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Ancient Egyptians DNA is Less Sub Saharan than modern Egyptian DNA.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Elmaestro: [QB] This man here, smh. :confused: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: Not too long he was trying to lecture Nodnarb about how E carriers must necessarily be SSA in autosomal makeup. A week later the same turd flip flopped from lecturing, to asking questions how come Natufians don't cluster like a typical hybrid SSA population in light of their E haplogroups. One cannot know and not know at the same time. Either you know, or you don't know. Typical newbie trying to flip flop flop from lecturing to leeching information (which he will then use to lecture people again a day later). Amun Ra all over again. [/QUOTE]Wow I completely missed this before, way to dry quote me... [i]-I had no clue what this man was even referring to so I did some backtracking and started to investigate my previous posts-[/i]... I'm guessing, [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009574;p=2#000068]this is where I told Nodnarb that ALL E carriers are "Autosomally Subsaharan African"[/URL] ... I don't know if I should think of you as confused, or an untruthful P.O.S. for misquoting me intentionally. Also, I'm guessing [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009524;p=2]Right here is where I'm asking "how come Natufians don't cluster...etc."[/URL] granted that yes, it might have been lazy to not just speak on the issue in the first place... But I was asking a question I already knew the answer to, which should have been evident by my follow up response, but like I said, confused or dishonest... Moving on though, since that last [i]"quote"[/i] was relevant nonetheless, ..for the benefit of readership. The YRI – Natufian relationship is important because it highlights something which at its core displays the issues we have in a lack of understanding/exposure to prehistoric African events, whether it is migration, expansion, mortality etc. Typically we’ll see genetic distance between SSA(YRI) and non-Africans consistent with a drop off of diversity or a bottleneck probably 70-50,kya +/- geneflow from neighboring African regions. Natufians have diverged OOA roughly >14,000 ya (predicted Yhg diverged 17.5-19kya), from a presumably African population, yet displays a strong distance from supposed African populations. (According to Lazaridis et al 2016. more distance than CHG for example, a population predicted to have diverged over 50kya.) This distance was probably generated by drift, indicative of a small baseline population prior to divergence. The affinity for Eurasian population groups such as East Asian is due to geneflow from early Eurasian Hunter Gatherers, which of course would also drag Natufian distance away from Africans, (Mota). Sources cited. ^ [i]Off course disparity is amplified by a more Diverse initial sample set as well. [/i] But now we have to ask ourselves, if EEF/ENF (Early Farmers) diverged after the great bottlenecks from OOA and were probably originally in Africa how can they achieve such high levels of drift? I won’t blame anyone for postulating that an Isolated Green Saharan culture is responsible, but I haven’t seen strong evidence for that outside of a loose interpretation of Ehrets proto- Afroasiatic Model. Lazaridis skipped out on North African populations but where are the remaining African population display of admixture from this source 20-14kya? Basal Eurasian might have had its origins within Africa but it seems (to me at least) Undeniable that it became refined OOA. This is why I believe that it will be hard to distinguish the phantom Pre-OOA EEF, for if the genetic event happened outside of the continent, what’ll be the explanation for indigenous population’s carrying those signatures. West African populations haven’t been static since the dispersals of OOA populations, they most likely were part of demographic shifts and multiple mixtures from waves of migrations, and we can easily see that by looking at the Yhgs represented in the West African samples, it’s not an unchanging population. High levels of diversity and variation was retained by a large population size and waves of recombination. With that being said it’d be foolish to treat the YRI/West African sample set like we would a Eurasian one… for example, coming to the conclusion that some Yorubans migrated to India because the population draws a closer affinity to YRI than usual. Granted looking at lazaridis et al. 2016, most will figure, West Africans were probably mixing at low levels with Levantines because YRI outscores MOTA for natufian. But not really, [b]most likely what’s happening is a younger population mixed with EEF with “YRI-like” ancestry and or the results are of a parallel instance of geneflow (flow from a single source in both YRI and EEF)[/b]. From my position based on the pattern I see over all, [b]I’m estimating that an “undefined” population indistinguishable in E.Bantu or Nilo-Saharan populations, and other eastern Africans, served as a primer between what we consider West Africa and the east-north east Africa, during or before the Bantu expansion.[/b] The enigmatic source of Eurasian admixture in East Africa is also peculiar, as for what it’s worth, these signals are from the “Near east,” no further than the Levant in the Luhya (LWK). Luhya for example shows evidence of “Eurasian” admixture but like Basal European shows no/low Neanderthal ancestry. [i] [QUOTE] [IMG]https://s22.postimg.org/r3r6f1rgx/Ancient_genome_drift_parameters.png[/IMG] “The last edge added corresponds to a mixture of an Iceman-related population and the Bantu-speaking Luhya (LWK) from Eastern Africa (w= 0.03). The LWK have previously been reported as showing a signal of gene flow of possible Neolithic Middle Eastern or European origin” – M. Sikora 2014. [URL=https://postimg.org/image/snkgqq6nn/] [IMG]https://s21.postimg.org/snkgqq6nn/Admixture_event_and_times.png[/IMG][/URL] 10.1073/pnas.1313787111 [/QUOTE]10.1371/journal.pgen.1004353.g004[/i] At the end of the day to simplify things, any recent YRI-Like signals found in the ancient Neolithic will be shared with some east African groups who might even show more affinity to ancient samples. (Not saying LWK = PreOOA Basal Eurasian… but it is evident that they have more admixture from populations “involved” in north & east Africa.) [i]For example, E-Bantu-like ancestry > YRI for [b]western North African admixture[/b] dating to an estimate 1.3kya (see img below)[/i]. We won’t be finding ancient E-M33/E-m132 west African haplogroups on the north eastern corner of the continent or Levant, nor would we find Atlantic A groups that are a part of the west African genome (YRI), [b]but we will find downstream B-M182 dispersed accordingly throughout the Near East AND East Africa (incl. LWK) for example. And we will also find more recent post-P-N2 Hgs[/b], in fact we have found M2 in north eastern Africa, the oldest E-M2 specimen in the world so far was discovered on the Nile. (sources cited on ES... by everyone) [IMG]https://s24.postimg.org/7vhskccj9/mixture_estimates_Henn.png[/IMG] [i] 10.1371/journal.pgen.1002397[/i] --- It seems like a mistake to use YRI as the end it all so-called “SSA” admixture indicator, due to the fact that it oversimplifies said demographic. YRI will form its own cluster for the simple fact that its variation trumps most other non-African and admixed African populations. So it’s approached as an Anti-Eurasian Sample set, The LWK however simultaneously shows signals for admixture, but still shows more variation unshared with global populations… So what does that tells us? [QUOTE] [IMG]https://s7.postimg.org/4hfnaq3bv/Worldpolymorphisms_using_major_populations.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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