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My take on the possibility of Abu Bakr II reaching the Americas
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [b] I have had recent correspondance on a whole list of questions I had pertaining to the camel riding figure here. The person addressed[/QUOTE][/b]Just another person presenting an opinion that's all.[b] [QUOTE]each politely in high detail. From what he said my current opinion is that Abu-Bakr Ibn-Umar the Almoravid ruler who had died over 300 years prior to the map maker is nevertheless a good guess as to who that camel rider is, [/QUOTE][/b]What did Anonymous say that I didn't?[b] [QUOTE] not 100% certain but good. This person, who seemed expert,[/QUOTE][/b]What qualifies "seemed expert"?[b] [QUOTE] said that what looks like a "D" could have been an overflow of ink on a "C" [/QUOTE][/b]We see this very same D elsewhere on the chart. It is indeed a D. It is not a C nor is there any overflow of ink where Bubeder is written.[b] [QUOTE] and was "Bubecer", that meaning Bakr. The word "Bubeder" I had noticed, is in many 18th German books, meaning "boy". It appears in them as one word and in other books "Bube der, two words meaning the same thing. "Bube- boy It's an odd coinindence apparently a completely unrelated word.[/QUOTE][/b]de Viladestes did not write a Germanic language. He wrote a Romance language that to me looks like maybe Latin mixed in with Catalan since REX is not the Catalan for king.[b] [QUOTE] "Rex Bubeder" had been noted in several crediblie historical books that mention the Viladestes and they don't mention "Bubecer" However for other reasons ther is good possibilty that "Bubecer" was intended and that the figure is intended to be the Almoravid Abu Bakr of the 11th c rather than Malian Abu Bakrs of the 13/14th c.[/QUOTE][/b]Hmmm, now of a sudden its credible and reasonable but when I said it it was nonsense to be abu Bakr it was nonsense to not possibly be a Soninke.[b] [QUOTE] And there are other credible books on the Viladestes map which do speculate Abu Bakr of the 11th c, "Bubecer"[/QUOTE][/b]Didn't you ask me for professional agreement? Where were these credible books then? I'm not at all surprised to see "credible books" arrive at my same "nonsense" conclusion. please list them[b] [QUOTE]Massufa appears (in Catalan "they are called Mosifes") in the inscription Vildestes writes. The last part Viladestes adds (which is not in Cresques) is that they are called "Mosifes". Mosifes = Massufa, one of the tribes of the Almoravids (the Massufa were the branch of the Almoravids that conquered and ruled Majorca, Viladestes's home, in the 11th-12th C., which might explain why he added that note - Mosifes may have been the local Majorcan name for them) [/b][/QUOTE]The veiled black camel rider Rex Bubeder replaced the veiled white camel rider unnamed by Cresques. The location of both is southern Mauritania in the southwestern Sahara. al~Murabitun had two major branches one southern the other northern. The lemp beast, or lamt, is one proposal offered as basis for the Lemtuna and Lemt tribal nisbes. I welcome critique of what I write because it can improve my understanding. I don't appreciate baseless potshots that merely ignore and sidestep all of my analysis and synthesis of on the ground facts to arrive at new pardigms or original thought/ideas. I invite Anonymous here to discuss any points of error. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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