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Of course there were 'Horner' pharaohs
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Truthcentric: [qb] ...wait, Akachi is endorsing melanin supremacism now? Is he intent on digging his own grave deeper than he already has? [/qb][/QUOTE]^^^2 sides of the same coin. Akachi is phoney and make stupid and racist posts. But I don't see how this is different from Swenet, Beyoku, and apparently you, Truthcentric, trying to say Ancient Egpytians were closer to Eurasians than to most African populations like West, Great Lakes and Southern Africa. Trying to revive the debunked Hamitic race myth. [b]All this based on prejudice, racism and knee-jerk reactions.[/b] I can say this is based on prejudice, racism and knee-jerk reactions because genetics, archeological(cultural) and biological anthropology analysis of Ancient Egyptians (well recent studies) show them clustering with African populations in general, not Eurasians. Nobody pretend that modern West Africans or modern East Africans are direct descendants of Ancient Egyptians (at least not to a significative level). Ancient Egyptians were their own people but are still more related to other African populations (West,East,South) than to Eurasians populations. Modern post-dynastic foreign conquests, migrations and demographic expansion changed the ethnic composition and affiliations of modern Egyptians. Modern Horners like Modern Egyptians and modern Africans in general (accent on modern), are the products of demographic changes in the last 6000-8000 years (genetic drift, change in lifestyles, demographic expansion, admixtures, post-dynastic migrations and conquests, etc). Ancient Egyptians are their own people but are more closely related to other African populations than to non-African populations. That is all before those foreign conquests and migrations. This is scientifically speaking. Ancient Egypt is a child of Africa and the Green Sahara. A mostly indigenous African process and development. [b]1) Genetically: [/b]The current ancient DNA analysis of Ancient Egyptians mummy specimen have identified the haplogroup E1b1a for Ramses III and the screaming mummy. Common haplogroup among Sub-Saharan Africans. Autosomal STR have them clustering with Great Lakes, Southern and West Africans. Not Eurasians. This is all from the [URL=http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185393]JAMA[/URL] , [URL=http://www.bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e8268]BMJ[/URL] and [URL=http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2013-02-01.pdf]DNA Tribes studies[/URL] mentioned in this thread and forum. Ancient DNA in general has the best discriminative power to identify related and non-related populations. [b]2) Cultural Archaeology:[/b] Same here, Ancient Egyptian share many cultural characteristic with Ancient Egyptians. It has been demonstrated that Ancient Egypt was mostly the product of an indigenous African development. From their common origin in Eastern Africa, to the Green Sahara culture (Wavy-line pottery), to Nabta Playa, Tasian, Badarian, Naqada. [b]3) Biological Anthropology:[/b] Same here, Ancient Egyptians cluster with modern African populations not modern Eurasian populations. The change in physiology between them and their North-East African ancestors/predecessor is [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008815]related to the change in lifestyles[/URL] and diet and genetic drift. For example, the transition from hunter-gatherers, to pastoralism to agriculture lifestyles. Ancient Egyptians have been demonstrated to be continuous with their North-East African ancestors/predecessors in modern studies. Let's consider the data from this study: [URL=http://www.pnas.org/content/103/1/242.full]The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form by Brace (2005)[/URL] [IMG]http://www.pnas.org/content/103/1/242/F1.medium.gif[/IMG] Fig. 1. Neighbor-joining dendrogram for a series of prehistoric and recent human populations (Craniofacial measures) Clearly, we can see Niger-Congo speakers (Tanzania, Dahomey, Congo), Nubians, Somali, Naqada clustering on the same branch. Completely distinct from modern Eurasian populations like Egypt, Middle East, Italy, France, or Germany. Same for post-cranial analysis: [IMG]http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/brandonpilcher/b9bdb805-bd92-4544-9f56-0ba40133a41f_zpse13095c4.jpg[/IMG] We can see African populations (including East, West Africans and African-Americans) clustering at the top and non-African populations clustering at the bottom. This study has the same analysis: [IMG]http://oi59.tinypic.com/29f6nuu.jpg[/IMG] From Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements by F. X. RICAUT and M. WAELKENS (2008) This [b]affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans[/b] has also been noticed by several other investigators (Angel 1972;Berry and Berry 1967, 1972; Keita 1995) and has been recently reinforced by the study of Brace et al. (2005), which [b]clearly shows that the cranial morphology of prehistoric and recent northeast African populations is linked to sub-Saharan populations (Niger- Congo populations).[/b] This affinity between Ancient and modern Northeastern African populations and Niger-Congo speakers (which form the majority of African people) can also be seen genetically and linguistically. As [b]modern East and West African people (and Ancient Egyptians of course) have a common origin in Eastern Africa well after the Out of Africa migrations of Eurasian people ancestors[/b] . Genetically: Y-DNA: [IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Y-DNA_tree.GIF[/IMG] And here for MtDNA (other L haplogroups were obviously not part of the OOA migrations so I didn't include them in the graph): [IMG]http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y421/amunratheultimate2/Misc/CommongrandmothersofAfricanpeopleforL3only_zps2b5489e6.png[/IMG] It's impossible that ONLY East Africans were genetically closer to Eurasians after the OOA migrations (before any admixtures) if they share a common Y-DNA grandfather and common mtDNA grandmothers with other African populations but not with Eurasians. It's impossible. The genetic structure at the moment of the OOA migrations was between the L3 haplogroup carriers and non-L3 haplogroup carriers. As well as CT carriers and non-CT carriers. Both L3 and CT haplogroups unites most modern African people including East and West Africans. Other African people and haplogroup are related to them through admixtures. Linguistically: All modern African languages family, including Niger-Congo have their ancient origin in North-Eastern Africa: [IMG]http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y421/amunratheultimate2/Misc/GeooriginofAfricanLanguages-Chap12-ReconstructingAncientKinshipinAfricaChristopherEhret_zps1d45d560.jpg[/IMG] From:Reconstructing Ancient Kinship in Africa by Christopher Ehret (From Early Human Kinship, Chap 12) [b]Ultimately, most African people, including Somali, Yoruba and Ancient Egyptians share a common origin in North-Eastern Africa at a time period after the OOA migrations of non-Africans.[/b] Other threads of interests: http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008815 http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008903 http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009018 [/QB][/QUOTE]
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