...
Post A Reply
my profile
|
directory
login
|
register
|
search
|
faq
|
forum home
»
EgyptSearch Forums
»
Egyptology
»
Origin of modern day Berbers speakers--just facts, no dogma inspired fiction
» Post A Reply
Post A Reply
Login Name:
Password:
Message Icon:
Message:
HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: [QB] The OP makes an excellent case. No offense to the OP and this is just my personal opinion, but I have a problem with saying [b]modern day[/b] Berber speakers descend from Paleolithic people. Not only are modern day Berbers really a heterogeneous with different origins, with really the only thing binding them together being language and "Berber marker" E-M81. But more importantly Berber speakers only appeared around 2-3kya years ago. During the Bronze age. True that the "proto-Berbers" may be extinct, but the "true" Berber ancestry comes from East Africa based of many things I read: [QUOTE]The Berber languages are relatively well-studied, and it is possible to explore their geographical extent today and in the past, and also reconstruct basic and culturalvocabulary which can be attributed to speakers of proto-Berber. However, there is a major problem reconciling this with textual and archaeological evidence. The proto-Berber we can reconstruct seems to be far to recent to match what we know from other evidence; indeed it seems to reach back to period as late as 200 AD. Textual evidence (and Canarian inscriptions) point to a period prior to 400 BC, while the most credible archaeological correlate would be the spread of pastoralism across the Sahara, pointing to the period 5-4000 BP. The paper explores this disjunction and suggests the underlying reason for it is massive language levelling in the period after 0 AD. In other words, the original speakers of Berber did indeed spread out westwards from the Nile Valley, 5-4000 years ago, but the diversity which evolved in this period was eliminated by a sociolinguistic processes which levelled divergent speech forms. Historical linguists have been wary of invoking such process until recently, but evidence is mounting for their importance in many and varied cultures, including China, Borneo and Madagascar. Hypotheses are evaluated to explain the Berber situation and it is suggested that a combination of the introduction of the camel and the establishment of the Roman limes were the key factors in creating this linguistic bottleneck. [/QUOTE] http://www.rogerblench.info/Archaeology/Africa/Berber%20prehistory%202012.pdf In my honest opinion haplogroup U6 is far too old to be considered a "Berber marker". Most of the Berbers "Eurasian" mtDNA is recent, but also very diverse, but back to U6 I feel its too old. If I remember correctly U6 peaks around 10% in North Africa. I could be wrong, but think I remember reading that somewhere. But more importantly by the time of the arrival of the Berbers the U6 clade would have already undergone a SNP event similar to M1 in the horn, making it local to the region. And also I think in my honest opinion that Berbers are "recipients" of U6 similar to how some Bantu speakers like the Zulu's(I believe) are recipients of y-DNA B. Also U6 is not only found in the Maghreb, but also East Africa such as Kenya and also West Africa. U6 in modern day North Africans seem to reflect a south to north migrate from West African U6 carriers. I CAN BE WRONG ON THIS! Also I think I read Kenyans carry the oldest clade of U6 aka U6a than people of the Maghreb. I can TOO be wrong on this! But the major problem I have is Tuaregs who are considered the "foundation" of Berbers with their high frequency of E-M81 hardly if at all carrying mtDNA U6. Again this is just my own personal theory. I can be wrong... As for modern day Berbers. I agree that they are definitely admixed people. To me modern day Berbers are a result of African males and European women. The Tuaregs are an object example of this. :) [/QB][/QUOTE]
Instant Graemlins
Instant UBB Code™
What is UBB Code™?
Options
Disable Graemlins in this post.
*** Click here to review this topic. ***
Contact Us
|
EgyptSearch!
(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com
Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3