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They have Hannibal Barca as black again and Eurocentrics are mad again
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Antalas: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by BrandonP: [qb] Bumping this thread again, with a screencap and link to the study on Punic remains from Ibiza that Swenet cited earlier: [URL=https://raco.cat/index.php/Mayurqa/article/download/122749/169902/0]The presence of African individuals in Punic populations from the Island of Ibiza (Spain): contributions from physical anthropology[/URL] By my count, over half the Punic Ibizan crania classify as "Black" (i.e. they physically resemble African-Americans) according to this analysis. Though, in the interest of fairness, a later study on aDNA from Punic Ibizan samples showed mostly European mtDNAs, with the one Punic genome they were able to sequence showing more European than North African genetic affinity. [URL=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y]Ancient DNA of Phoenician remains indicates discontinuity in the settlement history of Ibiza[/URL] [QUOTE]Ibiza was permanently settled around the 7th century BCE by founders arriving from west Phoenicia. The founding population grew significantly and reached its height during the 4th century BCE. We obtained nine complete mitochondrial genomes from skeletal remains from two Punic necropoli in Ibiza and a Bronze Age site from Formentara. We also obtained low coverage (0.47X average depth) of the genome of one individual, directly dated to 361–178 cal BCE, from the Cas Molí site on Ibiza. We analysed and compared ancient DNA results with 18 new mitochondrial genomes from modern Ibizans to determine the ancestry of the founders of Ibiza. The mitochondrial results indicate a predominantly recent European maternal ancestry for the current Ibizan population while the whole genome data suggest a significant Eastern Mediterranean component. Our mitochondrial results suggest a genetic discontinuity between the early Phoenician settlers and the island’s modern inhabitants. [qb]Our data, while limited, suggest that the Eastern or North African influence in the Punic population of Ibiza was primarily male dominated.[/qb][/QUOTE]Though I should point out that, with the exception of Puig des Molins, most of the Ibizan sites from which these genetic samples were obtained appear to be different locations from the ones from which the crania in the older study came. So there is the possibility that, were aDNA recovered from the crania analyzed in the first study, the results might look different from what you see in the second study. [/qb][/QUOTE]The study you posted doesn't say they looked black but show SSA affinities like modern north africans. They didn't actually use any north african sample in this study, read : [QUOTE]Measurements were then introduced into the forensic discriminant programme FORDISC 2.0 (Ousley and Jantz, 1996). This programme was selected as it contains data from [b]samples with a European Caucasoid background as well as data from individuals with a sub-Saharan ancestry[/b] [...] [b]Only two of its categories were used[/b] , determined by the nature of the research and the geographical and chronological background of Ibiza: [b]‘American Blacks’[/b] with a reference sample of 150 males and 125 females, and [b]‘American Whites’[/b] with 271 males and 195 females (Ousley and Jantz, 1996). Therefore, the study assumed that each skull belonged to either group. [/QUOTE]Again read carefully : [QUOTE] [b]Even if the skull comes from a group identity different to those in the database, which is the case of the Ibizan material, the programme will still classify the specimen with the closest group available (Ubelaker, 1998: 131). Also, the system is based on American populations. No North African samples are available in the database. Caution applying FORDISC 2.0 to non-American ancient populations has been highlighted elsewhere[/b] (see Ubelaker et al., 2002). [/QUOTE]The reconstruction they propose doesn't look black but north african : [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/hsonlTI.png?1[/IMG] [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=013252]I already made a thread about craniometric results of punics[/URL] Moreover why did you avoid the autosomal result we have from one ibiza punic ? : [QUOTE]The Ibiza Phoenician individual published in 50 232 is not consistent with forming a clade with any of the Bronze233 Age individuals from the Balaeric islands newly reported in this study, and indeed we find that she234 can not be modeled even with our least parsimonious model of 4 distal sources. [b]However, when we235 add in a North African source of ancestry, we can fit her as a two-way mix of 18.8 ± 7.9%236 Anatolia_Neolithic and 81.2 ± 7.9% Morocco_LN ancestry (p=0.141) (Supplementary Materials). We237 also can fit the Ibiza Phoenician as two-way mixture of a variety of groups closer to her in time one238 of which is always Morocco_LN.[/b] While several of these models include a Balaeric Island Bronze Age239 source, we cannot rule out the possibility that the Ibiza Phoenician individual has no local Balaeric240 ancestry at all. Specifically, we find that we can fit her with models that do not have a Balaeric241 source and that instead have Balaeric Bronze Age individuals in the outgroups (e.g. (e.g. 17.1 ±242 3.5% France_Bell_Beaker and 82.9 ± 3.5% Morocco_LN, p=0.869) (Supplementary Table 11)." [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Considering that in qpWave this individual did not form a clade with the other Balearic individuals, it is possible that these models represent an unsampled group. [b]These results clearly demonstrate a link to North African ancestry in the Phoenician settlement of the Balearic Islands.[/b] [/QUOTE] https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41559-020-1102-0/MediaObjects/41559_2020_1102_MOESM1_ESM.pdf [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=013265]Here I made another thread with more genetic stuff on carthaginians and here again nothing "black" about them [/URL] Try again. [/qb][/QUOTE]The point they are making is this was a mixed population and elements of that population would have had black African features. According to you "North Africans" are a monolithic population that only look one way and have only one set of features. This is not supported by any facts on the ground. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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