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The genetic structure of the world’s first farmers - Iosif Lazaridis
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [qb] Another thread? A lot of people on this forum like walking around with artificial uncertainties, trying to keep things that can be resolved right away open-ended forever. PC Sereno et al 2008 have a good sample of Green Sahara and coastal Maghrebi populations and they've published their measurements. Measurements of Naqada and Badari populations are also available online. All one needs is initiative. PC Sereno et al 2008 Lakeside Cemeteries in the Sahara: 5000 Years of Holocene Population and Environmental Change http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0002995 There is really no reason why we shouldn't have closed in on the general outlines of population affinity by now. [/qb][/QUOTE]Well, I'm a bit of a late comer on this site and I'm not aware which topics have been thoroughly addressed already. But anyways like I said I believe Ancient Egypt was a microcosm of the Green Sahara and Nile Valley. For one I believe Nilotic speaking people are the oldest people on the Nile Vally and would represent the Nile Valley origins of the Ancient Egyptians. [QUOTE]Accordingly, through limited on number of aDNA samples, [b]there is enough data to suggest and to tally with the historical evidence of the dominance by Nilotic elements during the early state formation in the Nile Valley, and as the states thrived there was a dominance by other elements particularly Nuba / Nubians.[/b] In Y-chromosome terms this mean in simplest terms introgression of the YAP insertion (haplogroups E and D), and Eurasian Haplogroups which are defined by F-M89 against a background of haplogroup A-M13.[/QUOTE] http://etd2.uofk.edu/view_etd.php?etd_details=4312 I think I even recall S.O.Y Keita even stating that the early periods of predynastic Egypt was dominated by Nilotic type people, but were then later absorbed by migrating Afro-Asiatic people. Additionally one can only look to their cattle raising background which has more common with modern day Nilotic groups like those from Southern Sudan. As for the Green Sahara I thoroughly assume that the Green Sahara was the incubator for African culture/civilizations. Anyways, I suspect that the animal head cults that the Ancient Egyptians believed in came from the Sahara. [QUOTE]Art of the Egyptian Nile flourished much later than that of Saharan and Sudan Africa. The Sahara representations of oxen with discs between their horns is much earlier than those of the cow-goddess Hathor. The hawk delicately carved on the sandstone plaque of Hammada el Guir is much earlier than the ram of Amon [known from the 12th Dynasty onwards]. When Andre Malraux looked at the animal heads at Oued Djera, he considered them to be "forerunners of the Egyptian animal deities." The same no doubt holds for the bird-headed goddess at Jabbaran. Semi-naturalism only appears in Egypt in the Gerzean period and is derived from Saharan ox period carvings ... Egypt had a tremendous influence on the interior of Africa ... but what is even more certain is that the prehistoric civilizations of the Sahara is earlier in time ... It was only from the so-called "historic" period onwards that Egyptian civilization achieved that splendor as a result of which everything is now attributed. But where art and technology is concerned, the focal points were originally in the modern republic of the Sudan, in East Africa, and the Near East. Moreover, the prehistoric Sudan owed much more to southeastern influence that to those from the Near East (1981:676).[/QUOTE] http://www.highculture.8m.com/ADAS1.htm There would have not only been Nilo-Saharan speakers in the Sahara at the time, but also Afro-Asiatic and even ancestors of Niger-Congo speakers. From what I read before the desertification of the Sahara you would have had a mixing of different Africans. There has been some evidence from a DNA standpoint that puts majority of West African lineages in East Africa i.e the region of Ethiopia. This is also where the father of both main groups of Africans originated (PN2 sub-clade), these two high frequency sub-clades the E-M2 (now V38) and E-M215/M35 are the most widespread high frequency subclades in Africa. E-M2 which is carried by mostly Niger-Congo speakers is the most wide spread African lineage on continent but is mostly associated with West Africans. From what I read you can find pockets of it in the Sahara and you can find in high frequency in Upper Egypt. However the clade is not really seen in Sudan We do know that Ramses III was tested positive for E-M2. My opinion is that E-M2 in Upper Egypt and the one in King Ramses is remnants from the Green Sahara. As for Afro-Asiatic speakers they would have definitely been represented in the Green Sahara especially Berber speaking groups. Also many of the modern lineages in horners if I remember correctly come from Egypt. I also think a non-Berber group of Afro-Asiatic would have entered Egypt from the East and introduced Afro-Asiatic later i.e around the dynastic period. For now I'll go and say that my theory is that Lower Egypt near the delta represented people from the Levant. Northwest Egypt represented Berber speakers from the Green Sahara. The Eastern desert of Egypt represented Afro-Asiatic speakers similar to the Beja. During the early formation of Egypt, it would have been dominated by more "Sudanese" or Nilotic like people but then they would have been asborbed probably Afro-Asiatic speakers especially by the time of the New Kingdom. But those types would have dominated Upper Egypt. Finally I believe you would have small sprinkles of ancestors Niger-Congo speakers(Sahelian/Saharan Nilo-Saharans) in Southwest Egypt who a remnants of the Green Sahara. But more importantly these people would have probably been mixing in Egypt and because of this while I believe the Ancient Egyptians would have been indigenous Africans, they would have had their own unique phenotypes. I'll stop there for now. This is my theory and I know I need more evidence posted. I personally believe in my honest opinuon that the Natufians were more related to Afro-Asiatic speaking Egyptian people from the Red Sea coast of Egypt and Sudan. To me that makes sense. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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