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beyoku asks: Which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] Amun-Ra you're wrong Trollkillah teaches that the T/C split occured long before humans left Africa therefore all haplogroups originated inside of Africa Vol I. Myth of the "Non-African" Haplogroup ES Uber club [/qb][/QUOTE]A Haplotype is just a signature, a name to branch. They could have called it the walking duck as well.... Repost! By Bonnie Schrack author at Rootsweb. RootsWeb: GENEALOGY-DNA-L [DNA] Spanish mtDNA and 16223 I originally wrote this in response to Grant's earlier message: Grant wrote: >I know that women pass on mtDNA >as a sealed unit, and the U-2 with >16129-A has a lot of other baggage, >but Spanish mtDNA might explain >the source of that results. It came >from my g-grandmother, Dorah Francisco >MIDDLETON. Francisco was her >middle name, proudly recorded >in several places, and passed on >to one of her sons. But -- I've just now read the followup from Bennett that you forwarded, explaining that what you have is 16129C. I'm so happy for you, and delighted that he was so good about correcting the error! what other mutations it's found with, as I'll explain. As implied by what Ana (below) said, 16129A is a widespread mutation, found in many haplogroups all over the world, including L1a, L1c and M1. Since it's in L1, it can be considered a feature of earliest mtDNA strain coming out of Africa, and the loss of it would constitute a marker of distance from African origins. That is certainly the case with the mutation 16223T>C. Macaulay says, [b]"Eurasian mtDNAs are split, by 16223 C/T, into two substantial classes[/b] (e.g., 16223T is in 7% of Europeans .... and 65% of Mongolians...), [b]whereas Africans predominantly have 16223T [91%...][/b] The 16223T state also characterizes the Neanderthal sequence ... Whether the thymine-cytosine transition, inferred to have occurred around the time of "out-of-Africa" event, happened just once has never been clear... [b][However], there is another T>C transition] at np 12705 that also splits off the 16223C [/b]clusters (J, T, U, H, and V). Thus, we confidently can identify a single common 16223 event, at least for these clusters. ...[i]This is fully consistent with modern Eurasian mtDNA being derived from the 16223[T] sequence (in HVS1) which, during an Upper Paleolithic expansion, gave rise to, among others, clusters A, I, M, W, X, and, after the 16223T-C/12705T-C events, all the Reference-Sequence-derived clusters (e.g., B, F, T, J, U, H, and V) in the concomitant rapid branching of the genealogy."[/i] [b]He refers more than once to the 16223T>C transition as causing a "deep split in the phylogeny."[/b] What does this mean? It means that any time you see an mtDNA haplotype that includes 16223 in its list of mutations, you can assume that it does not belong to U, K (they left that out of their list since it's really a clade of U), T, J, H, V, etc., but instead belongs to one of the less common European groups, I, W, or X, or else one of the many non-European haplogroups who retain this ancestral marker. Since samples 18, 34, 39, and 48 in the Spanish database, who have 16129A, also have 16223T, the ancient African state of that marker, you can be sure they are not in haplogroup U, for example. Since your haplotype does not have 16223[b]T[/b] (but instead 16223[b]C[/b]), you can be pretty sure that you are in one of the haplogroups B, F, T, J, U, K, H, or V. Since you do have the key mutation 16051, and the other typical U2 mutations you can be pretty sure that you're in that haplogroup. For the samples 6, 47, 54, and 90, they have the mutation 16129A, but not 16223T. Thus, we can presume that like you, they are in one of those haplogroups that has the modern 16223C, but one would have to examine their other mutations more carefully to determine which one. Since sample 99 does have 16051, there's a chance that it could be in U2. But it's hard to say for sure, given just this data. And Ana wrote: >Although we are L1c, we also have >16129 A as one of our 13 HVR1 >mutations and we do have documented >direct ancestors from Spain. Do you >have any idea where your great- >grandmother was born or what area >she was from? We could check to >see if anyone with the surname Francisco >is listed in Spain's Archivos de las Indias . . . Searching on the surname Francisco in Spanish records is a worthwhile idea in and of itself, if you want to try that, regardless of the mtDNA involved. I did a tiny bit of research on the Francisco surname. They often intermarried with the Dutch in colonial America, seem to have been French, Belgian, or from the Spanish Netherlands, are reputed to be Huguenots, and many believe them to have Spanish origins, though this isn't clear. I'll send you more off-list. The fact that Ana has 16129A does not link her family particularly to Spain, though. [b]The haplogroup L1c would be indicative of African ancestry, probably in historical times, while, as I mentioned, your U2 mtDNA is Eurasian, and on the other side of the 16223 split from L1c (and L1a, M, etc.)[/b] http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2003-07/1057946048 Apparently the so called C-split 16223C, is found in Africa as well, clustering with old clades. This split they tend to cluster with out of Africa migrations. And since it is out of Africa, and then became predominant, they say it's Eurasian. However, the root is already found within African populations. [QUOTE] [b]Haplogroup L1b roots deeply in the human mtDNA phylogeny and has the characteristic motif 16126, 16187, 16189, 16223, [/b]16264, 16270, 116278, [b]16311. [/b] [...] [/QUOTE]--Frigi et al. Ancient Local Evolution of African mtDNA Haplogroups in Tunisian Berber Populations In addition to IronLion's work: [QUOTE] http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/1077329/7908829/mmc2.xls http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/L0k_genbank_sequences.htm http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v56/n9/extref/jhg201171x2.xls C16223T L0b 16223C, L0d1a 16223C, L0k2 16223C, L1c1a1 16223C, L2d 16223C, L3x2a 16223C, L3e2b 16223C, M1a3b 16223C, M7c3 16223C, N21 16223C, Q1a 16223C, R 16223C, R2a 16223C, U4a2b 16223T, X2h 16223C, D4c1a 16223C, D4g2a1 16223C, D5c2 16223C, B5b1b 16223T, C12705T R- 12705C. [/QUOTE] http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-african-origin-of-the-so-called-caucasians-of-europe-ironlion/ [/QB][/QUOTE]
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