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Origin of modern day Berbers speakers--just facts, no dogma inspired fiction
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: ^No, what you say is a 100% true. U6 is not a Berber marker if you define "Berber" as the original linguistic speaking entity that migrated from East Africa. [/QUOTE]Agreed. But what about Kenyans carry some of the oldest U6 clade. When I said that I wasn't quite sure. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: I think you solved your question. U6 is a Maghrebi hg, the original Berbers weren't Maghrebi populations. If some Berber speaking groups broke away from the main body that was en-route to the Magreb, they will be less likely to have U6. In the case of the Tuareg, one also has to tease apart which lineages Tuareg inherited from Berbers and which they picked up later. There are important differences in Tuareg depending on where you sample them. [/QUOTE]Agreed 100% with this. Mind you Tuareg's themselves aren't really monolithic in origins. Tuaregs from Mali, Algeria and Libya all claim different origins. Though Tuaregs in "general" are considered the founding Berber group. If that makes sense. Tuaregs and some other Berber groups like you said may have broke away from the en route to the Maghreb and instead went toward the Sahara/Sahel. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: You are well on your way, keep doing your thing ;) [/QUOTE]Thanks. :) Glad to be apart of this site. Though some on here say this site fell off(which seems to be that way). But anyways I want to talk about your position of Paleolithic Maghrebis being clustering close to Pre-Historic European population. I do not want to twist your words at all, but this is what I think you and Truthcentric are essentially saying. [QUOTE][b]The FIRST modern humans to reach Europe arrived FROM AFRICA 35,000 to 40,000 years ago. By about 30,000 years ago[/b], they were widespread throughout the area while their close cousins, the Neanderthals, disappeared. [b]HARDLY any of these early hunter-gatherers carried the H haplogroup in their DNA.[/b][/QUOTE] http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130423-european-genetic-history-dna-archaeology-science/ [QUOTE]The Mesolithic–Neolithic transition in southern Iberia Resumen: New data and a review of historiographic information from Neolithic sites of the Malaga and Algarve coasts (southern Iberian Peninsula) and from the Maghreb (North Africa) reveal the existence of a Neolithic settlement at least from 7.5 cal ka BP. The agricultural and pastoralist food producing economy of that population rapidly replaced the coastal economies of the Mesolithic populations. The timing of this population and economic turnover coincided withmajor changes in the continental and marine ecosystems, including upwelling intensity, sea-level changes and increased aridity in the Sahara and along the Iberian coast. These changes likely impacted the subsistence strategies of the Mesolithic populations along the Iberian seascapes and resulted in abandonments manifested as sedimentary hiatuses in some areas during the Mesolithic–Neolithic transition. The rapid expansion and area of dispersal of the early Neolithic traits suggest the use of marine technology. Different evidences for a Maghrebian origin for the first colonists have been summarized. [b]The recognition of an early North-African Neolithic influence in Southern Iberia and the Maghreb is vital for understanding the appearance and development of the Neolithic in Western Europe. Our review suggests links between climate change, resource allocation, and population turnover.[/b][/QUOTE] http://digital.csic.es/handle/10261/93059 What I got from you is that the early Maghrebi population clustered close to Mediterranean population more so than other Africans. But that does not mean the Maghrebi population were not "African" in their own right is just that they clustered more to southern Europeans compared to other Africans. Similar to how East Africans cluster more to Eurasians than say West Africans. Both North and East Africans represent a migration population that began migrating out of the continent. The early Maghrebi population represents a population began migrating into Southern Europe. Is this correct or am I misinterpreting you? For certain they were not wandering Caucasoids like some Eurocentrics want to suggest. [IMG]http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/481366/530wm/C0146147-Mechta-Afalou_hunter_model-SPL.jpg[/IMG] But I'm going to speculate that they looked like this: [IMG]http://worldmusiccentral.org/wp-content/uploads/Tamikrest_6.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-525589-breitwandaufmacher-eosi.jpg[/IMG] Their phenotype is "African", but not "stereotypical" or "tropical African" like those found in the Nile Valley. So it depends on what we call "African", since the African world is large and diverse. Also their skin color to me looks similar to that of the Khoisans of South Africa. Mind you the Khosians adapted to a same enviorment of that of coastal Northwest Africa. [IMG] http://people.virginia.edu/~btm5g/africa_climate.jpg[/IMG] A "Mediterranean" like climate. So I think necessary think its taboo. Anyways I think I went off track with my rambling. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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