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Ancient West African/Carthage contact/relations???
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Son of Ra: [QB] I've been wanting to touch base on this for a while and believe this should be discussed more in depth. A lot of people have this thought that West Africans have always been isolated from the rest of the world in Ancient times and also that they developed civilization very recently. We already know that Tichitt Walata proves that wrong and that they were quite advanced in stone building. [IMG]http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/macncheese_2010/Africa/tichit04.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/2uj3tpz.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/nnw8ev.jpg[/IMG] But still...Were Africans isolated throughout "[i]antiquity[/i]" or is that a Eurocentric myth? I believe the latter...We all know that the Carthaginians sailed to the West Coast of Africa, but how often did they encounter West Africans? How detailed was the contacts and how close were their relations??? Here is something member Jari posted back on another thread. [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003764]This one.[/URL] [QUOTE][b]The trade of the Phoenicians with the west coast of Africa had for its principal objects the procuring of ivory, of elephant, lion, leopard, and deer-skins, and probably of gold.[/b] Scylax relates that there was an established trade in his day (about B.C. 350) between Phoenicia and an island which he calls Cerne, probably Arguin, off the West African coast. [b]"The merchants," he says, "who are Phoenicians, when they have arrived at Cerne, anchor their vessels there, and after having pitched their tents upon the shore, proceed to unload their cargo, and to convey it in smaller boats to the mainland. The dealers with whom they trade are Ethiopians; and these dealers sell to the Phoenicians skins of deer, lions, panthers, and domestic animals--elephants' skins also, and their teeth. The Ethiopians wear embroidered garments, and use ivory cups as drinking vessels; their women adorn themselves with ivory bracelets; and their horses also are adorned with ivory.[/b] The Phoenicians convey to them [b]eointment, elaborate vessels from Egypt, castrated swine(?), and Attic pottery and cups.[/b] These last they commonly purchase [in Athens] at the Feast of Cups. These Ethiopians are eaters of flesh and drinkers of milk; they make also much wine from the vine; and the Phoenicians, too, supply some wine to them. [b]They have a considerable city, to which the Phoenicians sail up." The river on which the city stood was probably the Senegal.[/b] It will be observed that Scylax says nothing in this passage of any traffic for gold. We can scarcely suppose, however, that the Phoenicians, if they penetrated so far south as this, could remain ignorant of the fact that West Africa was a gold-producing country, much less that, being aware of the fact, they would fail to utilise it. Probably they were the first to establish that "dumb commerce" which was afterwards carried on with so much advantage to themselves by the Carthaginians, and whereof Herodotus gives so graphic an account. "There is a country," he says, "in Libya, and a nation, beyond the Pillars of Hercules, which the Carthaginians are wont to visit, where they no sooner arrive than forthwith they unlade their wares, and having disposed them after an orderly fashion along the beach, there leave them, and returning aboard their ships, raise a great smoke. The natives, when they see the sample, come down to the shore, and laying out to view so much gold as they think the wares are worth, withdraw to a distance. The Carthaginians upon this come ashore again and look. If they think the gold to be enough, they take it and go their way; but if it does not seem to them sufficient, they go aboard ship once more, and wait patiently. Then the others approach and add to their gold, till the Carthaginians are satisfied. Neither party deals unfairly by the other: for they themselves never touch the gold till it comes up to the worth of their goods, nor do the natives ever carry off the goods until the gold has been taken away." The nature of the Phoenician trade with the Canaries, or Fortunate Islands, is not stated by any ancient author, and can only be conjectured. It would scarcely have been worth the Phoenicians' while to convey timber to Syria from such a distance, or we might imagine the virgin forests of the islands attracting them. The large breed of dogs from which the Canaries derived their later name may perhaps have constituted an article of export even in Phoenician times, as we know they did later, when we hear of their being conveyed to King Juba; but there is an entire lack of evidence on the subject. Perhaps the Phoenicians frequented the islands less for the sake of commerce than for that of watering and refitting the ships engaged in the African trade, since the natives were less formidable than those who inhabited the mainland. [/QUOTE]Information supplied by: "http://phoenicia.org [IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/2i8vpch.jpg[/IMG] [i]llustration of angus mcbride showing Phoenicians traders trading with Mandé merchants of the Pre-Imperial Mali of the Tichitt-Walata cliffs of Southern Mauritania in The 10th or 8th century BC.[/i] So again how close was their relationship? Were their West Africans in Carthage? This topic has always concerned me. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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