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DO NOT pic spam I want to discuss this question on a different level. Now obviously I trust wiki very loosely/sparsely, and it says that Moors were Berber and Arabs. What physical data do we have on moors that suggests they were black. With AE we have cranial research, genetic research, etc. I don't mind some written information about early moors but I'd prefer to know where research has gone on physical data.
Elmaestro Member # 22566
posted
You answered your own question right here... "and it says that Moors were Berber and Arabs" Berbers aren't monolithic, they consist of Arabs, Maghrebs, and west Africans...
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: You answered your own question right here... "and it says that Moors were Berber and Arabs" Berbers aren't monolithic, they consist of Arabs, Maghrebs, and west Africans...
who were west African Berber speakers (that were moors???)
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: You answered your own question right here... "and it says that Moors were Berber and Arabs" Berbers aren't monolithic, they consist of Arabs, Maghrebs, and west Africans...
who were west African Berber speakers (that were moors???)
Mauretania (also spelled Mauritania)[ was in ancient times a part of North Africa corresponding to the Mediterranean coast of what is today Morocco (and the Spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla).
Mauretania originally was an independent tribal Berber kingdom from around the 3rd century BC. It became a client state of the Roman Empire in 33 BC, then a full Roman province after the death of its last king Ptolemy of Mauretania in AD 40.
Mauretania existed as a tribal kingdom of the Mauri people. Mauri (Μαῦροι) is recorded as the native name by Strabo in the early 1st century. This appellation was also adopted into Latin, whereas the Greek name for the tribe was Maurusii (Μαυρούσιοι).The Mauri would later bequeath their name to the Moors on the Mediterranean coast of North Africa, from at least the 3rd century BC.
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go to google images and look up Mauretanian coins
note the spelling of the word above is different from the modern state spelling "Mauritania" (5th letter "i" )
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: You answered your own question right here... "and it says that Moors were Berber and Arabs" Berbers aren't monolithic, they consist of Arabs, Maghrebs, and west Africans...
who were west African Berber speakers (that were moors???)
Mauretania (also spelled Mauritania)[ was in ancient times a part of North Africa corresponding to the Mediterranean coast of what is today Morocco (and the Spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla).
Mauretania originally was an independent tribal Berber kingdom from around the 3rd century BC. It became a client state of the Roman Empire in 33 BC, then a full Roman province after the death of its last king Ptolemy of Mauretania in AD 40.
Mauretania existed as a tribal kingdom of the Mauri people. Mauri (Μαῦροι) is recorded as the native name by Strabo in the early 1st century. This appellation was also adopted into Latin, whereas the Greek name for the tribe was Maurusii (Μαυρούσιοι).The Mauri would later bequeath their name to the Moors on the Mediterranean coast of North Africa, from at least the 3rd century BC.
_________________________________
go to google images and look up Mauretanian coins
note the spelling of the word above is different from the modern state spelling "Mauritania" (5th letter "i" )
"The Mauri would later bequeath their name to the Moors"
What is the source and who is the author?
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
Although the attempt of Zobel de Zangroniz to disprove the African origin of the regal coins of Numidia has failed (see Babelon, loc. cit.), much uncertainty still attaches to their distribution among the various kings :—Masinissa (B.C. 202-148); his sons Micipsa (148-118), Gulussa (148-140?), and Mastanabal (148-140?); his grandsons Adherbal (118-112). Hiempsal I (118-116), and Jugurtha (118-106); and his great-grandson Hiempsal II (106-60).
The coinage of the Roman Empire for the three and a half centuries following the death of Julius Caesar in 44 BC is conventionally classified by scholars as either ‘Roman imperial coinage’ or as ‘Roman provincial coinage’. The imperial coinage was produced under imperial authority, mostly at Rome in the Antonine period, and circulated widely.
Coins struck in the name of cities represent the most common type of provincial coinage. Except for a small number of silver issues, cities produced bronze coins, which circulated locally and provided the majority of small change in the Eastern half of the Roman Empire. During the Julio-Claudian period civic bronze coins were also made in the West, in Spain, Gaul, Italy, Sardinia, Sicily, Africa Proconsularis, and Mauretania, but by the Antonine period civic coinage was an exclusively eastern phenomenon. Cities sometimes struck issues to celebrate ‘alliances’ with another city (or sometimes more than one).
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why are you posting coins in bad condition when there are coins from the same period in better condition?
why are you posting a coins depicting Roman emperors when there are coins depicting Mauretanians?
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
"Moor" was a term applied by Europeans to all Muslims living in North Africa regardless of if they were Arab or African. The people themselves did not call themselves "moors". There are also the terms "tawny moor" and blackamoor" which date around the 16th century
However in the modern nation of today Mauritania the Beydanes are also called the "white moors" (although they most often of yellowish brown or lighter brown skin and the dark skinned Haratins are also called the "black moors"
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
Reading up on Haratins it seems they're characterized as slaves or a former slave caste that were underneath the moors/arabs. What evidence is available that shows the Haratins participated as members of the upper class?
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
The terms "white moors" and "black moors" in Mauritania today do not necessarily correspond to the usage in the time of the "Moorish empire" as described by Europeans
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: why are you posting coins in bad condition when there are coins from the same period in better condition?
why are you posting a coins depicting Roman emperors when there are coins depicting Mauretanians?
I posted coins like that because they are like that, in Mauretania.
I asked:
"The Mauri would later bequeath their name to the Moors"
What is the source and who is the author?
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "Moor" was a term applied by Europeans to all Muslims living in North Africa regardless of if they were Arab or African. The people themselves did not call themselves "moors". There are also the terms "tawny moor" and blackamoor" which date around the 16th century
However in the modern nation of today Mauritania the Beydanes are also called the "white moors" (although they most often of yellowish brown or lighter brown skin and the dark skinned Haratins are also called the "black moors"
Αἰθίοψ , οπος, ὁ, fem. Αἰθιοπίς , ίδος, ἡ （Αἰθίοψ as fem., A.Fr.328, 329): pl.
A. “Αἰθιοπῆες” Il.1.423, whence nom. “Αἰθιοπεύς” Call.Del.208: (αἴθω, ὄψ):—properly, Burnt-face, i.e. Ethiopian, negro, Hom., etc.; prov., Αἰθίοπα σμήχειν 'to wash a blackamoor white', Luc.Ind. 28.
2. a fish, Agatharch.109.
II. Adj., Ethiopian, “Αἰθιοπὶς γλῶσσα” Hdt.3.19; “γῆ” A.Fr.300, E.Fr.228.4: Subst. Αἰθιοπίς, ἡ, title of Epic poem in the Homeric cycle; also name of a plant, silver sage, Salvia argentea, Dsc.4.104:— also Αἰθιόπιος , α, ον, E.Fr.349: Αἰθιοπικός , ή, όν, Hdt., etc.; Αἰ. κύμινον, = ἄμι, Hp.Morb.3.17, Dsc. 3.62:—Subst. Αἰθιοπία , ἡ, Hdt., etc. 2. red-brown, AP7.196 (Mel.), cf. Ach. Tat.4.5.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Reading up on Haratins it seems they're characterized as slaves or a former slave caste that were underneath the moors/arabs. What evidence is available that shows the Haratins participated as members of the upper class?
Haratins descent from farmers and are looked down upon because of this. The Haratins are considered a low class because of this.
A Thousand Years Ago In Mauritania - Kamal El Mekki
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: DO NOT pic spam I want to discuss this question on a different level. Now obviously I trust wiki very loosely/sparsely, and it says that Moors were Berber and Arabs. What physical data do we have on moors that suggests they were black. With AE we have cranial research, genetic research, etc. I don't mind some written information about early moors but I'd prefer to know where research has gone on physical data.
Just read Dana M. Reynolds' blog afroasiatics.blogspot.com , read through it all (lots of information) and check the notes, there's plenty of books being quoted.
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