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Son of Ra
Member # 20401
 - posted
I was watching an argument and then arguing with someone on the site Historum. Anyways that person posted this.
quote:
Egypt’s central location between Europe, the Middle East, and Africa likely contributed to its genetic diversity. Numerous studies have analyzed population variation of Ancient Egyptians to establish their origins. Debate about its affinity has historically focused on ancestry and the effects of migration into Egypt from the Nubian corridor, Red Sea littoral, and the eastern Mediterranean. While these regions surely contributed to Egypt’s diversity, few studies have examined how this manifested in a particular location. What might the “local data” indicate about the broader implications of diverse morphometric expression?

For this research, 16 cranial measurements were collected from 3D computed tomography models of 25 Egyptian mummies, most of which originated from Akhmim and primarily date to the Ptolemaic Period. Individuals were classified using discriminant function analysis and cluster analysis into the Howells’ Craniometric Data Bank. These results were then situated within our current understanding of Egyptian population affinity.

The results suggest a high degree of heterogeneity. Seven individuals classified as Egyptian, while three classified into another African group and nine classified into Asian groups. Using cluster analysis, most individuals grouped within Howells’ Egyptians with the exception of one. The proximity of the Arabian Peninsula to Egypt and the narrowness of the Red Sea likely facilitated the migration of populations from Eastern and Western Asia into Egypt. The high percentage of individuals (36%) that classified into an Asian group rather than the Egyptian, African, or European samples may also suggest a greater influx of groups from the East then previously considered.

http://meeting.physanth.org/program/2015/session09/klales-2015-craniometric-variation-in-ancient-egypt-and-influences-from-the-east.html

This study is weird to me. It was during the Ptolemaic Period but the skulls are from upper egypt and in their samples they separate Egyptians from Africans.
 
Ish Gebor
Member # 18264
 - posted
..."most of which originated from Akhmim and primarily date to the Ptolemaic Period"...

This is pre-dynastic, it's old and well known. Nothing special was revealed.


@SOR, "This study is weird to me. It was during the Ptolemaic Period but the skulls are from upper egypt and in their samples they separate Egyptians from Africa"


Do you this the "study" is political motivated, to proof a point?
 
Son of Ra
Member # 20401
 - posted
^I think the guy might be our very own Faheemdunker/Caveman.
 
Swenet
Member # 17303
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
This study is weird to me. It was during the Ptolemaic Period but the skulls are from upper egypt and in their samples they separate Egyptians from Africans.

There is nothing weird about it, at all. We already know this happens under such conditions. Not just with ancient Egyptian crania, but with crania from this region in GENERAL. (That's what that guy on Historum 'forgot' to point out in his BS attempt to try to make Egyptians out to be non-Africans—that such results aren't unique to Egyptians). See what happened when the Meroitic sample was subjected to FORDISC, for instance.

Forensic Misclassification of Ancient Nubian Crania: Implications for Assumptions about Human Variation
http://www.anthropology.emory.edu/FACULTY/ANTGA/Web%20Site/PDFs/CurrAnth%202005%20Williams%20et%20Forensic.pdf

Do you really still expect at this point that all Egyptian crania should have gone in the Zulu or Teita category?

This forum doesn't prepare you for results like this because some "vets" are blind and leading the blind. Then you get results like this and people panic or they try to act like there was somehow something wrong or unexpected about the results.

[Roll Eyes]

quote:
It was during the Ptolemaic Period but the skulls are from upper egypt and in their samples they separate Egyptians from Africans.
What do you mean with this. That they subtly treat ancient Egyptians as Eurasian immigrants?
 
Son of Ra
Member # 20401
 - posted
No I don't expect the Egyptians to have cranio similar to those two African groups but the poster tried to claim that Akhmim was still unmixed.


Heres what the poster posted.
quote:
The inhabitants of Akhmim during Ptolemaic Egypt mixed far less with outsiders than the other Egyptian cities and did not adopt much foreign (Greek) culture; this was one of the benefits of the study as Klales mentions:

"Therefore, it can be assumed that the population of Akhmim from the Ptolemaic period would have remained more biologically stable, despite in-migrations, than other areas of Egypt at this time and comparisons can be drawn to investigate population continuity and change in the entirety of Egypt." (Klales, 2014)

"In Ptolemaic times, when Egypt was governed by a dynasty of Macedonian origin
imbued with the cultural values of pan-Hellenism, Akhmim remained firmly in the “native Egyptian” societal sphere." (Chan et al. 2008)

Regardless, the study included some earlier skulls (see above); AMSC 29 dates to the First Intermediate Period (c. 2181 - c. 2055 BCE) and its closest craniometric affinity is with a non-African population.

Another point, Afrocentrists seem to spam that dendogram from Kemp (2006) without looking very closely, i.e. note how New Kingdom skulls (c. 1550 - 1077 BCE) from Thebes cluster with ancient Levantines and 'modern' Egyptians.


 
Swenet
Member # 17303
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Son of Ra:
No I don't expect the Egyptians to have cranio similar to those two African groups but the poster tried to claim that Akhmim was still unmixed.

Just a minor note (which I'm assuming you already know) but just so my point in my previous post doesn't get lost. 'Similar' is a broad word so you could say that a subsection of the Egyptian sample (the 3/25 mentioned by that poster and a few other crania) was similar to those African samples.

I still don't understand what you find weird about the results, but never mind.
 



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