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Because some fools don't know how to make their own thread about the race of kemet
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by JoshuaConnerMoon: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by sudaniya: [qb] This whole thread has gone off the rails. It's a mess. The troll has no leg to stand on and is just wasting our time. He does not even dispute the fact that Upper Egyptians were/are closely related to other "eastern Saharans" like North Sudanese and the people of the Horn. To concede Upper Egypt is to lose the debate before it has even begun. :D :p The people of Upper Egypt were physically, linguistically and culturally related to other populations in Northeast Africa and stem from a common origin in the Predynastic period. This is not disputed by any serious, rational person in any of the disciplines. It was a "Sudanese transplant" Upper Egypt created the Egyptian civilization and established virtually all its political and cultural features; Upper Egyptians conquered the sparsely populated, disorganised, weaker and poorer North; Upper Egyptians were the demographic majority, and since they resembled (still do) other Northeast Africans... there is nothing to debate. The ancient Egyptians were black like other Northeast Africans. [/qb][/QUOTE]My position is summarised by this quote- "Lower Egyptian groups have tended to pool more with European and Mediterranean groups, while Upper Egyptians are biologically more similar to southern African groups. The geographic proximity of Lower Egyptians to the Mediterranean Sea and of Upper Egyptians to Nubia likely explains the phenotypic and genotypic differences between the two areas." (Klales, 2014) Taken as a whole, Egypt plots intermediate between Sudan, in the south, and the east-Mediterranean, in he north. But when you examine Lower/Upper Egypt individually you find them closest to their neighbours. Concerning terminology, Brace et al. call Egyptians as "[indigenous] Egyptians" and nothing else. They criticize the term "African". How many studies on ancient Greeks call them biologically "European"? None I know of for the simple reason Europe is not homogenous culturally/genetically, so using the term "European" is too simplistic and not appropriate. This is also why I avoid calling Egyptians, Africans (in a biological context). [/qb][/QUOTE]This actually confirms what we have been saying here, all along. The Lower Egyptians have admixture or are at times completely foreign to indigenous native / ancient Egyptians. [QUOTE] [i]Secondly, there remains discourse as to whether Upper Egyptian groups share a population history with the Lower Egyptian groups or if each area shares a more similar population biology with another non-Egyptian group than with each other. Greene (1981) notes a prevalent North-South phenotypic cline in the [b]modern Egyptian population[/b], specifically in cranial form and skin color. [/i] […] Lower Egyptian groups have tended to pool more with European and Mediterranean groups, while Upper Egyptians are biologically more similar to southern African groups (Morton 1844 as found in Keita 1993, Howells 1973, Hillson 1978, Kieta 1990). […] Historically estimates of ancient Egyptian stature have been based on total mummy bundle length (Smith 1912). More recently Trotter and Gleser’s (1958) equation for “Negro” populations replaced the use of bundle length. The “Negro” equations have been used as opposed to the “White” equations, because the limb proportions of dynastic Egyptians are more similar to groups of African rather than Caucasian descent (Robins and Shute 1983, Zakrzewski 2003). Furthermore, the limb proportions in ancient Egyptians has remained relatively stable through time and show no evidence of variation related to class (Zakrzewski 2003, Raxter et al. 2008). A modified version of the Trotter and Gleser equation was presented by Robins and Shute for ancient Egyptians (1986). [/QUOTE]—Klales, (2014) [QUOTE] Coming down to Thebes in Upper Egypt, then going northwards over Assiut, Akhmim and Bani Suëf and at last reaching the Delta the areas being reached by the floods in ancient times highly increase and the qualities of their soil are much better than in the southern regions (Picture 3). [/QUOTE] http://www.uni-koeln.de/sfb389/a/a5/a5_main.htm [QUOTE] "...sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine. [b]The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans[/b]." [/QUOTE]--Barry Kemp, Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation.( Routledge. p. 52-60)(2005) [QUOTE] [b]Outside influence and admixture with extra-regional groups primarily occurred in Lower Egypt perhaps during the later dynastic, but especially in Ptolmaic and Roman times [/b](also Irish, 2006). No large-scale population replacement in the form of a foreign dynastic ‘race’ (Petrie, 1939) was indicated. Our results are generally consistent with those of Zakrzewski (2007). [/QUOTE]—Irish JD et al. (2006, 2009) "Further analysis of the population history of ancient Egyptians". American Journal of Physical Anthropology [QUOTE] “While commonly believed to represent Greek settlers in Egypt, the Faiyum portraits instead reflect the complex synthesis of the predominant Egyptian culture and that of the elite Greek minority in the city. According to Walker, the early Ptolemaic Greek colonists married local women and adopted Egyptian religious beliefs, and by Roman times, their descendants were viewed as Egyptians by the Roman rulers, despite their own self-perception of being Greek. The dental morphology of the Roman-period Faiyum mummies was also compared with that of earlier [b]The dental morphology of the Roman-period Faiyum mummies was also compared with that of earlier Egyptian populations, and was found to be "much more closely akin" to that of ancient Egyptians than to Greeks or other European populations.[/b]“ [/QUOTE]—Irish JD et al. (2006). "Who were the ancient Egyptians? Dental affinities among Neolithic through postdynastic peoples". Am J Phys Anthropol 129 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16331657 [/QB][/QUOTE]
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