quote:"Eighteenth-century ads in Charlestown newpapers for runaways tell us that slaves from the Senegambia (and Guinea) were the tallest and (along [End Page 326] with the Ibo) lighter-skinned. Many runaways spoke foreign languages, implying mobility in Africa, and played musical instruments, including the violin. Senegambians appeared perhaps less often in ads as runaways because they seem to have been used more as house servants with less chance of running away than a field hand. Slightly more than half the African names in the South Carolina Gazette from 1732 to 1775 seem to have been Tshiluba names, implying a Bantu heritage, but names from Angola and Gambia were significant. However, figuring out the ethnic heritage of African names requires linguistic sophistication. When Pollitzer points out that the name Keta is a common name in Yoruba, Hausa, and Bambara, and written by a Southern owner as Cato, I would speculate this is very likely a reference to Keita, the name well-known to Mande Africans of the highly-influential ruling clan of ancient Mali. As if referring to a veritable incubator and laboratory for jazz, in 1886 George Washington Cable fancifully described the Place Congo in New Orleans as the scene of exuberant music, dance, and singing by a variety of a dozen identifiable ethnic groups, including tall, well-built Senegalese and Gambia River Mandingo, who were slightly less well-built but cunning and lighter-skinned"
Was light skin being selected for? Was it something that has since declined in continental populations over time? How come Ibo and Mande tribes were pretty well known for light skin if it was only the result of slavery and not tribal diversity? Mande are particularly interesting because even the racists will have to explain how they settled in Mauritania for thousands of years before moving south to create Ghana and Mali. But then that might bother people who like to believe in a static Africa. Oh well.
Cass/ Member # 22355
posted
Its relative. Lighter skinned, does not equate to light skin. These peoples were still dark brown. It would basically be someone distinguishing a lighter chocolate colour (which is still dark brown), to a darker almost pitch-black.
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
Only someone culturally isolated like yourself would fail at seeing the likely comparison. Ibo were called "red ibo" because they became notorious in the west for their red to yellow skin complexions. If Mande were being compared to Ibo, that means they weren't just a shade of brown that wasn't blue black. Darker brown shades that aren't blue black are not uncommon from other groups either. That wouldn't have made them stand out enough for slave catchers to note their complexion as something that'd help them stand out from other blacks as runaways.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Cass/: Its relative. Lighter skinned, does not equate to light skin. These peoples were still dark brown. It would basically be someone distinguishing a lighter chocolate colour (which is still dark brown), to a darker almost pitch-black.
Irrelevant crap!
Snakepit1 Member # 21736
posted
Actually it isn't. I've met a couple of Ibo's in my life, and none have been red/yellow-bones. I don't know where these people hail from in Nigeria, but if they reside by the coast, it's more likely that a small portion of them have mixed with Europeans who mainly resided at the coastal areas.
Just because one person is lighter-skinned than the other, doesn't mean that the lighter-skinned person doesn't belong in the "dark-skin" category.
There are PLENTY of undertones to ones skin complexion. Some have a reddish undertone, some have a wheat-ish undertone, some have a deep brown undertone, whilst simultaneously being dark-skinned. Come on people!
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
Did you meet Ngwa Ibo? Those tend to be the lightest, but even that summary is from data from the 60s and texts/language among enslaved blacks and slavers. It's possible that lighter skin in these ethnic groups has decreased since the trans Atlantic slave trade, or even several decades ago.
Cass/ Member # 22355
posted
Its relative, like I said. The Igbo call lighter shades in their population "white", but they're nowhere near as light as say an average north European (pale white), south European (dark white/olive) or Arab (light brown).
"This older, more relative sense has been noted in other culture areas. The Japanese once used the terms shiroi (white) and kuroi (black) to describe their skin and its gradations of color. The Ibos of Nigeria employed ocha (white) and ojii (black) in the same way, so that nwoko ocha (white man) simply meant an Ibo with a lighter complexion." (Frost, 1990)
Exactly what would these rare "white" (ocha) Igbo be on the Luschan scale? No lighter than # 25 and probably #26-28. If they weren't even darker and chocolate (as opposed to near pitch-black) then they were a mahogany-brown which is still dark.
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
Cass/ Member # 22355
posted
So how do we know what "light brown" was in terms of the Luschan scale tiles? It wasn't measured, i.e. "light brown" could be # 25-28, but those are relatively dark, "medium brown". And note Zaharan who created that graphic is posting photos of two fairly dark brown West Africans (Luschan # 27 is the closest match to their skin) but calling them "light", precisely my point:
quote:Exactly what would these rare "white" (ocha) Igbo be on the Luschan scale? No lighter than # 25 and probably #26-28.
Are you really telling me you think there are/were native Igbo # 24 or less? That makes no sense in regards to natural selection. Look at where Igbo plot on a map: well within the tropics where UV/sunlight is most intense and near the equator where it is its absolute maximum. Why would there be light brown or "yellowish" Igbo, they would burn quickly in the sun? Regardless, look at the low frequency of alleged light brown skin in these Igbo tribes. The highest is only 19%. How 19% for a single tribe makes light brown skin "routine" in West Africa according to Zarahan...lol
Zaharan also spams a Relethford study showing most skin colour variation is in Sub-Saharan Africa. This isn't controversial; no one though argues this equates to there being light brown SSA's which contradicts their climate.
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
Ok well you keep ignoring that the light skin was described as having yellowish and reddish hues to light brown? In a sense yes Zaharan's picture is accurate. In 1979 Ngwa Igbo were at 1.5 million. Divide that by 4 and that would've been about 300,000 people in the 1960s. Is it possible that over the course of 50 years light skin within the Igbo population dramatically decreased to the point where even among them we wouldn't see the same numbers? Yes. But linguistically Diaspora Africans use red and yellow bone bone to described yellowish and light red complexions and it came from mainly describing igbo. As mulattoes that had nothing to do with Igbo had similar colors, and tribal identities became less relevant, blacks just say "yellow bone and red bone."
quote: "This older, more relative sense has been noted in other culture areas. The Japanese once used the terms shiroi (white) and kuroi (black) to describe their skin and its gradations of color. The Ibos of Nigeria employed ocha (white) and ojii (black) in the same way, so that nwoko ocha (white man) simply meant an Ibo with a lighter complexion." (Frost, 1990)
"Badsen [GT Badsen, "Niger Ibos," Frank Cass and Co, London, 1938: 123-124], in his early-twentieth century study of the physical appearance of the Igbo, had this to say: 'On the whole, the Ibos are of good physique and compare favorably with other African tribes.. Many Ibos are truly as black as the proverbial coal: others are almost as light-skinned as the natives of Southern Europe, while a few are distinctly reddish. The folk who stand out obtrusively are the albinos.'" --Gloria Chuku (2013) The Igbo Intellectual Tradition. pp 48-49
QUOTE:
"He disengaged himself from other life experiences and went back to a particular spot in his memory to capture the racial distinctions he was able to make. He saw no distinction in skin color between the red men in Igboland and the white men he met on the slave ship. " --Jacob Korieh. 2009. Olaudah Equiano and the Igbo world: history, society and Atlantic. 2009
" Oye-Eboe" may be a version of the Igbo word oyibo used in the nineteenth century to mean "white man," Equiano clearly uses it to refer to other Africans, perhaps the Aro slave traders. At this point in is life, he tells us, he had not yet seen or even heard of a European." -- Vincent Carretta. 2005. Equiano, the African: biography of a self-made man. p15
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
MONA LISA CHINDA
- "I am not half cast, I am a full Nigerian. My Mum is Igbo and my Dad is from Ikwere. It pains me when people call me half cast. I was born and brought up in Nigeria; Said Monalisa."
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
I have seen many Nigerians with a color complexion like that.^
Cass/ Member # 22355
posted
lol. Its called skin bleaching (very popular in "Nollywood" among Nigerian actors and that woman is a famous actor).
Same women, but darker-
extreme bleach-
moderate bleach-
Google images show her with a load more different skin tones. None of them are natural, same most often for her hair texture.
Cass/ Member # 22355
posted
Here's the Luscan Scale with 4 skin tones/colours of same woman: 1 from the photo Oshun posted, and the 3 photos I posted.
Why are they all significantly different?
Her natural skin colour [the darkest of the photos] plots #27-28.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Cass/: lol. Its called skin bleaching (very popular in "Nollywood" among Nigerian actors and that woman is a famous actor).
Google images show her with a load more different skin tones. None of them are natural, same most often for her hair texture.
People bleach to even out the color IN DIFFERENT PIGMENTATION ON THE SKIN. There are really light complexioned people in Nigeria, without bleach.
Yeah, even if in all your ignorance and persistence you don't allow it to be the case.smh
You are so dumb that you think your googled images can debunk reality. While you do not even have contact with the people you are talking about. There are certainly people who do bleach, but it is a fact that there are people like that with natural extreme light skin color, and these run in the millions.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Cass/: lol. Its called skin bleaching (very popular in "Nollywood" among NigerSame women, but darker …
The thing your loony brain cells can't comprehend is something called aperture, in photography. It's the amount of light going through a lens.
She is darker in this picture because the environment is darker. Her real skin tone is only visible in natural day light, while what you show is late at night. You are so stupid your ignorant pasty ass, is now going to tell with color complexion people really have.
At this point all I can conclude about you, is that your are the same racist piece of **** you were years ago.
As if these politicians are going to bleach their skin. smh
Real tawk Member # 20324
posted
These self-hating Negros are idiots. I rarely waste time on them. They will try any kind of trojan horse tactic to lay claim on phenotypes outside Subsahara. These Nigerians are called redbone because they picked up that silly lingo from African Americans. Cass is correct. Lighter skin is relative and not equated to light skin; you cannot compare a light skin African to a light skin Asian or Caucasian! You people are mad!
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Real tawk: These self-hating Negros are idiots. I rarely waste time on them. They will try any kind of trojan horse tactic to lay claim on phenotypes outside Subsahara. These Nigerians are called redbone because they picked up that silly lingo from African Americans. Cass is correct. Lighter skin is relative and not equated to light skin; you cannot compare a light skin African to a light skin Asian or Caucasian! You people are mad!
LOL This coming from an absolute hog, who has never set foot out of his now racist comfort zone. Isn't that right real hog? Who is talking about caca's or Asians? smh
It has little to do the American lingo, real hog. The lighter complexion was there already long before, real hog. All you know and are familiar with is American lingo. Tell real hog, what is the equivalent of redbone in Nigerian???
Real hog, tell how many Nigerians have you met? Because I see Nigerians with light complexion all the time.
quote:
[...]
Figure 2 | Ancestral variants around the SLC45A2 (rs16891982, above) and SLC24A5 (rs1426654, below) pigmentation genes in the Mesolithic genome.
The SNPs around the two diagnostic variants (red arrows) in these two genes were analysed. The resulting haplotype comprises neighbouring SNPs that are also absent in modern Europeans (CEU) (n = 112) but present in Yorubans (YRI) (n = 113). This pattern confirms that the La Brańa 1 sample is older than the positive-selection event in these regions. Blue, ancestral; red, derived.
--Carles Lalueza-Fox
Nature 507, 225–228 (13 March 2014) doi:10.1038/nature12960
You are obviously mad, and very ignorant!
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Real tawk: These self-hating ….!
See, the funniest part is, when you are being confronted you run off. This is that is very pristine cowardly behavior in you.
Tell, what ethnic groups are there in Nigeria with proximity to light complexion? lol
All you post is ignorant euroloon rubbish, for the lack of knowledge on the continent.
Cass/ Member # 22355
posted
Ish Gebor is a loon.
His own data he spams - shows Yoruba are 0% derived SLC45A2 (rs16891982), an allele that explains up to 40% of the variation in skin colour between Sub-Saharan Africans (SSA's) and Europeans. Yoruba don't carry this light skin allele at all. Yet these Afronuts are in this thread arguing there are "light skinned" West Sub-Saharan Africans - as light as Europeans. lol.
West Sub-Saharan Africans also have a zero to absolute negligible frequency of the other light skin alleles. See Ish Gebor's data for derived SLC24A5 (rs1426654), 0.1% frequency in Yoruba, meaning 99.9% don't carry this light skin allele.
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
We're talking about Igbo and Mande. Modern Yoruba are not every present, medieval and ancient SSA.
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
quote:Originally posted by Cass/: lol. Its called skin bleaching (very popular in "Nollywood" among Nigerian actors and that woman is a famous actor).
Same women, but darker-
extreme bleach-
moderate bleach-
Google images show her with a load more different skin tones. None of them are natural, same most often for her hair texture.
Or it could be filtering, makeup, time of day, camera, seasonal color changes, etc. Many lighter skinned blacks change colors depending on things like season/weather patterns. But on the whole she is light and dramatic skin bleaching to change complexion tends to garner a lot of attention.
You discuss studies and written evidence showing yellow and red tones in Africa didn't depend on Europeans and the Eurocentric refuses to believe. Show a Eurocentric lighter skinned Africans and it must be bleach.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Cass/: Ish Gebor is a loon.
His own data he spams - shows Yoruba are 0% derived SLC45A2 (rs16891982), an allele that explains up to 40% of the variation in skin colour between Sub-Saharan Africans (SSA's) and Europeans. Yoruba don't carry this light skin allele at all. Yet these Afronuts are in this thread arguing there are "light skinned" West Sub-Saharan Africans - as light as Europeans. lol.
West Sub-Saharan Africans also have a zero to absolute negligible frequency of the other light skin alleles. See Ish Gebor's data for derived SLC24A5 (rs1426654), 0.1% frequency in Yoruba, meaning 99.9% don't carry this light skin allele.
You are hilarious.
Africans carry the fix and unfixed alleles.
quote:"Frequencies display strong population differentiation, with the derived light skin pigmentation allele (A111T) fixed or nearly so in all European populations and the ancestral allele predominant in sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia (Lamason et al. 2005; Norton et al. 2007)."
[...]
The L374F polymorphism of the SLC45A2 gene, encoding the membrane-associated transporter protein that plays an important role in melanin synthesis, has been suggested to be associated with skin color in human populations. In this study, the detailed distribution of the 374f and 374l alleles has been investigated in 2,581 unrelated subjects from 36 North, East, West, and Central African populations. We found once more the highly significant (p 0.001) correlation coefficient (r = 0.957) cline of 374f frequencies with degrees of latitude in European and North African populations. Almost all the African populations located below 16° of latitude are fixed for the 374l allele. Peul, Toucouleur, and Soninké populations have 374l allele frequencies of 0.06, 0.03, and 0.03, respectively.
Near Fixation of 374l Allele Frequencies of the Skin Pigmentation Gene SLC45A2 in Africa
quote:The two genes SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 were recently identified as major determinants of pigmentation in humans and in other vertebrates. The allele p.A111T in the former gene and the allele p.L374F in the latter gene are both nearly fixed in light-skinned Europeans, and can therefore be considered ancestry informative marker (AIMs). AIMs are becoming useful for forensic identification of the phenotype from a DNA profile sampled, for example, from a crime scene. Here, we generate new allelic data for these two genes from samples of Chinese, Uygurs, Ghanaians, South African Xhosa, South African Europeans, and Sri Lankans (Tamils and Sinhalese). Our data confirm the earlier results and furthermore demonstrate that the SLC45A2 allele is a more specific AIM than the SLC24A5 allele because the former clearly distinguishes the Sri Lankans from the Europeans. Authors
--Soejima M, Koda Y, Population differences of two coding SNPs in pigmentation-related genes SLC24A5 and SLC45A2.
Source Int. J. Legal Med. 2007 Jan; 121(1):36-9. Institution Department of Forensic Medicine and Human Genetics, Kurume University School of Medicine, Kurume, 830-0011, Japan.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:
Although the lineage containing this haplotype must have originated in Africa, C3 is rare in Africa (1.0% in MKK) but widely distributed in East Asia, the New World, and Oceania.
[...]
Frequencies display strong population differentiation, with the derived light skin pigmentation allele (A111T) fixed or nearly so in all European populations and the ancestral allele predominant in sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia (Lamason et al. 2005; Norton et al. 2007).
[...]
Phased haplotypes were retrieved from HapMap, Release 21. For phylogenetic analysis, graphs were drawn by the use of a simple nearest-neighbor approach and rooted by the use of ancestral alleles determined by comparison with other primate sequences.
[...]
"Of the remaining 10 common core haplotype groups, all ancestral at rs1426654, eight clearly have their origins in Africa (Figure 3B, Figure 4, and Table S4). Three early diverging haplotypes, C1, C2, and C4, are rare outside of Africa and clearly originated there."
"In the lineage containing the majority of haplotypes, each of the three branches, containing C5, C6-C7, and C8-C11, give strong evidence of having originated in Africa. C5 reaches its greatest abundance in West Africa and is rare outside of Africa. Within the other two branches, C6 and C9, which are the most common haplotypes in Africa, are also common worldwide, whereas C7 is abundant in East Asia and much less common but widespread in Africa. "
[...]
Our dating for this haplotype is consistent with a non-African origin. The most likely location for the origin of C11 is, therefore, within the region in which it is fixed or nearly so. As both models for the origin of C11 imply that C3 and C10 were present in ancestors of Europeans, the observed and inferred distributions of these autosomal haplotypes are consistent with the single-out-of- Africa hypothesis derived using uniparental markers (Oppenheimer 2003; Macaulay et al. 2005).
--Victor A. Canfield et al. Molecular Phylogeography of a Human Autosomal Skin Color Locus Under Natural Selection 2013
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: there are people like that with natural extreme light skin color, and these run in the millions.
you made that up
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Cass/: Ish Gebor is a loon.
His own data he spams - shows Yoruba are 0% derived SLC45A2 (rs16891982), an allele that explains up to 40% of the variation in skin colour between Sub-Saharan Africans (SSA's) and Europeans. Yoruba don't carry this light skin allele at all. Yet these Afronuts are in this thread arguing there are "light skinned" West Sub-Saharan Africans - as light as Europeans. lol.
West Sub-Saharan Africans also have a zero to absolute negligible frequency of the other light skin alleles. See Ish Gebor's data for derived SLC24A5 (rs1426654), 0.1% frequency in Yoruba, meaning 99.9% don't carry this light skin allele.
It says that Africans carry the ancestral alleles, Dorky.
quote:The genotypic combination leading to a predicted phenotype of dark skin and non-brown eyes is unique and no longer present in contemporary European populations.
Figure 2 | Ancestral variants around the SLC45A2 (rs16891982, above) and SLC24A5 (rs1426654, below) pigmentation genes in the Mesolithic genome. The SNPs around the two diagnostic variants (red arrows) in these two genes were analysed. The resulting haplotype comprises neighbouring SNPs that are also absent in modern Europeans (CEU) (n5112) but present in Yorubans (YRI) (n5113). This pattern confirms that the La Bran ̃a 1 sample is older than the positive-selection event in these regions. Blue, ancestral; red, derived.
— Lalueza-Fox
In layman terms:
quote:Lalueza-Fox states: "However, the biggest surprise was to discover that this individual possessed African versions in the genes that determine the light pigmentation of the current Europeans, which indicates that he had dark skin, although we can not know the exact shade."
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: there are people like that with natural extreme light skin color, and these run in the millions.
you made that up
Nope, I did not. But what the heck do you know? Some nameless and faceless loon on the internet! All and everything about you is FAKE!
Thereal Member # 22452
posted
In the abstract of the paper you are they saying if wasn't slc24a5 gene their would no difference between whites and sri Lankan?
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: We're talking about Igbo and Mande. Modern Yoruba are not every present, medieval and ancient SSA.
The comical part here is that Igbo make up a demographic of 34 million. Igbo ten to be lighter completed, with some having almost fair complexion.
Yet, folks like lioness can't warp it when say they run in the millions.
I guess Igbo babies are bleached as well. smh
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Cass/: lol. Its called skin bleaching (very popular in "Nollywood" among Nigerian actors and that woman is a famous actor).
Same women, but darker-
extreme bleach-
moderate bleach-
Google images show her with a load more different skin tones. None of them are natural, same most often for her hair texture.
I just wanted to say one more thing: When white or Arab women have two photos that look like the first and second (same person) their diversity is not discarded as "skin bleaching." If a white woman has the tone in the first image, and took an IG photo from her car with different lighting, makeup or during a different time of year to look like the second pic he wouldn't say sh!t. Anybody also notice the woman next to her in the first picture also has a lighter tone that can also be seen in places like southern Europe Lol. I also forgot to mention her daughter looks pretty light in the photo which makes me think it's lighting. But about that...
If I'm correct this is the father of Monalisa Chinda's daughter (Dejo Richards). Look how dark his skin is compared to his daughter.
The comparison is typical of men of his color that have children with naturally light skinned black or non black women.
Just bleach he says doe. Monalisa Chinda would probably be a lighter example of a Ngwa Igbo (red/yellow). She comes Ikwere if memory serves. They trace their origins to Owerri, Ohaji, Etche, and Ngwa areas of Igboland.
posted 
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
