of Mussel Harbor. To those sailing down from that place, on the right hand, after eighteen hundred stadia, there is Berenice. The harbors of both are at the boundary of Egypt, and are bays opening from the Erythraean Sea.
2. On the right-hand coast next below Berenice is the country of the Berbers. Along the shore are the Fish-Eaters, living in scattered caves in the narrow valleys. Further inland are the Berbers, and beyond them the Wild-flesh-Eaters and Calf-Eaters, each tribe governed by its chief; and behind them, further inland, in the country towards the west, there lies a city called Meroe.
3. Below the Calf-Eaters there is a little market-town on the shore after sailing about four thousand stadia from Berenice, called Ptolemais of the Hunts, from which the hunters started for the interior under the dynasty of the Ptolemies. This market-town has the true land-tortoise in small quantity; it is white and smaller in the shells. And here also is found a little ivory like that of Adulis. But the place has no harbor and is reached only by small boats.
4. Below Ptolemais of the Hunts, at a distance of about three thousand stadia, there is Adulis, a port established by law, lying at the inner end of a bay that runs in toward the south. Before the harbor lies the so-called Mountain Island, about two hundred stadia seaward from the very head of the bay, with the shores of the mainland close to it on both sides. Ships bound for this port now anchor here because of attacks from the land. They used formerly to anchor at the very head of the bay, by an island called Diodorus, close to the shore, which could be reached on foot from the land; by which means the barbarous natives attacked the island. Opposite Mountain Island, on the mainland twenty stadia from shore, lies Adulis, a fair-sized village, from which there is a three-days' journey to Coloe, an inland town and the first market for ivory. From that place to the city of the people called Auxumites there is a five days' journey more; to that place all the ivory is brought from the country beyond the Nile through the district called Cyeneum, and thence to Adulis. Practically the whole number of elephants and rhinoceros that are killed live in the places inland, although at rare intervals they are hunted on the seacoast even near Adulis. Before the harbor of that market-town, out at sea on the right hand, there lie a great many little sandy islands called Alalaei, yielding tortoise-shell, which is brought to market there by the Fish-Eaters.
5. And about eight hundred stadia beyond there is another very deep bay, with a great mound of sand piled up at the right of the entrance; at the bottom of which the opsian stone is found, and this is the only place where it is produced. These places, from the Calf-Eaters to the other Berber country, are governed by Zoscales; who is miserly in his ways and always striving for more, but otherwise upright, and acquainted with Greek literature.
6. There are imported into these places, undressed cloth made in Egypt for the Berbers; robes from Arsinoe; cloaks of poor quality dyed in colors; double-fringed linen mantles; many articles of flint glass, and others of murrhine, made in Diospolis; and brass, which is used for ornament and in cut pieces instead of coin; sheets of soft copper, used for cooking-utensils and cut up for bracelets and anklets for the women; iron, which is made into spears used against the elephants and other wild beasts, and in their wars. Besides these, small axes are imported, and adzes and swords; copper drinking-cups, round and large; a little coin for those coming to the market; wine of Laodicea and Italy, not much; olive oil, not much; for the king, gold and silver plate made after the fashion of the country, and for clothing, military cloaks, and thin coats of skin, of no great value. Likewise from the district of Ariaca across this sea, there are imported Indian iron, and steel, and Indian cotton cloth; the broad cloth called monache and that called sagmatogene, and girdles, and coats of skin and mallow-colored cloth, and a few muslins, and colored lac. There are exported from these places ivory, and tortoiseshell and rhinoceros-horn. The most from Egypt is brought to this market from the month of January to September, that is, from Tybi to Thoth; but seasonably they put to sea about the month of September.
7. From this place the Arabian Gulf trends toward the east and becomes narrowest just before the Gulf of Avalites. After about four thousand stadia, for those sailing eastward along the same coast, there are other Berber market-towns, known as the 'far-side' ports; lying at intervals one after the other, without harbors but having roadsteads where ships can anchor and lie in good weather. The first is called Avalites; to this place the voyage from Arabia to the far-side coast is the shortest. Here there is a small market-town called Avalites, which must be reached by boats and rafts. There are imported into this place, flint glass, assorted; juice of sour grapes from Diospolis; dressed cloth, assorted, made for the Berbers; wheat, wine, and a little tin. There are exported from the same place, and sometimes by the Berbers themselves crossing on rafts to Ocelis and Muza on the opposite shore, spices, a little ivory, tortoise-shell, and a very little myrrh, but better than the rest. And the Berbers who live in the place are very unruly.
8. After Avalites there is another market-town, better than this, called Malao, distant a sail of about eight hundred stadia. The anchorage is an open roadstead, sheltered by a spit running out from the east. Here the natives are more peaceable. There are imported into this place the things already mentioned, and many tunics, cloaks from Arsinoe, dressed and dyed; drinking-cups, sheets of soft copper in small quantity, iron, and gold and silver coin, not much. There are exported from these places myrrh, a little frankincense, (that known as far-side), the harder cinnamon, duaca, Indian copal and macir, which are imported into Arabia; and slaves, but rarely.
9. Two days' sail, or three, beyond Malao is the market-town of Mundus, where the ships lie at anchor more safely behind a projecting island close to the shore. There are imported into this place the things previously set forth, and from it likewise are exported the merchandise already stated, and the incense called mocrotu. And the traders living here are more quarrelsome.
10. Beyond Mundus, sailing toward the east, after another two days' sail, or three, you reach Mosyllum, on a beach, with a bad anchorage. There are imported here the same things already mentioned, also silver plate, a very little iron, and glass. There are shipped from the place a great quantity of cinnamon, (so that this market-town requires ships of larger size), and fragrant gums, spices, a little tortoise shell, and mocrotu, (poorer, than that of Mundus), frankincense, (the far-side), ivory and myrrh in small quantities.
11. Sailing along the coast beyond Mosyllum, after a two days' course you come to the so-called Little Nile River, and a fine spring, and a small laurel-grove, and Cape Elephant. Then the shore recedes into a bay, and has a river, called Elephant, and a large laurel-grove called Acannae; where alone is produced the far-side frankincense, in great quantity and of the best grade.
12. Beyond this place, the coast trending toward the south, there is the Market and Cape of Spices, an abrupt promontory, at the very end of the Berber coast toward the east. The anchorage is dangerous at times from the ground-swell, because the place is exposed to the north. A sign of an approaching storm which is peculiar to the place, is that the deep water becomes more turbid and changes its color. When this happens they all run to a large promontory called Tabae, which offers safe shelter. There are imported into this market town the things already mentioned; and there are produced in it cinnamon (and its different varieties, gizir, asypha, areho, iriagia, and moto) and frankincense.
13. Beyond Tabae, after four hundred stadia, there is the village of Pano. And then, after sailing four hundred stadia along a promontory, toward which place the current also draws you, there is another market-town called Opone, into which the same things are imported as those already mentioned, and in it the greatest quantity of cinnamon is produced, (the arebo and moto), ind slaves of the better sort, which are brought to Egypt in increasing numbers; and a great quantity of tortoiseshell, better than that found elsewhere.
14. The voyage to all these farside market-towns is made from Egypt about the month of July, that is Epiphi. And ships are also customarily fitted out from the places across this sea, from Ariaca and Barygaza, bringing to these far-side market-towns the products of their own places; wheat, rice, clarified butter, sesame oil, cotton cloth, (the monache and the sagmatogene), and girdles, and honey from the reed called sacchari. Some make the voyage especially to these market-towns, and others exchange their cargoes while sailing along the coast. This country is not subject to a King, but each market-town is ruled by its separate chief.
15. Beyond Opone, the shore trending more toward the south, first there are the small and great bluffs of Azania; this coast is destitute of harbors, but there are places where ships can lie at anchor, the shore being abrupt; and this course is of six days, the direction being south-west. Then come the small and great beach for another six days' course and after that in order, the Courses of Azania, the first being called Sarapion and the next Nicon; and after that several rivers and other anchorages, one after the other, separately a rest and a run for each day, seven in all, until the Pyralax islands and what is called the channel; beyond which, a little to the south of south-west, after two courses of a day and night along the Ausanitic coast, is the island Menuthias, about three hundred stadia from the mainland, low and and wooded, in which there are rivers and many kinds of birds and the mountain-tortoise. There are no wild beasts except the crocodiles; but there they do not attack men. In this place there are sewed boats, and canoes hollowed from single logs, which they use for fishing and catching tortoise. In this island they also catch them in a peculiar wav, in wicker baskets, which they fasten across the channel-opening between the breakers.
16. Two days' sail beyond, there lies the very last market-town of the continent of Azania, which is called Rhapta; which has its name from the sewed boats (rhapton ploiarion) already mentioned; in which there is ivory in great quantity, and tortoise-shell. Along this coast live men of piratical habits, very great in stature, and under separate chiefs for each place. The Mapharitic chief governs it under some ancient right that subjects it to the sovereignty of the state that is become first in Arabia. And the people of Muza now hold it under his authority, and send thither many large ships; using Arab captains and agents, who are familiar with the natives and intermarry with them, and who know the whole coast and understand the language.
17. There are imported into these markets the lances made at Muza especially for this trade, and hatchets and daggers and awls, and various kinds of glass; and at some places a little wine, and wheat, not for trade, but to serve for getting the good-will of the savages. There are exported from these places a great quantity of ivory, but inferior to that of Adulis, and rhinoceros-horn and tortoise-shell (which is in best demand after that from India), and a little palm-oil.
18. And these markets of Azania are the very last of the continent that stretches down on the right hand from Berenice; for beyong these places the unexplored ocean curves around toward the west, and running along by the regions to the south of Aethiopia and Libya and Africa, it mingles with the western sea.
19. Now to the left of Berenice, sailing for two or three days from Mussel Harbor eastward across the adjacent gulf, there is another harbor and fortified place, which is called White Village, from which there is a road to Petra, which is subject to Malichas, King of the Nabataeans. It holds the position of a market-town for the small vessels sent there from Arabia; and so a centurion is stationed there as a collector of one-fourth of the merchandise imported, with an armed force, as a garrison.
20. Directly below this place is the adjoining country of Arabia, in its length bordering a great distance on the Erythraean Sea. Different tribes inhabit the country, differing in their speech, some partially, and some altogether. The land next the sea is similarly dotted here and there with caves of the Fish-Eaters, but the country inland is peopled by rascally men speaking two languages, who live in villages and nomadic camps, by whom those sailing off the middle course are plundered, and those surviving shipwrecks are taken for slaves. And so they too are continually taken prisoners by the chiefs and kings of Arabia; and they are called Carnaites. Navigation is dangerous along this whole coast of Arabia, which is without harbors, with bad anchorages, foul, inaccessible because of breakers and rocks, and terrible in every way. Therefore we hold our course down the middle of the gulf and pass on as fast as possible by the country of Arabia until we come to the Burnt Island; directly below which there are regions of peaceful people, nomadic, pasturers of cattle, sheep and camels.
21. Beyond these places, in a bay at the foot of the left side of this gulf, there is a place by the shore called Muza, a market-town established by law, distant altogether from Berenice for those sailing southward, about twelve thousand stadia. And the whole place is crowded with Arab shipowners and seafaring men, and is busy with the affairs of commerce; for they carry on a trade with the far-side coast and with Barygaza, sending their own ships there.
22. Three days inland from this port there is a city called Saua, in the midst of the region called Mapharitis; and there is a vassal-chief named Cholaebus who lives in that city.
23. And after nine days more there is Saphar, the metropolis, in which lives Charibael, lawful king of two tribes, the Homerites and those living next to them, called the Sabaites; through continual embassies and gifts, he is a friend of the Emperors.
24. The market-town of Muza is without a harbor, but has a good roadstead and anchorage because of the sandy bottom thereabouts, where the anchors hold safely. The merchandise imported there consists of purple cloths, both fine and coarse; clothing in the Arabian style, with sleeves; plain, ordinary, embroidered, or interwoven with gold; saffron, sweet rush, muslins, cloaks, blankets (not many), some plain and others made in the local fashion; sashes of different colors, fragrant ointments in moderate quantity, wine and wheat, not much. For the country produces grain in moderate amount, and a great deal of wine. And to the King and the Chief are given horses and sumpter-mules, vessels of gold and polished silver, finely woven clothing and copper vessels. There are exported from the same place the things produced in the country: selected myrrh, and the Gebanite-Minaean stacte, alabaster and all the things already mentioned from Avalites and the far-side coast. The voyage to this place is made best about the month of September, that is Thoth; but there is nothing to prevent it even earlier.
25. After sailing beyond this place about three hundred stadia, the coast of Arabia and the Berber country about the Avalitic gulf now coming close together, there is a channel, not long in extent, which forces the sea together and shuts it into a narrow strait, the passage through which, sixty stadia in length, the island Diodorus divides. Therefore the course through it is beset with rushing currents and with strong winds blowing down from the adjacent ridge of mountains. Directly on this strait by the shore there is a village of Arabs, subject to the same chief, called Ocelis; which is not so much a market-town as it is an anchorage and watering-place and the first landing for those sailing into the gulf.
26. Beyond Ocelis, the sea widening again toward the east and soon giving a view of the open ocean, after about twelve hundred stadia there is Eudaemon Arabia, a village by the shore, also of the Kingdom of Charibael, and having convenient anchorages, and watering places, sweeter and better than those at Ocelis; it lies at the entrance of a bay, and the land recedes from it. It was called Eudaemon, because in the early days of the city when the voyage was not yet made from India to Egypt, and when they did not dare to sail from Egypt to the ports across this ocean, but all came together at this place, it received the cargoes from both countries, just as Alexandria now receives the things brought both from abroad and from Egypt. But not long before our own time Charibael destroyed the place.
27. After Eudaemon Arabia there is a continuous length of coast, and a bay extending two thousand stadia or more, along which there are Nomads and Fish-Eaters living in villages; just beyond the cape projecting from this bay there is another market-town by the shore, Cana, of the Kingdom of Eleazus, the Frankincense Country; and facing it there are two desert islands, one called Island of Birds, the other Dome Island, one hundred and twenty stadia from Cana. Inland from this place lies the metropolis Sabbatha, in which the King lives. All the frankincense produced in the country is brought by camels to that place to be stored, and to Cana on rafts held up by inflated skins after the manner of the country, and in boats. And this place has a trade also with the far-side ports, with Barygaza. and Scythia and Ommana and the neighboring coast of Persia.
28. There are imported into this place from Egypt a little wheat and wine, as at Muza; clothing in the Arabian style, plain and common and most of it spurious; and copper and tin and coral and storax and other things such as go to Muza; and for the King usually wrought gold and silver plate, also horses, images, and thin clothing of fine quality. And there are exported from this place, native produce, frankincense and aloes, and the rest of the things that enter into the trade of the other ports. The voyage to this place is best made at the same time as that to Muza, or rather earlier.
29. Beyond Cana, the land receding greatly, there follows a very deep bay stretching a great way across, which is called Sachalites; and the Frankincense Country, mountainous and forbidding, wrapped in thick clouds and fog, and yielding frankincense from the trees. These incense-bearing trees are not of great height or thickness; they bear the frankincense sticking in drops on the bark, just as the trees among us in Egypt weep their gum. The frankincense is gathered by the King's slaves and those who are sent to this service for punishment. For these places are very unhealthy, and pestilential even to those sailing along the coast; but almost always fatal to those working there, who also perish often from want of food.
30. On this bay there is a very great promontory facing the east, called Syagrus; on which is a fort for the defence of the country, and a harbor and storehouse for the frankincense that is collected; and opposite this cape, well out at sea, there is an island, lying between it and the Cape of Spices opposite, but nearer Syagrus: it is called Dioscorida, and is very large but desert and marshy, having rivers in it and crocodiles and many snakes and great lizards, of which the flesh is eaten and the fat melted and used instead of olive oil. The island yields no fruit, neither vine nor grain. The inhabitants are few and they live on the coast toward the north, which from this side faces the continent. They are foreigners, a mixture of Arabs and Indians and Greeks, who have emigrated to carry on trade there. The island produces the true sea-tortoise, and the land-tortoise, and the white tortoise which is very numerous and preferred for its large shells; and the mountain-tortoise, which is largest of all and has the thickest shell; of which the worthless specimens cannot be cut apart on the under side, because they are even too hard; but those of value are cut apart and the shells made whole into caskets and small plates and cake-dishes and that sort of ware. There is also produced in this island cinnabar, that called Indian, which is collected in drops from the trees.
31. It happens that just as Azania is subject to Charibael and the Chief of Mapharitis, this island is subject to the King of the Frankincense Country. Trade is also carried on there by some people from Muza and by those who chance to call there on the voyage from Damirica and Barygaza; they bring in rice and wheat and Indian cloth, and a few female slaves; and they take for their exchange cargoes, a great quantity of tortoise-shell. Now the island is farmed out under the Kings and is garrisoned.
32. Immediately beyond Syagrus the bay of Omana cuts deep into the coast-line, the width of it being six hundred stadia; and beyond this there are mountains, high and rocky and steep, inhabited by cave-dwellers for five hundred stadia more; and beyond this is a port established for receiving the Sachalitic frankincense; the harbor is called Moscha, and ships from Cana call there regularly; and ships returning from Damirica and Barygaza, if the season is late, winter there, and trade with the King's officers, exchanging their cloth and wheat and sesame oil for frankincense, which lies in heaps all over the Sachalitic country, open and unguarded, as if the place were under the protection of the gods; for neither openly nor by stealth can it be loaded on board ship without the King's permission; if a single grain were loaded without this, the ship could not clear from the harbor.
33. Beyond the harbor of Moscha for about fifteen hundred stadia as far as Asich, a mountain range runs along the shore; at the end of which, in a row, lie seven islands, called Zenobian. Beyond these there is a barbarous region which is no longer of the same Kingdom, but now belongs to Persia. Sailing along this coast well out at sea for two thousand stadia from the Zenobian Islands, there meets you an island called Sarapis, about one hundred and twenty stadia from the mainland. It is about two hundred stadia wide and six hundred long, inhabited by three settlements of Fish-Eaters, a villainous lot, who use the Arabian language and wear girdles of palm-leaves. The island produces considerable tortoise-shell of fine quality, and small sailboats and cargo-ships are sent there regularly from Cana.
34. Sailing along the coast, which trends northward toward the entrance of the Persian Sea, there are many islands known as the Calxi, after about two thousand stadia, extending along the shore. The inhabitants are a treacherous lot, very little civilized.
35. At the upper end of these Calaei islands is a range of mountains called Calon, and there follows not far beyond, the mouth of the Persian Gulf, where there is much diving for the pearl-mussel. To the left of the straits are great mountains called Asabon, and to the right there rises in full view another round and high mountain called Semiramis; between them the passage across the strait is about six hundred stadia; beyond which that very great and broad sea, the Persian Gulf, reaches far into the interior. At the upper end of this Gulf there is a market-town designated by law called Apologus, situated near Charax Spasini and the River Euphrates.
36. Sailing through the mouth of the Gulf, after a six-days' course there is another market-town of Persia called Ommana. To both of these market-towns large vessels are regularly sent from Barygaza, loaded with copper and sandalwood and timbers of teakwood and logs of blackwood and ebony. To Ommana frankincense is also brought from Cana, and from Ommana to Arabia boats sewed together after the fashion of the place; these are known as madarata. From each of these market-towns, there are exported to Barygaza and also to Arabia, many pearls, but inferior to those of lndia; purple, clothing after the fashion of the place, wine, a great quantity of dates, gold and slaves.
37. Beyond the Ommanitic region there is a country also of the Parsids, of another Kingdom, and the bay of Gedrosia, from the middle of which a cape juts out into the bay. Here there is a river affording an entrance for ships, with a little market-town at the mouth, called Oraea; and back from the place an inland city, distant a seven days' journey from the sea, in which also is the King's court; it is called ----- (probably Rhambacia). This country yields much, wheat, wine, rice and dates; but along the coast there is nothing but bdellium.
38. Beyond this region, the continent making a wide curve from the east across the depths of the bays, there follows the coast district of Scythia, which lies above toward the north; the whole marshy; from which flows down the river Sinthus, the greatest of all the rivers that flow into the Erythraean Sea, bringing down an enormous volume of water; so that a long. way out at sea, before reaching this country, the water of the ocean is fresh from it. Now as a sign of approach to this country to those coming from the sea, there are serpents coming forth from the depths to meet you; and a sign of the places just mentioned and in Persia, are those called graoe. This river has seven mouths, very shallow and marshy, so that they are not navigable, except the one in the middle; at which by the shore, is the market-town, Barbaricum. Before it there lies a small island, and inland behind it is the metropolis of Scythia, Minnagara; it is subject to Parthian princes who are constantly driving each other out.
39. The ships lie at anchor at Barbaricum, but all their cargoes are carried up to the metropolis by the river, to the King. There are imported into this market a great deal of thin clothing, and a little spurious; figured linens, topaz, coral, storax, frankincense, vessels of glass, silver and gold plate, and a little wine. On the other hand there are exported costus, bdellium, lycium, nard, turquoise, lapis lazuli, Seric skins, cotton cloth, silk yarn, and indigo. And sailors set out thither with the Indian Etesian winds, about the, month of July, that is Epiphi: it is more dangerous then, but through these winds the voyage is more direct, and sooner completed.
40. Beyond the river Sinthus there is another gulf, not navigable, running in toward the north; it is called Eirinon; its parts are called separately the small gulf and the great; in both parts the water is shallow, with shifting sandbanks occurring continually and a great way from shore; so that very often when the shore is not even in sight, ships run aground, and if they attempt to hold their course they are wrecked. A promontory stands out from this gulf, curving around from Eirinon toward the East, then South, then West, and enclosing the gulf called Baraca, which contains seven islands. Those who come to the entrance of this bay escape it by putting about a little and standing further out to sea; but those who are drawn inside into the gulf of Baraca are lost; for the waves are high and very violent, and the sea is tumultuous and foul, and has eddies and rushing whirlpools. The bottom is in some places abrupt, and in others rocky and sharp, so that the anchors lying there are parted, some being quickly cut off, and others chafing on the bottom. As a sign of these places to those approaching from the sea there are serpents, very large and black; for at the other places on this coast and around Barygazal, they are smaller, and in color bright green, running into gold.
41. Beyond the gulf of Baraca is that of Barygaza and the coast of the country of Ariaca, which is the beginning of the Kingdom of Nambanus and of all India. That part of it lying inland and adjoining Scythia is called Abiria, but the coast is called Syrastrene. It is a fertile country, yielding wheat and rice and sesame oil and clarified butter, cotton and the Indian cloths made therefrom, of the coarser sorts. Very many cattle are pastured there, and the men are of great stature and black in color. The metropolis of this country is Minnagara, from which much cotton cloth is brought down to Barygaza. In these places there remain even to the present time signs of the expedition of Alexander, such as ancient shrines, walls of forts and great wells. The sailing course along this coast, from Barbaricum to the promontory called Papica opposite Barygaza, and before Astacampra, is of three thousand stadia.
42. Beyond this there is another gulf exposed to the sea-waves, running up toward the north, at the mouth of which there is an island called Baeones; at its innermost part there is a great river called Mais. Those sailing to Barygaza pass across this gulf, which is three hundred stadia in width, leaving behind to their left the island just visible from their tops toward the east, straight to the very mouth of the river of Barygaza; and this river is called Nammadus.
43. This gulf is very narrow to Barygaza and very hard to navigate for those coming from the ocean; this is the case with both the right and left passages, but there is a better passage through the left. For on the right at the very mouth of the gulf there lies a shoal, long and narrow, and full of rocks, called Herone, facing the village of Cammoni; and opposite this on the left projects the promontory that lies before Astacampra, which is called Papica, and is a bad anchorage because of the strong current setting in around it and because the anchors are cut off, the bottom being rough and rocky. And even if the entrance to the gulf is made safely, the mouth of the river at Barygaza is found with difficulty, because the shore is very low and cannot be made out until you are close upon it. And when, you have found it the passage is difficult because of the shoals at the mouth of the river.
44. Because of this, native fishermen in the King's service, stationed at the very entrance in well-manned large boats called tappaga and cotymba, go up the coast as far as Syrastrene, from which they pilot vessels to Barygaza. And they steer them straight from the mouth of the bay between the shoals with their crews; and they tow them to fixed stations, going up with the beginning of the flood, and lying through the ebb at anchorages and in basins. These basins are deeper places in the river as far as Barygaza; which lies by the river, about three hundred stadia up from the mouth.
45. Now the whole country of India has very many rivers, and very great ebb and flow of the tides; increasing at the new moon, and at the full moon for three days, and falling off during the intervening days of the moon. But about Barygaza it is much greater, so that the bottom is suddenly seen, and now parts of the dry land are sea, and now it is dry where ships were sailing just before; and the rivers, under the inrush of the flood tide, when the whole force of the sea is directed against them, are driven upwards more strongly against their natural current, for many stadia.
46. For this reason entrance and departure of vessels is very dangerous to those who are inexperienced or who come to this market-town for the first time. For the rush of waters at the incoming tide is irresistible, and the anchors cannot hold against it; so that large ships are caught up by the force of it, turned broadside on through the speed of the current, and so driven on the shoals and wrecked; and smaller boats are overturned; and those that have been turned aside among the channels by the receding waters at the ebb, are left on their sides, and if not held on an even keel by props, the flood tide comes upon them suddenly and under the first head of the current they are filled with water. For there is so great force in the rush of the sea at the new moon, especially during the flood tide at night, that if you begin the entrance at the moment when the waters are still, on the instant there is borne to you at the mouth of the river, a noise like the cries of an army heard from afar; and very soon the sea itself comes rushing in over the shoals with a hoarse roar.
47. The country inland from Barygaza is inhabited by numerous tribes, such as the Arattii, the Arachosii, the Gandaraei and the people of Poclais, in which is Bucephalus Alexandria. Above these is the very warlike nation of the Bactrians, who are under their own king. And Alexander, setting out from these parts, penetrated to the Ganges, leaving aside Damirica and the southern part of India; and to the present day ancient drachmae are current in Barygaza, coming from this country, bearing inscriptions in Greek letters, and the devices of those who reigned after Alexander, Apollodorus and Menander.
48. Inland from this place and to the east, is the city called Ozene, formerly a royal capital; from this place are brought down all things needed for the welfare of the country about Barygaza, and many things for our trade: agate and carnelian, Indian muslins and mallow cloth, and much ordinary cloth. Through this same region and from the upper country is brought the spikenard that comes through Poclais; that is, the Caspapyrene and Paropanisene and Cabolitic and that brought through the adjoining country of Scythia; also costus and bdellium.
49. There are imported into this market-town, wine, Italian preferred, also Laodicean and Arabian; copper, tin, and lead; coral and topaz; thin clothing and inferior sorts of all kinds; bright-colored girdles a cubit wide; storax, sweet clover, flint glass, realgar, antimony, gold and silver coin, on which there is a profit when exchanged for the money of the country; and ointment, but not very costly and not much. And for the King there are brought into those places very costly vessels of silver, singing boys, beautiful maidens for the harem, fine wines, thin clothing of the finest weaves, and the choicest ointments. There are exported from these places spikenard, costus, bdellium, ivory, agate and carnelian, lycium, cotton cloth of all kinds, silk cloth, mallow cloth, yarn, long pepper and such other things as are brought here from the various market-towns. Those bound for this market-town from Egypt make the voyage favorably about the month of July, that is Epiphi.
50. Beyond Barygaza the adjoining coast extends in a straight line from north to south; and so this region is called Dachinabades, for dachanos in the language of the natives means 'south.' The inland country back from the coast toward the east comprises many desert regions and great mountains; and all kinds of wild beasts -- leopards, tigers, elephants, enormous serpents, hyenas, and baboons of many sorts; and many populous nations, as far as the Ganges.
51. Among the market-towns of Dachinabades there are two of special importance; Paethana, distant about twenty days' journey south from Barygaza; beyond which, about ten days' journey east, there is another very great city, Tagara. There are brought down to Barygaza from these places by wagons and through great tracts without roads, from Paethana carnelian in great quantity, and from Tagara much common cloth, all kinds of muslins and mallow cloth, and other merchandise brought there locally from the regions along the sea-coast. And the whole course to the end of Damirica is seven thousand stadia; but the distance is greater to the Coast Country.
52. The market-towns of this region are, in order, after Barygaza: Suppara, and the city of Calliena, which in the time of the elder Saraganus became a lawful market-town; but since it came into the possession of Sandares the port is much obstructed, and Greek ships landing there may chance to be taken to Barygaza under guard.
53. Beyond Calliena there are other market-towns of this region; Semylla, Mandagora, Palaepatmoe, Melizigara, Byzantium, Togarum and Aurannoboas. Then there are the islands called Sesecrienae and that of the Aegidii, and that of the Caenitae, opposite the place called Chersonesus (and in these places there are pirates), and after this the White Island. Then come Naura and Tyndis, the first markets of Damirica, and then Muziris and Nelcynda, which are now of leading importance.
54. Tyndis is of the Kingdom of Cerobothra; it is a village in plain sight by the sea. Muziris, of the same kingdom, abounds in ships sent there with cargoes from Arabia, and by the Greeks; it is located on a river, distant from Tyndis by river and sea five hundred stadia, and up the river from the shore twenty stadia. Nelcynda is distant from Muziris by river and sea about five hundred stadia, and is of another Kingdom, the Pandian. This place also is situated on a river, about one hundred and twenty stadia from the sea.
55. There is another place at the mouth of this river, the village of Bacare, to which ships drop down on the outward voyage from Nelcynda, and anchor in the roadstead to take on their cargoes; because the river is full of shoals and the channels are not clear. The kings of both these market-towns live in the interior. And as a sign to those approaching these places from the sea there are serpents coming forth to meet you, black in color, but shorter, like snakes in the head, and with blood-red eyes.
56. They send large ships to these market-towns on account of the great quantity and bulk of pepper and malabathrum. There are imported here, in the first place, a great quantity of coin; topaz, thin clothing, not much; figured linens, antimony, coral, crude glass, copper, tin, lead; wine, not much, but as much as at Barygaza; realgar and orpiment; and wheat enough for the sailors, for this is not dealt in by the merchants there. There is exported pepper, which is produced in quantity in only one region near these markets, a district called Cottonara. Besides this there are exported great quantities of fine pearls, ivory, silk cloth, spikenard from the Ganges, malabathrum from the places in the interior, transparent stones of' all kinds, diamonds and sapphires, and tortoise-shell; that from Chryse Island, and that taken among the islands along the coast of Damirica. They make the voyage to this place in a favorable season who set out from Egypt about the month of July, that is Epiphi.
57. This whole voyage as above described, from Cana and Eudaemon Arabia, they used to make in small vessels, sailing close around the shores of the gulfs; and Hippalus was the pilot who by observing the location of the ports and the conditions of the sea, first discovered how to lay his course straight across the ocean. For at the same time when with us the Etesian winds are blowing, on the shores of India the wind sets in from the ocean, and this southwest wind is called Hippalus, from the name of him who first discovered the passage across. From that time to the present day ships start, some direct from Cana, and some from the Cape of Spices; and those bound for Damirica throw the shlp's head considerably off the wind; while those bound for Barygaza and Scythia keep along shore not more than three days and for the rest of the time hold the same course straight out to sea from that region, with a favorable wind, quite away from the land, and so sail outside past the aforesaid gulfs.
58. Beyond Bacare there is the Dark Red Mountain, and another district stretching along the coast toward the south, called Paralia. The first place is called Balita; it has a fine harbor and a village by the shore. Beyond this there is another place called Comari, at which are the Cape of Comari and a harbor; hither come those men who wish to consecrate themselves for the rest of their lives, and bathe and dwell in celibacy; and women also do the same; for it is told that a goddess once dwelt here and bathed.
59. From Comari toward the south this region extends to Colchi, where the pearl-fisheries are; (they are worked by condemned criminals); and it belongs to the Pandian Kingdom. Beyond Colchi there follows another district called the Coast Country, which lies on a bay, and has a region inland called Argaru. At this place, and nowhere else, are bought the pearls gathered on the coast thereabouts; and from there are exported muslins, those called Argaritic.
60. Among the market-towns of these countries, and the harbors where the ships put in from Damirica and from the north, the most important are, in order as they lie, first Camara, then Poduca, then Sopatma; in which there are ships of the country coasting along the shore as far as Damirica; and other very large vessels made of single logs bound together, called sangara; but those which make the voyage to Chryse and to the Ganges are called colandia, and are very large. There are imported into these places everything made in Damirica, and the greatest part of what is brought at any time from Egypt comes here, together with most kinds of all the things that are brought from Damirica and of those that are carried through Paralia.
61. About the following region, the course trending toward the east, lying out at sea toward the west is the island Palaesimundu, called by the ancients Taprobane. The northern part is a day's journey distant, and the southern part trends gradually toward the west, and almost touches the opposite shore of Azania. It produces pearls, transparent stones, muslins, and tortoise-shell.
62. About these places is the region of Masalia stretching a great way along the coast before the inland country; a great quantity of muslins is made there. Beyond this region, sailing toward the cast and crossing the adjacent bay, there is the region of Dosarene, yielding the ivory known as Dosarenic. Beyond this, the course trending toward the north, there are many barbarous tribes, among whom are the Cirrhadae, a race of men with flattened noses, very savage; another tribe, the Bargysi; and the Horse-faces and the Long-faces, who are said to be cannibals.
63. After these, the course turns toward the east again, and sailing with the ocean to the right and the shore remaining beyond to the left, Ganges comes into view, and near it the very last land toward the east, Chryse. There is a river near it called the Ganges, and it rises and falls in the same way as the Nile. On its bank is a market-town which has the same name as the river, Ganges. Through this place are brought malabathrum and Gangetic spikenard and pearls, and rnuslins of the finest sorts, which are called Gangetic. It is said that there are gold-mines near these places, and there is a gold coin which is called caltis. And just opposite this river there is an island in the ocean, the last part of the inhabited world toward the cast, under the rising sun itself; it is called Chryse; and it has the best tortoise-shell of all the places on the Erythraean Sea.
64. After this region under the very north, the sea outside ending in a land called This, there is a very great inland city called Thinae, from which raw silk and silk yarn and silk cloth are brought on foot through Bactria to Barygaza, and are also exported to Damirica by way of the river Ganges. But the land of This is not easy of access; few men come from there, and seldom. The country lies under the Lesser Bear, and is said to border on the farthest parts of Pontus and the Caspian Sea, next to which lies Lake Maeotis; all of which empty into the ocean.
65. Every year on the borders of the land of This there comes together a tribe of men with short bodies and broad, flat faces, and by nature peaceable; they are called Besatae, and are almost entirely uncivilized. They come with their wives and children, carrying great packs and plaited baskets of what looks like green grape-leaves. They meet in a place between their own country and the land of This. There they hold a feast for several days, spreading out the baskets under themselves as mats, and then return to their own places in the interior. And then the natives watching them come into that place and gather up their mats; and they pick out from the braids the fibers which they call petri. They lay the leaves closely together in several layers and make them into balls, which they pierce with the fibers from the mats. And there are three sorts; those made of the largest leaves are called the large-ball malabathrum; those of the smaller, the medium-ball; and those of the smallest, the small-ball. Thus there exist three sorts of malabathrum, and it is brought into India by those who prepare it.
66. The regions beyond these places are either difficult of access because of their excessive winters and great cold, or else cannot be sought out because, of some divine influence of the gods.
Source:
W.H. Schoff (tr. & ed.), The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century (London, Bombay & Calcutta 1912).
I believe that the first trading centers in East Africa were founded by Axumites. These Axumites probably founded colonies around the time they took control of Yemen,Iran, India and later parts of South America. In this way the Axumites would have been able to maintain control of trade in these areas.
Later, Bantu speakers were probably integrated into the trade centers founded by the Axunites. This would explain the origin of the Swahili language.
If you look at the history of East Africa from this perspective the return of Yemenis and Persians to the Swahili cities would have been people whoes ancestors were originally Axumites.
A good analogy would be the English speakers who have colonied Australia, the U.S.A.,New Zealand and etc. If they return to England or Scotland to live in property owned by their ancestors they are called Americans and etc.
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Son of Ra Member # 20401
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@Lioness
I've heard of Rhapta. I was suppose to have been a very successful and populous marketplace. But I believe its location has not really been identified Anyways thanks for your two cents and source for this discussion. Still reading....Interesting read.
@Clyde Winters
I don't believe the people of Axumite went that far into the interior of Africa. I definitely don't think they had colonies in Africa. Also the Swahili language doesn't seen to have any Ge'ez dialects, which is probably the language the people of Axum spoke. The Swahili language seems mostly Bantu with some Arabic words.
Firewall Member # 20331
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Clyde Winters rewriting history again.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: @Lioness
I've heard of Rhapta. I was suppose to have been a very successful and populous marketplace. But I believe its location has not really been identified Anyways thanks for your two cents and source for this discussion. Still reading....Interesting read.
@Clyde Winters
I don't believe the people of Axumite went that far into the interior of Africa. I definitely don't think they had colonies in Africa. Also the Swahili language doesn't seen to have any Ge'ez dialects, which is probably the language the people of Axum spoke. The Swahili language seems mostly Bantu with some Arabic words.
LOL. You're ignorant about linguistic and semitic languages. Swahili is made up of Bantu words and basic semitic words. Semitic languages have a basic vacabullary shared by all of the languages, items from these basic terms are found in Swahili.
Also, we are not talking about the interior of Africa. LOL, we are talking about the cities along the coast which were probably first founded by Axumite merchants.
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Clyde Winters Member # 10129
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Clyde Winters rewriting history again.
LOL. That's what historians do. They look at the evidence and make interpretations of the data--based on the primary and secondary soures.
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Son of Ra Member # 20401
posted
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: @Lioness
I've heard of Rhapta. I was suppose to have been a very successful and populous marketplace. But I believe its location has not really been identified Anyways thanks for your two cents and source for this discussion. Still reading....Interesting read.
@Clyde Winters
I don't believe the people of Axumite went that far into the interior of Africa. I definitely don't think they had colonies in Africa. Also the Swahili language doesn't seen to have any Ge'ez dialects, which is probably the language the people of Axum spoke. The Swahili language seems mostly Bantu with some Arabic words.
LOL. You're ignorant about linguistic and semitic languages. Swahili is made up of Bantu words and basic semitic words. Semitic languages have a basic vacabullary shared by all of the languages, items from these basic terms are found in Swahili.
Also, we are not talking about the interior of Africa. LOL, we are talking about the cities along the coast which were probably first founded by Axumite merchants.
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Stop trolling. Didn't I freaking state Swahili language had some Arabic words? Isn't Arabic semitic???
No shcit we'e talking cities of the coast. Which were first inhabited by Bantu people from the interior. Again where is your proof people from Axumite settled that far down Southeast Africa?There are no historic sources that state such. And I want REAL sources by people that are actually credible. Like Firewall stated, stop trying the rewrite history.
We already know the first inhabitants of the Swahili coast were those of Bantu origins from the interior via the Bantu migration. But the question is and the purpose of this thread is who was responsible for the development of the Swahili civilization? Who actually controlled the coastal cities? There are no evidence of Swahili people being of Cushite origins.
Sundjata Member # 13096
posted
You should read Felix Chami, who is one of the few prominent Black archaeologists and also Swahili. Here's what he has to say on the matter:
quote:The Origin of The Swahili Towns Scholars had, up to the end of the twentieth century, debated the origin of the Swahili people and their stone town culture. Such debates revolved on the question of who the Swahili people were (Allen 1974, 1983; Nurse and Spear 1985; Pouwels 1987; Horton 1987; and Chami 1994, 1998). The original popular conception was that the Swahili people and their culture originated from the Middle East. These were alleged to have arrived in waves of immigration. Individuals in these waves founded settlements, which later grew into larger Swahili stone towns. Chittick (1974, 1975) used chronicles, particularly that of Kilwa, and archaeology to argue that the earliest immigrants could have arrived on the East African coast not earlier that the ninth century. This view suggested, therefore, that the Swahili people were originally Persians or Arabs who would later have mixed with Africans. Due to their alleged origin in the Muslim world the Swahili people were necessarily Muslims and people of towns.
Archaeologists such as Horton (1987), influenced by Allen (1983), suggested that the Swahili were people of Cushitic origin, from the northeast of Africa, who were originally pastoralists. The pastoralists, who are alleged to have ruled the Bantu speakers in a mythical land called Shunguaya, mixed with Bantu speakers, adopted Islam and spread to the rest of the coast and islands of East Africa. In this theory the Swahili people are seen as Africans who also mixed with the people of the Middle East in the process of adopting Islam and trade. This position was made more prominent in the 1990s (Horton 1990; Abungu 1994–1995; Sutton 1994–1995) in an attempt to quash the discovery that the Swahili people were Africans of Bantu origin, people of the general region of Eastern and Southern Africa who were agriculturalists and fishermen.
That the Swahili people did speak a Bantu language was a point recognised by linguists from the 1980s (Nurse and Spear 1985). Archaeologists had also established settlements of Early Iron Working people near the coast; scholars recognised that they were early Bantu speakers (Soper 1971; Phillipson 1977). Historians also recognised that the people reported by the Romans in the first centuries AD to have inhabited East Africa, then known as Azania, were agriculturalists and probably Bantu speaking (Casson 1989). In the early 1990s this author suggested that the cultural tradition found in the earliest Swahili settlements was culturally related to that of the Early Iron Working tradition (Chami 1994). In some cases settlements of the Early Iron Working people and those of the so‐called early Swahili, termed by this author as Triangular Incised Ware tradition, were found in the same location. In some cases the later was found superimposed over the former in the offshore islands and on the coastal littoral of the central coast of Tanzania (Chami 1998, 1999a).
The evidence of cultural continuity from the time of Christ, through the mid‐first millennium AD, to the time of the foundation of the Swahili towns in the early centuries of the second millennium AD, has now been recognised by many scholars (Kusimba 1999; Sinclair and Hakansson 2000; Spear 2000). Those who disagreed with the the first set of evidence for this continuity have now revised their ideas (Horton 1996; Horton and Middleton 2000; Sutton 1998). Archaeological findings now prove that the Swahili coast had been settled by an agricultural and trading population from the time of Pharaonic Egypt, 3000 BCE, through the Greaco‐Roman period (Chami 2006). Whereas the former was of Neolithic tradition, the latter was an Early Iron Working culture. Throughout these periods the Indian Ocean, just like it was during the time of Islam, had brisk trade with communities of Asia, the Middle East and the Red Sea/Mediterranean worlds. Ceramics and beads as evidence of trade of all these pre‐Islamic trading periods have now been recovered from the islands of Zanzibar, Mafia, Kilwa and Rufiji River (for conspectus see Chami 1999b, 2004, 2006).
The most recent thinking that the early Swahili people, or Zanj of the Arab documents, were Indonesians/Austronesians (Dick‐Read 2005) is an attempt to disregard the archaeological, linguistic and historical data already established. For this recent thinking to be regarded as scientific at least a discussion of the previous thinking on the subject matter and its flaws should have be debated.
Some Cultural Aspects of the Swahili Towns General Culture The culture of the Swahili towns, as already suggested, is African with an infusion of Islamic traits. It is these infused Islamic traits such as religion, law, language, writing and costume which have made many students of the Swahili culture identify the people as Arabs. The people who had adopted this culture themselves wanted to be identified as Arabs or Persians. However, Ibn Baṭṭūṭa identified the people as ‘Sawahil’ and the earliest European visitors to the Swahili world, the Portuguese, identified the people as ‘Moors’ or ‘Suaili’ as opposed to Arabs.
De Barros, as Ibn Baṭṭūṭa did, also identified the Sultans of Kilwa as black people (Chittick 1975: 39). Barbosa, writing in about 1518, wrote, “Of the Moors there are some fair and some black, they are finely clad in many rich garments of gold and silk and cotton.” To show that the Swahilis were different from Arabs, the Queen of Kilwa in the mid‐eighteenth century wrote a letter calling home her people who had run away from the Arab/Omani domination of Kilwa to Mozambique. This was written in Kiswahili and not in Arabic; a Swahili letter suggesting that it was only the Europeans/Christians who were in conflict with the Arabs, but not the African/Swahili people (Omar and Frankl 1994).
Encyclopaedia of the History of Science, Technology, and Medicine in Non-Western Cultures Springer-Verlag Berlin Heidelberg New York 2008 10.1007/978-1-4020-4425-0_8504 Helaine Selin
Cities and Towns in East Africa Felix Chami
Son of Ra Member # 20401
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^^^Great post! From the source you cited I think the origin of confusion is that Swahili people choose to identify as Arab or Persian.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
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Can you please remove the pic please...
the lioness, Member # 17353
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Son of Ra send a message to ausar to delete the giant post. Indicate forum Egyptology and title of thread.
White Nubian is a facist. He's against free speech and labels any mention of African history is "afrocentric".
He simply hates black people and wants to wipe out all our history except as slaves
Son of Ra Member # 20401
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^^^I already did.
This is the absolute reason why I made those forums!
mena7 Member # 20555
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Lioness nice map of Erythrean sea trade routes, countries and cities.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
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Anyways back on topic. I requested Ausar to remove the large image.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
Son of Ra you are an ignorant moron. Yes Bantu would have been in East Africa, but that does not mean they founded the trading centers. The fact that Swahili is a lingua franca makes it is clear that the Bantu found it in their interest to adopt Swahili to trade more effectively with the Habashan/Sabaeans/Axumites who developed the trade network.
In summary, the historical evidence support an old presence of Ethio-Semitic in Africa. For example, the Axumite Empire was founded by the Habashan. the habashan are mentioned in a 3rd or 4th century Himyarite inscription from South Arabia, which refers to an alliance between Gadarat King of the Habashan or Habashat.
Some of the people of Punt were probably Tigrinya speakers, who call their language habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. The term Habesh, seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia and may be connected with the Amharic word washa 'cave or cavern', and may refer to the" cave dwellers" who once served as the principal traders along the Ethiopian coast. The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.
In addition, some of the earliest Sabean/Thamudic inscriptions have been found in Ethiopia, and not South Arabia. For example, Dr. Doresse has found Sabean cursive writing on a sceptre that indicates that the Habashat/Axumite empire had writing.
These Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty (1709-1320) in connection to the land of Punt. Given the Egyptian association of the Habashan with Punt, I call the speakers of the Ethio-Semitic languages: Puntites. We have Egyptian evidence of trade missions to Punt as early as PepiII in 2400 BC and Mentuholep IV and IV. The vizier Amenemhat, of Mentuholep IV is said to have established a port near Safaga. the most famous mission to Punt was sent by Queen Hatshepsut, and is recorded at deir el Bahri. Since the Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian documents they were in existence long before the Arabic speakers.
Given the evidence, I am making only one claim: archaeological evidence indicate that the Oldest Sabaean inscriptions are found in Ethiopia, along with monumental architecture. This means only one thing: Sabaean writing was invented by the Ethiopians who took the writing to Yemen, no matter what some experts claim. It further supports the view that the Habashan or Sabaeans would have laid the foundation for the Swahili cities.
The archaeology does not indicate a higher civilization in Yemen than in Ethiopia. All the archaeological data indicate that Ethiopian civilizations were homegrown and taken to Yemen by ancient Ethiopians who probably founded Saba or Sheba.
Civilization originated in Africa, not Yemen.The parameter(s) I use ito identify a cultural tradition first occurs,temporally , it is that place where the cultural complex originated. In relation to Ethiopia we find three things: 1) a long tradition of statehood (Egyptian and Ethiopian records), 2) early engagement in trade (Sumerian and Egyptian text discussing the Puntite and Meluhha civilizations), and 3) oldest evidence of writing existing in Ethiopia (Drewes 1962), not Yemen. Put these elements together we have to acknowledge that the Sabaeans and their writing probably originated in Ethiopia not Yemen.
This means that the Mapharitic king was of Habashan origin. The Habashan founded the Axumite Empire and also probably established the first trading centers along the East African coast that evolved into the Swahili cities.
.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
posted
^^^^Stop trolling you annoying twat. I already made it clear that I'm ignoring you. None of which you post barely if at all has anything to do with the Swahili civilization. Again all you're doing is posting SPECULATIONS, none of which you post even specifically states the Swahili states were controlled by the Aksumite empire. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THE AXUMITE EMPIRE EXTENDED THAT FAR!
Again stop with the nonsense.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: ^^^^Stop trolling you annoying twat. I already made it clear that I'm ignoring you. None of which you post barely if at all has anything to do with the Swahili civilization. Again all you're doing is posting SPECULATIONS, none of which you post even specifically states the Swahili states were controlled by the Aksumite empire. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THE AXUMITE EMPIRE EXTENDED THAT FAR!
Again stop with the nonsense.
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: ^^^^No how stupid can YOU be. Again NONE of your sources state the Axumite empire was responsible for the Swahili civilization development. All you're doing is speculating with no real confirmation.
The Swahili civilization started to take root until the 10th century, long after the start of the Axumite empire. You still can't explain why the Swahili language is mostly a Bantu language with NOOO Ethiopian words but Arabs. Again stop with your nonsense. All you're doing is speculating. I leave you to your nonsense. I'm going back to my thread.
LOL. East African trade with the rest of the world did not begin in the 10th century.
Son of Ra you are an ignorant moron. Yes Bantu would have been in East Africa, but that does not mean they founded the trading centers. The fact that Swahili is a lingua franca makes it is clear that the Bantu found it in their interest to adopt Swahili to trade more effectively with the Habashan/Sabaeans/Axumites who developed the trade network.
In summary, the historical evidence support an old presence of Ethio-Semitic in Africa. For example, the Axumite Empire was founded by the Habashan. the habashan are mentioned in a 3rd or 4th century Himyarite inscription from South Arabia, which refers to an alliance between Gadarat King of the Habashan or Habashat.
Some of the people of Punt were probably Tigrinya speakers, who call their language habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. The term Habesh, seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia and may be connected with the Amharic word washa 'cave or cavern', and may refer to the" cave dwellers" who once served as the principal traders along the Ethiopian coast. The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.
In addition, some of the earliest Sabean/Thamudic inscriptions have been found in Ethiopia, and not South Arabia. For example, Dr. Doresse has found Sabean cursive writing on a sceptre that indicates that the Habashat/Axumite empire had writing.
These Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty (1709-1320) in connection to the land of Punt. Given the Egyptian association of the Habashan with Punt, I call the speakers of the Ethio-Semitic languages: Puntites. We have Egyptian evidence of trade missions to Punt as early as PepiII in 2400 BC and Mentuholep IV and IV. The vizier Amenemhat, of Mentuholep IV is said to have established a port near Safaga. the most famous mission to Punt was sent by Queen Hatshepsut, and is recorded at deir el Bahri. Since the Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian documents they were in existence long before the Arabic speakers.
Given the evidence, I am making only one claim: archaeological evidence indicate that the Oldest Sabaean inscriptions are found in Ethiopia, along with monumental architecture. This means only one thing: Sabaean writing was invented by the Ethiopians who took the writing to Yemen, no matter what some experts claim. It further supports the view that the Habashan or Sabaeans would have laid the foundation for the Swahili cities.
The archaeology does not indicate a higher civilization in Yemen than in Ethiopia. All the archaeological data indicate that Ethiopian civilizations were homegrown and taken to Yemen by ancient Ethiopians who probably founded Saba or Sheba.
Civilization originated in Africa, not Yemen.The parameter(s) I use ito identify a cultural tradition first occurs,temporally , it is that place where the cultural complex originated. In relation to Ethiopia we find three things: 1) a long tradition of statehood (Egyptian and Ethiopian records), 2) early engagement in trade (Sumerian and Egyptian text discussing the Puntite and Meluhha civilizations), and 3) oldest evidence of writing existing in Ethiopia (Drewes 1962), not Yemen. Put these elements together we have to acknowledge that the Sabaeans and their writing probably originated in Ethiopia not Yemen.
This means that the Mapharitic king was of Habashan origin. The Habashan founded the Axumite Empire and also probably established the first trading centers along the East African coast that evolved into the Swahili cities.
This makes it clear the Zanji traded with other countries in the Indian Ocean up to the Atlantic Slave trade and European (Portuguese) colonialism.
.
.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
posted
^^^^Can you please get off my thread. You're posting the same things over and over again which doesn't even prove your point. Get lost...
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
Son of Ra please read my Peoples of Azania thread.
third paragraph:
" The cause of Black nationalism was supported outside South Africa by Kwame Nkrumah, who hosted an All-African Peoples Conference in 1957 after he became the first Black President of Ghana. Nkrumah was born near Axim, a name which recalls the great ancient city of Axum in Abyssinia, said by Cosmas Indicopleustes, a geographer of the sixth century AD, to have controlled the trade with the north-east coast of Africa, known to him by the name Azania. Axim in Ghana had been the stronghold of the Pan-African Movement during the proceedings of the National Congress of British West Africa in March 1920 at Accra.(8) Nkrumah also hosted a subsequent All- African Peoples Conference at Accra in December 1958 at which the name Azania was proposed as a replacement for the name South Africa.(9)"
-Just Call Me Jari- Member # 14451
posted
something I wrote on the swahili..
African Trade Routes: The Swahili
Many historians will talk about African cultures such as Egypt, Nubia, Mali, Songhai etc. yet will over look what role these Africans played in the development of Trade Routes and how Africans many times developed their own routes of Trade via the Ocean, Rivers and across deserts. Here is an In depth look at some of the most over looked trade hubs of African History.
The Swahili
The Swahili people are a Bantu Speaking people on the Eastern Coast of Africa, mainly Tanzania, Kenya, and Mozambique. The Swahili people developed trade networks in one of the most important trade routes in the world, the Indian Sea Trade.
The Culture of the Swahili is one of Intermarriage. The Local Bantu Africans developed Trade with Arabs, Persians, Indians, and eventually Western Europeans beginning with the Portugese and later the British. Due to the diversity of cultures and people who traded with the Swahili, intermarriage, and her important position in the Indian Sea Trade, the Local Bantu's developed a unique culture and language, known as Swahili.
As expected with anything in Africa that does not resemble a "Mud Hut" or that is built of Stone, Historians and ignorant unlearned racists past and present have tried to claim the Swahili Architecture and Culture as "Arab", "Persian" or "Asiatic" with little input from the Local Africans. This is of course contrasted by the archeological and written record of Travelers to the Swahili Coast. Let us examine some of the latest findings.
Archaeological evidence proves that the Swahili developed from Cushitic Pastoralists who crossed the Rift Valley.(-Jacob L. Kimaryo*-East African Coastal Historical Towns. Asiatic or African?) This evidence further suggests that the Swahili learned and adapted non African styles of Architecture and art and incorporated these various art styles themselves into their own traditional culture and arts. In other words the Africans of the Swahili Coast developed relationships with various peoples(Indians, Persians, Chinese, etc), after traveling and trading with other cultures in foreign lands. The Swahili then hired local architects, artists and stone masons to not only build back in Africa but to teach local African architects, artists and stone masons their unique craft and style. This is no different to what countless people including Europeans, Arabs, and Persians themselves have always done in the past.
Also the notion that it was Persians and Arabs who developed the trade routes on the Swahili Coast is equally unfounded and against the evidence that proves the local Africans were long distant trading long before the advent of Islam and the arrival of Arab and Persian merchants. A Native Swahili researcher and archaeologist from the University of Dar Es Salaam, Dr. Felix Chami, has discovered an exciting find in a cave on the Island of Juani off the Tanzanian Coast. Inspired by the works of the Greek geographer Ptolemy, describing East African cities being "Metropolis" Dr. Chami has discovered items indicating long distant trade carbon dated to 600 B.C. Among the items discovered were Syrian Glass vessels, Greco-Roman Pottery, Sassanian Pottery from Persia and glass beads. (Tanzanian dig unearths ancient secret).
The Final Nail in the Coffin of the "Arab/Persian/Asian" origin of the Swahili is a pasage from the Travel Journal of the "Berber" traveler Ibn Battuta who visited "Kilwa" one of the most important cities on the Swahili Coasts..
"We ... traveled by sea to the city of Kulwa [Kilwa in East Africa]...Most of its people are Zunuj, extremely black...The city of Kulwa is amongst the most beautiful of cities and most elegantly built... Their uppermost virtue is religion and righteousness and they are Shafi'i in rite." -Ibn Battuta, A.D. 1331
Map Detailing the Trade Routes of the Indian Ocean
No only does Ibn Battuta describe the inhabitants of Kilwa as "Very Black" but also as "Zanji/Zanuuj" the Arabic word for Africans from the Swahili Coast. Where were all the Arab and Persians when Ibn Battuta visited Kilwa confirming the words of Ptolemy the geographer who also described the cities on the Swahili coast as Metropolis long before Islam. We can now dismiss any notion that non Africans had anything to do with the development of the magnificent culture of the Swahili people.
A miniature from a Persian Manuscript(Al-Maqamat) showing a Swahili(Zanji) Trading ship.-1237 C.E
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
A video about the Swahili and some other african civilizations i will post below.
On leaving Zayla we sailed for fifteen days and came to Maqdasha [Mogadishu], which is an enormous town. Its inhabitants are merchants and have many camels, of which they slaughter hundreds every day [for food]. When a vessel reaches the port, it is met by sumbuqs, which are small boats, in each of which are a number of young men, each carrying a covered dish containing food. He presents this to one of the merchants on the ship saying "This is my guest," and all the others do the same. Each merchant on disembarking goes only to the house of the young man who is his host, except those who have made frequent journeys to the town and know its people well; these live where they please. The host then sells his goods for him and buys for him, and if anyone buys anything from him at too low a price, or sells to him in the absence of his host, the sale is regarded by them as invalid. This practice is of great advantage to them.
We stayed there [in Mogadishu] three days, food being brought to us three times a day, and on the fourth, a Friday, the qadi and one of the wazirs brought me a set of garments. We then went to the mosque and prayed behind the [sultan's] screen. When the Shaykh came out I greeted him and he bade me welcome. He put on his sandals, ordering the qadi and myself to do the same, and set out for his palace on foot. All the other people walked barefooted. Over his head were carried four canopies of coloured silk, each surmounted by a golden bird. After the palace ceremonies were over, all those present saluted and retired.
Ibn Battuta sails to Mombasa pp. 112-113.
I embarked at Maqdashaw [Mogadishu] for the Sawahil [Swahili] country, with the object of visiting the town of Kulwa [Kilwa, Quiloa] in the land of the Zanj.
We came to Mambasa [Mombasa], a large island two days' journey by sea from the Sawihil country. It possesses no territory on the mainland. They have fruit trees on the island, but no cereals, which have to be brought to them from the Sawahil. Their food consists chiefly of bananas and fish.The inhabitants are pious, honourable, and upright, and they have well-built wooden mosques.
Kulwa on the African mainland
We stayed one night in this island [Mombasa], and then pursued our journey to Kulwa, which is a large town on the coast. The majority of its inhabitants are Zanj, jet-black in colour, and with tattoo marks on their faces. I was told by a merchant that the town of Sufala lies a fortnight's journey [south] from Kulwa and that gold dust is brought to Sufala from Yufi in the country of the Limis, which is a month's journey distant from it. Kulwa is a very fine and substantially built town, and all its buildings are of wood. Its inhabitants are constantly engaged in military expeditions, for their country is contiguous to the heathen Zanj.
The sultan at the time of my visit was Abu'l-Muzaffar Hasan, who was noted for his gifts and generosity. He used to devote the fifth part of the booty made on his expeditions to pious and charitable purposes, as is prescribed in the Koran, and I have seen him give the clothes off his back to a mendicant who asked him for them. When this liberal and virtuous sultan died, he was succeeded by his brother Dawud, who was at the opposite pole from him in this respect. Whenever a petitioner came to him, he would say, "He who gave is dead, and left nothing behind him to be given." Visitors would stay at his court for months on end, and finally he would make them some small gift, so that at last people gave up going to his gate.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
posted
@Lioness
Now...I just want to point this out. No one is denying the possible of Cushite type people having an influence on the Swahili civilization or help develop it. But what Clyde Winters is trying to say is that the Axumite Empire was responsible for the development of the Swahili civilization when there is no proof of that and all he posted was just speculation. The sources you posted doesn't even state the Axumite empire was responsible for the Swahili civilization and it doesn't even mention the Swahili civilization as a whole. Again not denying Cushite type people having an influence. If the Axumite empire was responsible then why weren't those early populations of Southeast Asia converted to Christianity, if the Axumite empire controlled the Swahili coast. The Axumite empire was a Christian empire.
@Jari
Thanks for adding to the thread. Will read later.
@Firewall
That video is already posted in the OP.
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
School on Pembra Ilsand, Tanzania
Pemba Island
Pemba Island, known as "The Green Island" in Arabic is an island forming part of the Zanzibar Archipelago, lying off the east coast of Africa in the Indian Ocean. It is situated about 50 kilometres (31 mi) to the north of Unguja, the largest island of the archipelago. In 1964, Zanzibar was united with the former colony of Tanganyika to form Tanzania. population of 300,000 there are rarely more than a couple of dozen foreigners
In previous years the island was seldom visited due to inaccessibility and a reputation for political violence, with the notable exception of those drawn by its reputation as a center for traditional medicine and witchcraft. There is a quite large Arab community on the island who immigrated from Oman. The population is a mix of Arab and original Waswahili inhabitants of the island. A significant portion of the population also identifies as Shirazi people.
A large proportion of the Zanzibar export earnings comes from cloves. The greatest concentration of clove trees is found on Pemba (3.5 million trees) as growing conditions here are superior to those on Unguja island. Clove trees grow to the height of around 10 to 15 metres and can produce crops for over 50 years.
More recently with the booming tourism industry in neighbouring Zanzibar, more adventurous travellers are seeking out the less-crowded Pemba, led by dive tourists seeking the uncrowded and un-spoiled reefs the island offers the experienced diver.__________________________________________________
The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century (written mid first century)
16. Two days' sail beyond, there lies the very last market-town of the continent of Azania, which is called Rhapta; which has its name from the sewed boats (rhapton ploiarion) already mentioned; in which there is ivory in great quantity, and tortoise-shell. Along this coast live men of piratical habits, very great in stature, and under separate chiefs for each place. The Mapharitic chief governs it under some ancient right that subjects it to the sovereignty of the state that is become first in Arabia. And the people of Muza now hold it under his authority, and send thither many large ships; using Arab captains and agents, who are familiar with the natives and intermarry with them, and who know the whole coast and understand the language.
_______________________________________________
African Historical Archaeologies edited by Andrew M. Reid, Paul J. Lane
read chapter 5 (V)
Swahili Archaeology and History on Pemba. Tanzania, A critique and case study on the use of Written and Oral sources on Archaeology
posted
Sorry about that. I Did not get a chance to click those links yet. My fault.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
posted
^^^NP.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
posted
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: something I wrote on the swahili..
African Trade Routes: The Swahili
Many historians will talk about African cultures such as Egypt, Nubia, Mali, Songhai etc. yet will over look what role these Africans played in the development of Trade Routes and how Africans many times developed their own routes of Trade via the Ocean, Rivers and across deserts. Here is an In depth look at some of the most over looked trade hubs of African History.
The Swahili
The Swahili people are a Bantu Speaking people on the Eastern Coast of Africa, mainly Tanzania, Kenya, and Mozambique. The Swahili people developed trade networks in one of the most important trade routes in the world, the Indian Sea Trade.
The Culture of the Swahili is one of Intermarriage. The Local Bantu Africans developed Trade with Arabs, Persians, Indians, and eventually Western Europeans beginning with the Portugese and later the British. Due to the diversity of cultures and people who traded with the Swahili, intermarriage, and her important position in the Indian Sea Trade, the Local Bantu's developed a unique culture and language, known as Swahili.
As expected with anything in Africa that does not resemble a "Mud Hut" or that is built of Stone, Historians and ignorant unlearned racists past and present have tried to claim the Swahili Architecture and Culture as "Arab", "Persian" or "Asiatic" with little input from the Local Africans. This is of course contrasted by the archeological and written record of Travelers to the Swahili Coast. Let us examine some of the latest findings.
Archaeological evidence proves that the Swahili developed from Cushitic Pastoralists who crossed the Rift Valley.(-Jacob L. Kimaryo*-East African Coastal Historical Towns. Asiatic or African?) This evidence further suggests that the Swahili learned and adapted non African styles of Architecture and art and incorporated these various art styles themselves into their own traditional culture and arts. In other words the Africans of the Swahili Coast developed relationships with various peoples(Indians, Persians, Chinese, etc), after traveling and trading with other cultures in foreign lands. The Swahili then hired local architects, artists and stone masons to not only build back in Africa but to teach local African architects, artists and stone masons their unique craft and style. This is no different to what countless people including Europeans, Arabs, and Persians themselves have always done in the past.
Also the notion that it was Persians and Arabs who developed the trade routes on the Swahili Coast is equally unfounded and against the evidence that proves the local Africans were long distant trading long before the advent of Islam and the arrival of Arab and Persian merchants. A Native Swahili researcher and archaeologist from the University of Dar Es Salaam, Dr. Felix Chami, has discovered an exciting find in a cave on the Island of Juani off the Tanzanian Coast. Inspired by the works of the Greek geographer Ptolemy, describing East African cities being "Metropolis" Dr. Chami has discovered items indicating long distant trade carbon dated to 600 B.C. Among the items discovered were Syrian Glass vessels, Greco-Roman Pottery, Sassanian Pottery from Persia and glass beads. (Tanzanian dig unearths ancient secret).
The Final Nail in the Coffin of the "Arab/Persian/Asian" origin of the Swahili is a pasage from the Travel Journal of the "Berber" traveler Ibn Battuta who visited "Kilwa" one of the most important cities on the Swahili Coasts..
"We ... traveled by sea to the city of Kulwa [Kilwa in East Africa]...Most of its people are Zunuj, extremely black...The city of Kulwa is amongst the most beautiful of cities and most elegantly built... Their uppermost virtue is religion and righteousness and they are Shafi'i in rite." -Ibn Battuta, A.D. 1331
Map Detailing the Trade Routes of the Indian Ocean
No only does Ibn Battuta describe the inhabitants of Kilwa as "Very Black" but also as "Zanji/Zanuuj" the Arabic word for Africans from the Swahili Coast. Where were all the Arab and Persians when Ibn Battuta visited Kilwa confirming the words of Ptolemy the geographer who also described the cities on the Swahili coast as Metropolis long before Islam. We can now dismiss any notion that non Africans had anything to do with the development of the magnificent culture of the Swahili people.
A miniature from a Persian Manuscript(Al-Maqamat) showing a Swahili(Zanji) Trading ship.-1237 C.E
I think I remember you posting this on Historum. Awesome rant!
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: @Lioness
Now...I just want to point this out. No one is denying the possible of Cushite type people having an influence on the Swahili civilization or help develop it. But what Clyde Winters is trying to say is that the Axumite Empire was responsible for the development of the Swahili civilization when there is no proof of that and all he posted was just speculation. The sources you posted doesn't even state the Axumite empire was responsible for the Swahili civilization and it doesn't even mention the Swahili civilization as a whole. Again not denying Cushite type people having an influence. If the Axumite empire was responsible then why weren't those early populations of Southeast Asia converted to Christianity, if the Axumite empire controlled the Swahili coast. The Axumite empire was a Christian empire.
@Jari
Thanks for adding to the thread. Will read later.
@Firewall
That video is already posted in the OP.
LOL. The Periplus was written in the 1st Century AD. Axumites became Christians in 356 AD.
As a result, they would not have been Christians.
The earliest civilization in Southwest Arabia date back to the 2nd Millenium. This culture is called the Tihama culture which originated in Africa (Fattovich, 2008).
This view is supported by the archaeological evidence that support a close relationship between the Puntites/ Ethiopians and Nubians. For example, according to Fattovich, the pottery from Tihama Cultural Complex and other Ethiopian sites shows similarities to the Kerma and C-Group pottery. Given this connection between Ethiopian civilizations and civilizations in Nubia, make it clear that the Ethiopians would have been familiar with the ancient writing system used in this area.
At Tihama and other sites in Arabia we find pottery related to the C-Group people of Nubia (Keall, 2000;2008; Fattovish, 2008; Giumlia-Mair, 2002)The archaeological evidence indicates that C-Group people expanded from Nubia to Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley.
This civilization probably originated in Nubia. It is characterized by the cheesecake or pillbox burial monuments which extend from Dhofar in Nubia, the Gara mountains to Adulis on the Gulf of Zula, to Hadramaut, Qataban, Ausan, Adenm, Asir, the Main area and Tihama.
The historical evidence support an old presence of Ethio-Semitic in Africa. For example, the Axumite Empire was founded by the Habashan. the habashan are mentioned in a 3rd or 4th century Himyarite inscription from South Arabia, which refers to an alliance between Gadarat King of the Habashan or Habashat. Some of the people of Punt were probably Tigrinya speakers, who call their language habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. The term Habesh, seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia and may be connected with the Amharic word washa 'cave or cavern', and may refer to the" cave dwellers" who once served as the principal traders along the Ethiopian coast. The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.
In addition, some of the earliest Sabean/Thamudic inscriptions have been found in Ethiopia, and not South Arabia. For example, Dr. Doresse has found Sabean cursive writing on a sceptre that indicates that the Habashat/Axumite empire had writing. These Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty (1709-1320) in connection to the land of Punt. Given the Egyptian association of the Habashan with Punt, I call the speakers of the Ethio-Semitic languages: Puntites. We have Egyptian evidence of trade missions to Punt as early as PepiII in 2400 BC and Mentuholep IV and IV. The vizier Amenemhat, of Mentuholep IV is said to have established a port near Safaga. the most famous mission to Punt was sent by Queen Hatshepsut, and is recorded at deir el Bahri. Since the Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian documents they were in existence long before the Arabic speakers.
The evidence of shared archaism for Akkadian and Ethio-Semitic indicate that the speakers of these languages probably shared many linguistic features when they separated. It also suggest that thespeakers of these languages probably separated in Africa, since the Ethio-Semitic speakers have long been established in their present home, as supported by the Egyptian inscriptions. The Ethio-Semitic speakers have maintained these features due to the relative stability of these languages. You can find out more about the stability of African languages in my article "Linguistic Continuity and African and Dravidian languages", International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 23 (2), (1996) 34-52. We must conclude that the Semitic languages originated in Africa.
References: Keall, E. J. (2000) >Changing Settlement along the Red Sea Coast of Yemen in the Bronze Age=, First International Congress on the Archaeology of the Ancient Near East (Rome May 18-23, 1998), Proceedings, (Matthiae, P., Enea, A., Peyronel, L. and Pinnock, F., eds), 719-31, Rome.
Giumlia-Mair, A., Keall, E. J., Shugar, A. and Stock, S. (2002) >Investigation of a Copper-based Hoard from the Megalithic Site of al-Midamman, Yemen: an Interdisciplinary Approach=, Journal of Archaeological Science 29, 195-209.
Keall, Dr. Edward J.Contact across the Red Sea (between Arabia and Africa) in the 2nd millennium BC: circumstantial evidence from the archaeological site of al-Midamman, Tihama coast of Yemen, and Dahlak Kabir Island, Eritrea .
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Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
It is sad Son of Ra that you don’t know the basics of research. If you did you would not make stupid statements that would allow me to make a fool out of you.
But since you are a fool I will make you look even more stupid. You have not bothered to study Ethiopian history if you had you would know that the Axumites are Habashat origin. The Habashat founded the Sabaean and Axumite civilizations. The Sabaeans ruled Azania. This means that the Habashat/Axumites probably founded the trading centers on the East African coast. First we will review the ancient history of Ethiopia.
William H. Schoff, The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century (New York: Longmans, Green, and Co., 1912), provides us with the information necessary to support my view that the Axumites founded many Centers on E African coast.
15. Beyond Opone, the shore trending more toward the south first there are the small and great bluffs of Azania; this coast is destitute of harbors, but there are places where ships can lie at anchor, the shore being abrupt; and this course is of six days, the direction being south-west. Then come the small and great beach for another six days' course and after that in order, the Courses of Azania, the first being called Sarapion and the next Nicon; and after that several rivers and other anchorages, one after the other, separately a rest and a run for each day, seven in all, until the Pyralax islands and what is called the channel; beyond which, a little to the south of south-west, after two courses of a day and night along the Ausanitic coast, is the island Menuthias, about three hundred stadia from the mainland, low and and wooded, in which there are rivers and many kinds of birds and the mountain-tortoise. There are no wild beasts except the crocodiles; but there they do not attack men. In this place there are sewed boats, and canoes hollowed from single logs, which they use for fishing and catching tortoise. In this island they also catch them in a peculiar wav, in wicker baskets, which they fasten across the channel-opening between the breakers. .
Ethiopian Pyparus Boats
.
16. Two days' sail beyond, there lies the very last market-town of the continent of Azania, which is called Rhapta; which has its name from the sewed boats (rhapton ploiarion) already mentioned; in which there is ivory in great quantity, and tortoise-shell. Along this coast live men of piratical habits, very great in stature, and under separate chiefs for each place. The Mapharitic chief governs it under some ancient right that subjects it to the sovereignty of the state that is become first in Arabia. And the people of Muza now hold it under his authority, and send thither many large ships; using Arab captains and agents, who are familiar with the natives and intermarry with them, and who know the whole coast and understand the language.
31. It happens that just as Azania is subject to Charibael and the Chief of Mapharitis, this island is subject to the King of the Frankincense Country. Trade is also carried on there by some people from Muza and by those who chance to call there on the voyage from Damirica and Barygaza; they bring in rice and wheat and Indian cloth, and a few female slaves; and they take for their exchange cargoes, a great quantity of tortoise-shell. Now the island is farmed out under the Kings and is garrisoned.
I've heard of Rhapta. I was suppose to have been a very successful and populous marketplace. But I believe its location has not really been identified Anyways thanks for your two cents and source for this discussion. Still reading....Interesting read.
@Clyde Winters
I don't believe the people of Axumite went that far into the interior of Africa. I definitely don't think they had colonies in Africa. Also the Swahili language doesn't seen to have any Ge'ez dialects, which is probably the language the people of Axum spoke. The Swahili language seems mostly Bantu with some Arabic words.
Son of Ra you are an ignorant moron. Yes Bantu would have been in East Africa, but that does not mean they founded the trading centers. The fact that Swahili is a lingua franca makes it is clear that the Bantu found it in their interest to adopt Swahili to trade more effectively with the Habashan/Sabaeans/Axumites who developed the trade network.
In summary, the historical evidence support an old presence of Ethio-Semitic in Africa. For example, the Axumite Empire was founded by the Habashan. the habashan are mentioned in a 3rd or 4th century Himyarite inscription from South Arabia, which refers to an alliance between Gadarat King of the Habashan or Habashat.
Some of the people of Punt were probably Tigrinya speakers, who call their language habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. The term Habesh, seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia and may be connected with the Amharic word washa 'cave or cavern', and may refer to the" cave dwellers" who once served as the principal traders along the Ethiopian coast. The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.
In addition, some of the earliest Sabean/Thamudic inscriptions have been found in Ethiopia, and not South Arabia. For example, Dr. Doresse has found Sabean cursive writing on a sceptre that indicates that the Habashat/Axumite empire had writing.
These Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty (1709-1320) in connection to the land of Punt. Given the Egyptian association of the Habashan with Punt, I call the speakers of the Ethio-Semitic languages: Puntites. We have Egyptian evidence of trade missions to Punt as early as PepiII in 2400 BC and Mentuholep IV and IV. The vizier Amenemhat, of Mentuholep IV is said to have established a port near Safaga. the most famous mission to Punt was sent by Queen Hatshepsut, and is recorded at deir el Bahri. Since the Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian documents they were in existence long before the Arabic speakers.
Given the evidence, I am making only one claim: archaeological evidence indicate that the Oldest Sabaean inscriptions are found in Ethiopia, along with monumental architecture. This means only one thing: Sabaean writing was invented by the Ethiopians who took the writing to Yemen, no matter what some experts claim. It further supports the view that the Habashan or Sabaeans would have laid the foundation for the Swahili cities.
The archaeology does not indicate a higher civilization in Yemen than in Ethiopia. All the archaeological data indicate that Ethiopian civilizations were homegrown and taken to Yemen by ancient Ethiopians who probably founded Saba or Sheba.
Civilization originated in Africa, not Yemen.The parameter(s) I use ito identify a cultural tradition first occurs,temporally , it is that place where the cultural complex originated. In relation to Ethiopia we find three things: 1) a long tradition of statehood (Egyptian and Ethiopian records), 2) early engagement in trade (Sumerian and Egyptian text discussing the Puntite and Meluhha civilizations), and 3) oldest evidence of writing existing in Ethiopia (Drewes 1962), not Yemen. Put these elements together we have to acknowledge that the Sabaeans and their writing probably originated in Ethiopia not Yemen.
This means that the Mapharitic king was of Habashan origin. The Habashan founded the Axumite Empire and also probably established the first trading centers along the East African coast that evolved into the Swahili cities.
.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
Swahili/Zanji Boat
.
The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.
.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
posted
Those people are freaking ethnic Swahili not Ethiopians! IIRC Jari or someone posted that.
Here is the real quote for that pic.
A miniature from a Persian Manuscript(Al-Maqamat) showing a Swahili(Zanji) Trading ship.-1237 C.E
Again where is the evidence that Axumite empire was responsible Swahili. Seriously this is getting annoying. All your post are full of speculations and your opinion. Seriously Stop wasting. Where is CONFIRMATION that the Axun Empire was responsible for the development of the Swahili coast. I don't care for your speculations.
Stop with the nonsense please and I am not even denying if the Axumite actually traded/sailed. NONE of your sources even mentions the Swahili coast. Again stop with the nonsense. The only dumbass here is you.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
posted
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: It is sad Son of Ra that you don’t know the basics of research. If you did you would not make stupid statements that would allow me to make a fool out of you.
But since you are a fool I will make you look even more stupid. You have not bothered to study Ethiopian history if you had you would know that the Axumites are Habashat origin. The Habashat founded the Sabaean and Axumite civilizations. The Sabaeans ruled Azania. This means that the Habashat/Axumites probably founded the trading centers on the East African coast. First we will review the ancient history of Ethiopia.
William H. Schoff, The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century (New York: Longmans, Green, and Co., 1912), provides us with the information necessary to support my view that the Axumites founded many Centers on E African coast.
15. Beyond Opone, the shore trending more toward the south first there are the small and great bluffs of Azania; this coast is destitute of harbors, but there are places where ships can lie at anchor, the shore being abrupt; and this course is of six days, the direction being south-west. Then come the small and great beach for another six days' course and after that in order, the Courses of Azania, the first being called Sarapion and the next Nicon; and after that several rivers and other anchorages, one after the other, separately a rest and a run for each day, seven in all, until the Pyralax islands and what is called the channel; beyond which, a little to the south of south-west, after two courses of a day and night along the Ausanitic coast, is the island Menuthias, about three hundred stadia from the mainland, low and and wooded, in which there are rivers and many kinds of birds and the mountain-tortoise. There are no wild beasts except the crocodiles; but there they do not attack men. In this place there are sewed boats, and canoes hollowed from single logs, which they use for fishing and catching tortoise. In this island they also catch them in a peculiar wav, in wicker baskets, which they fasten across the channel-opening between the breakers. .
Ethiopian Pyparus Boats
.
16. Two days' sail beyond, there lies the very last market-town of the continent of Azania, which is called Rhapta; which has its name from the sewed boats (rhapton ploiarion) already mentioned; in which there is ivory in great quantity, and tortoise-shell. Along this coast live men of piratical habits, very great in stature, and under separate chiefs for each place. The Mapharitic chief governs it under some ancient right that subjects it to the sovereignty of the state that is become first in Arabia. And the people of Muza now hold it under his authority, and send thither many large ships; using Arab captains and agents, who are familiar with the natives and intermarry with them, and who know the whole coast and understand the language.
31. It happens that just as Azania is subject to Charibael and the Chief of Mapharitis, this island is subject to the King of the Frankincense Country. Trade is also carried on there by some people from Muza and by those who chance to call there on the voyage from Damirica and Barygaza; they bring in rice and wheat and Indian cloth, and a few female slaves; and they take for their exchange cargoes, a great quantity of tortoise-shell. Now the island is farmed out under the Kings and is garrisoned.
I've heard of Rhapta. I was suppose to have been a very successful and populous marketplace. But I believe its location has not really been identified Anyways thanks for your two cents and source for this discussion. Still reading....Interesting read.
@Clyde Winters
I don't believe the people of Axumite went that far into the interior of Africa. I definitely don't think they had colonies in Africa. Also the Swahili language doesn't seen to have any Ge'ez dialects, which is probably the language the people of Axum spoke. The Swahili language seems mostly Bantu with some Arabic words.
Son of Ra you are an ignorant moron. Yes Bantu would have been in East Africa, but that does not mean they founded the trading centers. The fact that Swahili is a lingua franca makes it is clear that the Bantu found it in their interest to adopt Swahili to trade more effectively with the Habashan/Sabaeans/Axumites who developed the trade network.
In summary, the historical evidence support an old presence of Ethio-Semitic in Africa. For example, the Axumite Empire was founded by the Habashan. the habashan are mentioned in a 3rd or 4th century Himyarite inscription from South Arabia, which refers to an alliance between Gadarat King of the Habashan or Habashat.
Some of the people of Punt were probably Tigrinya speakers, who call their language habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. The term Habesh, seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia and may be connected with the Amharic word washa 'cave or cavern', and may refer to the" cave dwellers" who once served as the principal traders along the Ethiopian coast. The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.
In addition, some of the earliest Sabean/Thamudic inscriptions have been found in Ethiopia, and not South Arabia. For example, Dr. Doresse has found Sabean cursive writing on a sceptre that indicates that the Habashat/Axumite empire had writing.
These Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty (1709-1320) in connection to the land of Punt. Given the Egyptian association of the Habashan with Punt, I call the speakers of the Ethio-Semitic languages: Puntites. We have Egyptian evidence of trade missions to Punt as early as PepiII in 2400 BC and Mentuholep IV and IV. The vizier Amenemhat, of Mentuholep IV is said to have established a port near Safaga. the most famous mission to Punt was sent by Queen Hatshepsut, and is recorded at deir el Bahri. Since the Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian documents they were in existence long before the Arabic speakers.
Given the evidence, I am making only one claim: archaeological evidence indicate that the Oldest Sabaean inscriptions are found in Ethiopia, along with monumental architecture. This means only one thing: Sabaean writing was invented by the Ethiopians who took the writing to Yemen, no matter what some experts claim. It further supports the view that the Habashan or Sabaeans would have laid the foundation for the Swahili cities.
The archaeology does not indicate a higher civilization in Yemen than in Ethiopia. All the archaeological data indicate that Ethiopian civilizations were homegrown and taken to Yemen by ancient Ethiopians who probably founded Saba or Sheba.
Civilization originated in Africa, not Yemen.The parameter(s) I use ito identify a cultural tradition first occurs,temporally , it is that place where the cultural complex originated. In relation to Ethiopia we find three things: 1) a long tradition of statehood (Egyptian and Ethiopian records), 2) early engagement in trade (Sumerian and Egyptian text discussing the Puntite and Meluhha civilizations), and 3) oldest evidence of writing existing in Ethiopia (Drewes 1962), not Yemen. Put these elements together we have to acknowledge that the Sabaeans and their writing probably originated in Ethiopia not Yemen.
This means that the Mapharitic king was of Habashan origin. The Habashan founded the Axumite Empire and also probably established the first trading centers along the East African coast that evolved into the Swahili cities.
.
Again more speculation theories. Stop with the nonsense already its getting annoying. And are you saying Bantu people adopted Swahili from Axunires??? Swahili which is Bantu??? What!? If I am understanding you correctly.
Please stop posting.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
posted
Gonna ignore the nonsense and get back on topic. Anyone want to continue to add besides a certain someone?
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: It is sad Son of Ra that you don’t know the basics of research. If you did you would not make stupid statements that would allow me to make a fool out of you.
But since you are a fool I will make you look even more stupid. You have not bothered to study Ethiopian history if you had you would know that the Axumites are Habashat origin. The Habashat founded the Sabaean and Axumite civilizations. The Sabaeans ruled Azania. This means that the Habashat/Axumites probably founded the trading centers on the East African coast. First we will review the ancient history of Ethiopia.
William H. Schoff, The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century (New York: Longmans, Green, and Co., 1912), provides us with the information necessary to support my view that the Axumites founded many Centers on E African coast.
15. Beyond Opone, the shore trending more toward the south first there are the small and great bluffs of Azania; this coast is destitute of harbors, but there are places where ships can lie at anchor, the shore being abrupt; and this course is of six days, the direction being south-west. Then come the small and great beach for another six days' course and after that in order, the Courses of Azania, the first being called Sarapion and the next Nicon; and after that several rivers and other anchorages, one after the other, separately a rest and a run for each day, seven in all, until the Pyralax islands and what is called the channel; beyond which, a little to the south of south-west, after two courses of a day and night along the Ausanitic coast, is the island Menuthias, about three hundred stadia from the mainland, low and and wooded, in which there are rivers and many kinds of birds and the mountain-tortoise. There are no wild beasts except the crocodiles; but there they do not attack men. In this place there are sewed boats, and canoes hollowed from single logs, which they use for fishing and catching tortoise. In this island they also catch them in a peculiar wav, in wicker baskets, which they fasten across the channel-opening between the breakers. .
Ethiopian Pyparus Boats
.
16. Two days' sail beyond, there lies the very last market-town of the continent of Azania, which is called Rhapta; which has its name from the sewed boats (rhapton ploiarion) already mentioned; in which there is ivory in great quantity, and tortoise-shell. Along this coast live men of piratical habits, very great in stature, and under separate chiefs for each place. The Mapharitic chief governs it under some ancient right that subjects it to the sovereignty of the state that is become first in Arabia. And the people of Muza now hold it under his authority, and send thither many large ships; using Arab captains and agents, who are familiar with the natives and intermarry with them, and who know the whole coast and understand the language.
31. It happens that just as Azania is subject to Charibael and the Chief of Mapharitis, this island is subject to the King of the Frankincense Country. Trade is also carried on there by some people from Muza and by those who chance to call there on the voyage from Damirica and Barygaza; they bring in rice and wheat and Indian cloth, and a few female slaves; and they take for their exchange cargoes, a great quantity of tortoise-shell. Now the island is farmed out under the Kings and is garrisoned.
I've heard of Rhapta. I was suppose to have been a very successful and populous marketplace. But I believe its location has not really been identified Anyways thanks for your two cents and source for this discussion. Still reading....Interesting read.
@Clyde Winters
I don't believe the people of Axumite went that far into the interior of Africa. I definitely don't think they had colonies in Africa. Also the Swahili language doesn't seen to have any Ge'ez dialects, which is probably the language the people of Axum spoke. The Swahili language seems mostly Bantu with some Arabic words.
Son of Ra you are an ignorant moron. Yes Bantu would have been in East Africa, but that does not mean they founded the trading centers. The fact that Swahili is a lingua franca makes it is clear that the Bantu found it in their interest to adopt Swahili to trade more effectively with the Habashan/Sabaeans/Axumites who developed the trade network.
In summary, the historical evidence support an old presence of Ethio-Semitic in Africa. For example, the Axumite Empire was founded by the Habashan. the habashan are mentioned in a 3rd or 4th century Himyarite inscription from South Arabia, which refers to an alliance between Gadarat King of the Habashan or Habashat.
Some of the people of Punt were probably Tigrinya speakers, who call their language habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. The term Habesh, seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia and may be connected with the Amharic word washa 'cave or cavern', and may refer to the" cave dwellers" who once served as the principal traders along the Ethiopian coast. The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.
In addition, some of the earliest Sabean/Thamudic inscriptions have been found in Ethiopia, and not South Arabia. For example, Dr. Doresse has found Sabean cursive writing on a sceptre that indicates that the Habashat/Axumite empire had writing.
These Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty (1709-1320) in connection to the land of Punt. Given the Egyptian association of the Habashan with Punt, I call the speakers of the Ethio-Semitic languages: Puntites. We have Egyptian evidence of trade missions to Punt as early as PepiII in 2400 BC and Mentuholep IV and IV. The vizier Amenemhat, of Mentuholep IV is said to have established a port near Safaga. the most famous mission to Punt was sent by Queen Hatshepsut, and is recorded at deir el Bahri. Since the Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian documents they were in existence long before the Arabic speakers.
Given the evidence, I am making only one claim: archaeological evidence indicate that the Oldest Sabaean inscriptions are found in Ethiopia, along with monumental architecture. This means only one thing: Sabaean writing was invented by the Ethiopians who took the writing to Yemen, no matter what some experts claim. It further supports the view that the Habashan or Sabaeans would have laid the foundation for the Swahili cities.
The archaeology does not indicate a higher civilization in Yemen than in Ethiopia. All the archaeological data indicate that Ethiopian civilizations were homegrown and taken to Yemen by ancient Ethiopians who probably founded Saba or Sheba.
Civilization originated in Africa, not Yemen.The parameter(s) I use ito identify a cultural tradition first occurs,temporally , it is that place where the cultural complex originated. In relation to Ethiopia we find three things: 1) a long tradition of statehood (Egyptian and Ethiopian records), 2) early engagement in trade (Sumerian and Egyptian text discussing the Puntite and Meluhha civilizations), and 3) oldest evidence of writing existing in Ethiopia (Drewes 1962), not Yemen. Put these elements together we have to acknowledge that the Sabaeans and their writing probably originated in Ethiopia not Yemen.
This means that the Mapharitic king was of Habashan origin. The Habashan founded the Axumite Empire and also probably established the first trading centers along the East African coast that evolved into the Swahili cities.
.
Again more speculation theories. Stop with the nonsense already its getting annoying. And are you saying Bantu people adopted Swahili from Axunires??? Swahili which is Bantu??? What!? If I am understanding you correctly.
Please stop posting.
LOL. Unasema kiSwahili?I don't think so. There is no speculation here.
Lets look at the facts.
1. The Habashan/Axumites founded the Sabaean civilization.
2. Mapharitic was the name for Sabaen civilization in Yemen.
3. Mapharitic king was of Habashan/Axumite origin.
4. Mapharitic King controlled trade on East Coast of Africa.
5. Mapharitic trade centers evolved into Swahili cities.
6. Swahili is a lingua franca or trade language. It is made up of Bantu and Semitic elements.
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
.
16. Two days' sail beyond, there lies the very last market-town of the continent of Azania, which is called Rhapta; which has its name from the sewed boats (rhapton ploiarion) already mentioned; in which there is ivory in great quantity, and tortoise-shell. Along this coast live men of piratical habits, very great in stature, and under separate chiefs for each place. The Mapharitic chief governs it under some ancient right that subjects it to the sovereignty of the state that is become first in Arabia. And the people of Muza now hold it under his authority, and send thither many large ships; using Arab captains and agents, who are familiar with the natives and intermarry with them, and who know the whole coast and understand the language.
31. It happens that just as Azania is subject to Charibael and the Chief of Mapharitis, this island is subject to the King of the Frankincense Country. Trade is also carried on there by some people from Muza and by those who chance to call there on the voyage from Damirica and Barygaza; they bring in rice and wheat and Indian cloth, and a few female slaves; and they take for their exchange cargoes, a great quantity of tortoise-shell. Now the island is farmed out under the Kings and is garrisoned.[/i]
Most researchers agree that Charibael, was the name of a Sabaean ruler called Kariba II.
So the Sabaeans came down from Yemen and established trading centers along the coast of Ethiopia
- but they were already Ethiopian
Son of Ra Member # 20401
posted
More pseudo-historic nonsense still with no evidence.
Anyways, back on topic. According to poster Jari who is an expert on this. The Greeks and Romans traded with the Swahili prior to Islamic Merchants. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1924318.stm
So I think is safe to say the Swahili coast was mainly controlled by Africans.
posted 
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