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Clyde do kids educated with an afocentric school curriculum achieve more ?
tropicals redacted Member # 21621
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I'm assuming you mean whether children of African descent taught with a curriculum that's more reflective of their heritage are educationally more successful?
Doesn't this depend on the quality of the teaching and more importantly, as academics have told me, how proactive and engaged the parents are?
the lioness, Member # 17353
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THis question is for Clyde first. Suppose there are two schools. The are exactly the same except for history class. One school teaches mainstream history, typicla of most schools today, the other afrocentric history. Would a black kid tend to do better overall in all subjects if they were in the school that taught afrocentric history ? -also use any eveidence you might have of actual schools comparitively. I'm updating the question here a bit. A school might not only have an afrocentric history class but othr African centered classes. I'm not talking about that. I want to focus on this one history aspect. If the kid is taught he comes from a noble and glorious history do they perform better?
Comparitivley other kids might come come a culture that seems unremarkable or another kid might have to deal with a bad historical element such as German history in WWII
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: THis question is for Clyde first. Suppose there are two schools. The are exactly the same except for history class. One school teaches mainstream history, typicla of most schools today, the other afrocentric history. Would a black kid tend to do better overall in all subjects if they were in the school that taught afrocentric history ? -also use any eveidence you might have of actual schools comparitively. I'm updating the question here a bit. A school might not only have an afrocentric history class but othr African centered classes. I'm not talking about that. I want to focus on this one history aspect. If the kid is taught he comes from a noble and glorious history do they perform better?
Comparitivley other kids might come come a culture that seems unremarkable or another kid might have to deal with a bad historical element such as German history in WWII
Sorry I have not read the literature.
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the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ]Sorry I have not read the literature.
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compare your old highschool tback in the day with that same highschool but you would be teaching the history class. You the age you are now are taken back in time and employed in your old high school as a history teacher
Does a black kid in the same school but one that that would have taken your history class get potentially a better sense of self esteem that leads to better performance in all the classes?
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
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Early research from schools in Philadelphia and Canada indicated that students perform better in Afrocentric schools.
Research literature on motivation, generally, indicates that students perform their best, based on teacher expectations.As a result, students work up to the potential you establish as their teacher.
It is clear from the research that in failing schools the teachers lack self esteem and motivation. These teachers have no faith in the ability of their students and the students in turn have low academic achievement.
Recognizing this phenomena, teachers at Afrocentric schools have high self-esteem and high expectations for the children they teach. This suggest that the attitudes of teachers at Afrocentric schools can also be a factor in the academic achievement of students in Afrocentric schools..
I attended DuSable high. We had a tradition of Afro-American success, especially in music (e.g., Nate King Cole), so we had high expectations and were taught Afro-American history. Over the years the faculty at DuSable changed and the school lacks any real traditions and culture.
When I consult and do presentations on student academic achievement at education nconferences, I make it clear that the key to building great schools is developing a school culture , traditions and sayings that encourage student success. Schools that fail generally lack a clear school culture and tradition. Schools fail when they allow the negative features of the community in which they exist to become the culture of the school.
If you are interested in establishing an Afrocentric program you may want to purchase these books:
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the lioness, Member # 17353
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I've read criticism of what is called the self esteem movement that children who are taught they are innately good don't achieve more that to achieve more and be considered good they need to do things to prove it.
But the thing you said about having a school culture sounds good.
Ultimatly getting hired at a job that can pay your bills is basic survival. I think it would be better if High schools had a couple of classes which prepared people for specific jobs that are most available as well as the standard academics and history. Some schools might do this but most do not
Sundjata Member # 13096
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Thanks for sharing! This is actually very useful for me. I've recently shifted gears and my research focus pretty much deals with this very issue. I agree with everything Clyde says here.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Early research from schools in Philadelphia and Canada indicated that students perform better in Afrocentric schools.
Research literature on motivation, generally, indicates that students perform their best, based on teacher expectations.As a result, students work up to the potential you establish as their teacher.
It is clear from the research that in failing schools the teachers lack self esteem and motivation. These teachers have no faith in the ability of their students and the students in turn have low academic achievement.
Recognizing this phenomena, teachers at Afrocentric schools have high self-esteem and high expectations for the children they teach. This suggest that the attitudes of teachers at Afrocentric schools can also be a factor in the academic achievement of students in Afrocentric schools..
I attended DuSable high. We had a tradition of Afro-American success, especially in music (e.g., Nate King Cole), so we had high expectations and were taught Afro-American history. Over the years the faculty at DuSable changed and the school lacks any real traditions and culture.
When I consult and do presentations on student academic achievement at education nconferences, I make it clear that the key to building great schools is developing a school culture , traditions and sayings that encourage student success. Schools that fail generally lack a clear school culture and tradition. Schools fail when they allow the negative features of the community in which they exist to become the culture of the school.
If you are interested in establishing an Afrocentric program you may want to purchase these books:
.
the lioness, Member # 17353
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having high expectations might be a part of some afrocentric programs but you can have high expectations without it necessarily being tied to afrocentricity or the greatness of one's ancestors.
I'm wondering how just the pure history being taught makes a difference, if it alone, being informed of one's national or ethnic history background makes a difference but I know it's not easy being a mnority.
And many modern people are so mixed in background, no one thing stands out
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
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Teachers having high expectations for their students is a key to student academic achievement.
Administrators have a tendency to believe that education fads bring about success. Today Common Core State Standards are believed as the path to student academic achievement. but in reality CCSS are nothing more than statements; it takes a good teacher to interpret the CCSS and develop lessons and materials to help students produce their own learning and educational products.
I have visited many schools during my consulting and the predominate feature of successful schools is an evident great school culture.
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the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
I have visited many schools during my consulting and the predominate feature of successful schools is an evident great school culture.
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sometimes they attempt this with the sports ra-ra teams
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
I have visited many schools during my consulting and the predominate feature of successful schools is an evident great school culture.
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sometimes they attempt this with the sports ra-ra teams [/QB]
Not really. Great schools concentrate on a school culture that focuses on high academic achievement. Sports activities in Suburban schools are mainly the focus of parent boosters who raise the money to support their teams.
In many cities like Chicago, some of the best sports teams , are also the schools with high academic achievement , e.g., Whitney Young. Lets face it smart kids listen to their coaches--so naturally you will have better athlects.
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tropicals redacted Member # 21621
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quote: having high expectations might be a part of some afrocentric programs but you can have high expectations without it necessarily being tied to afrocentricity or the greatness of one's ancestors.
True. But to pretend that ideology plays no part in the selection of mainstream curricula is disingenuous. Last year there was controversy here in the UK when the Conservative education minister, Michael Gove, wanted a shift to a history curriculum that focussed more on British, rather than world history.
Moreover, isn't education more than just about grades - what about the development of positive self-image?
quote: I'm wondering how just the pure history being taught makes a difference, if it alone, being informed of one's national or ethnic history background makes a difference but I know it's not easy being a mnority.
I don't think it does, but given the right calibre of head/teaching staff and educationally engaged parents, I think it's potentially quite potent in terms of supporting memes around high standards and achievement, and countering some of the internalised scripts around what black people do and don't do/are capable of.
It might be useful to consider the teaching of classics/the foundations of Western civilization in societies where the majority populations have never had to deal with pervasive, erroneous narratives.
tropicals redacted Member # 21621
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quote: Does a black kid in the same school but one that that would have taken your history class get potentially a better sense of self esteem that leads to better performance in all the classes?
Having the knowledge of ancient and medieval African societies, might well make the child more impervious to the assimilation of racist narratives and group-think.
With my own children, I take the approach that school supplements the education you provide for your children at home.
I taught both my daughters the alphabet before they turned 2, started teaching them to read when they were 3. In her reception at age 4, the eldest (turned 6 a week ago) was assessed as 98th percentile. She has the reading age of a 10 year old and knows her times tables up to and including 12, something the British government is trying to make a mandatory learning objective for nine year olds.
I'm repeating the formula for my youngest (3), who is currently at the reading /decoding level of a 5 year old.
And yes, at home, I certainly do use reading/teaching materials/DVDs that feature children of African descent; providing books that accurately portray the ancient Egyptians as black Africans, as well as texts for when they're older on other African civilizations.
Despite the fact that my children’s school is over 90% black, they follow a very ordinary curriculum. A year or so ago I complained when they sent my eldest home with a book on the Caribbean that contained age-inappropriate references to slavery and race; I wouldn't regard that as particularly helpful in developing the worldview of my daughter; but if grades are all that matter then I guess some people would be happy with the fact that the school has received ratings of 'Outstanding' and 'Good’. (The school apologised and withdrew the book BTW.)
For what it's worth, I try to get a sense of where my kids are at in terms of their self-image and assimilation of the idea of 'black' as a normative. I've given them ancient Egyptian colouring books, and noticed that when they colour the flesh parts, they use the same brown when drawing and colouring themselves. At Christmas, they do the same with nativity scenes and images of angels. A couple of years ago we spent a week in a holiday house in a part of the UK where the population is 100% white. On tidying up before leaving, we found that one of the girls had found a white doll amongst the toys, and coloured the face in brown...just to be clear,we don't discuss race in front of the children.
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
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I say do whatever Urban Prep is doing.
Ru2religious Member # 4547
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Clyde do kids educated with an afocentric school curriculum achieve more ?
I know this question was to clyde but I have some imput on this.
My kids were and are still being educated in a more Afrocentric environment. My daughter in the 6 grade had problems learning basic math withing the European school system. I took her out of that system and put here in a dogon school and but the end of that you she was doing Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry and Calculus (advanced levels). My 9 year old as of now is doing Geometry and my 14 year old son has surpassed his sister where he helps teach math in his class.
Historically they learn American history (true history). Reading they are more advanced and they are actually learning African languages. They are giving a better history on Africa's (all countries) so with that being said - and in my experience they are much more advanced and learning more younger. My oldest daughter when she turned 16 she was already in college taking advance courses.
Nebsen Member # 13728
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Jews & Chinese have been sending their children to so called " Cultural Schools" for years, that sub-lament what the public & even private schools are not teaching about their cultures to their children. It seem to be working for these groups
Amun-Ra The Ultimate Member # 20039
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quote:Originally posted by Nebsen: Jews & Chinese have been sending their children to so called " Cultural Schools" for years, that sub-lament what the public & even private schools are not teaching about their cultures to their children. It seem to be working for these groups
Many don't go at "cultural schools". The real cultural schools of the Jews and Chinese is at home, with their parents, and within their family and community. This is the most important part. Many Jewish and Chinese people go to public schools and they still maintain a strong sense of community, values, tradition, openness, family, etc. It's true for Africans and other people of course. Nothing is more important than how you behave at home and what you teach your children.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
quote:Originally posted by Nebsen: Jews & Chinese have been sending their children to so called " Cultural Schools" for years, that sub-lament what the public & even private schools are not teaching about their cultures to their children. It seem to be working for these groups
Many don't go at "cultural schools". The real cultural schools of the Jews and Chinese is at home, with their parents, and within their family and community. This is the most important part. Many Jewish and Chinese people go to public schools and they still maintain a strong sense of community, values, tradition, openness, family, etc. It's true for Africans and other people of course. Nothing is more important than how you behave at home and what you teach your children.
Jewish and Chinese children are mainly taught culture in the temple and social clubs. Parents have limited knowledge about "the culture", so there is always a need for formal instruction in cultural practices for a culture to be maintained in a Western society.
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tropicals redacted Member # 21621
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In and of themselves, I don't think "Cultural Schools" lead to outstanding academic results. I think it's more to do with the advantages in literacy and numeracy that the home environment confers on a child before and whilst they're at school. This could be applied to state or private (we call them public) schools.
It's one of the things that doesn't seem to get raised in the UK when there's disappointment around the global rankings of British school children in terms of educational attainment. The last piece of research from the Programme for International Assessment (Pisa) done late last year put the UK at #26. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/dec/03/pisa-results-country-best-reading-maths-science
What seemed to be overlooked in the debate that followed was the extent to which British parents are educationally engaged at home, in comparison with parents in countries that ranked more highly.
East Asian countries/territories dominated the top 10, and I understand that in China, the view is that school supplements what the child learns at home.
quote: Jewish and Chinese children are mainly taught culture in the temple and social clubs. Parents have limited knowledge about "the culture", so there is always a need for formal instruction in cultural practices for a culture to be maintained in a Western society.
Yes, my experience was that the Chinese in the UK send their children to Sunday school to develop literacy in Mandarin or Cantonese, and to learn Chinese history. Although I take the view that an educated - or at least engaged - parent could provide a basis of knowledge that their children can independently build on.
the lioness, Member # 17353
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I heard that British High schools are set up so somebody routinely learns a marketable trade. Is this true and should it be true.
Nebsen Member # 13728
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I live in the Bay Area where we now have 2 Chinese mayors, San Francisco & Oakland Ca. I use to shop in China Town in S.F. because the produce & meats seemed to be superior to what one could get in local supermarkets at the time. I passed by a Couple of Chinese Schools while shopping & I would see kids with their back backs going into these schools after they got out of public schools.So Clyde in in my opinion correct.
Chinese here in the Bay Area, are a very proud people, having 2 mayors of large major cities now. They are quick to let it be known that they come from a over five thousand old culture & in many ways can appear to be chauvinistic about Chinese culture esp. with China on the rise.
They have a long tradition of producing scholars, thinkers, & inventors through out China's long history; this is a base many Chinese children can build upon. Many are expected to do well in school or bring shame on the family if they don't. Now mind you, you have many that don't; for you have your powerful Chinese gangs,who prey upon the Chinese people esp. the elderly & crime among themselves !
But, one hears far more about Chinese success, than failures. They are big into Real a State & are buying up properties like mad.
So knowing about one's great civilization can be a powerful foundation on which to excel !
In many ways I admire them, & others ways I don't. They can be very rapacious in their superstitions & appetites; bringing animals such as the Elephants near extinction in Africa, but one better not touch their precious pandas. But than again, Africans themselves are eating many African wild life, near extinction also !
the lioness, Member # 17353
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If a person came from certain places in the world where their ancestors may not have done anything "impressive" to the Western standard.
On the other hand if the achieved something they might be able to boast being the first of their group to achieve it.
That fact that sone people may have came from certain places in the world where their ancestors may not have done anything "impressive" to the Western standard, you can't then expect the world history class to motivate them on a personal self identifying level
Form another nagle if you had a famous high achieving parent you might find it hard to "live up to them"
tropicals redacted Member # 21621
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quote: I heard that British High schools are set up so somebody routinely learns a marketable trade. Is this true and should it be true.
Not in the UK, no. From what I understand, that's more of a German approach. The idea of vocational training used to be stronger within the British educational system- I wonder if grade inflation and the explosion in university numbers starting in the 1990's had anything to do with that.
Should it be the case? With the ramping up of university fees and growth of student debt(it was free 20 years ago and there was a means-tested grant)people are looking are re-visiting the vocational approach.
My concern is that this might reinforce the class system, in that the working classes - which encapsulates most Britons of African descent - may default towards vocational training, and the middle and upper classes opt for university, going on to be disproportionately represented amongst, for example, the intelligentsia, the media and government.
However, this seems to be the case anyway, regardless of the increased numbers of young people from working class backgrounds at university. Also, there really is something to be said for learning a trade and having a dependable income.
quote: That fact that sone people may have came from certain places in the world where their ancestors may not have done anything "impressive" to the Western standard, you can't then expect the world history class to motivate them on a personal self identifying level
In my view, World History should be set within an ecological context, so that we wipe away any illusions of inherent inferiority or superiority.
I think this could also be supplemented with critiques/case studies of historical narratives, in terms of how history is warped to serve propagandistic ends - ancient Egypt being a classic example.
the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by tropicals redacted:
In my view, World History should be set within an ecological context
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