R-V88 is not frequent in Africa except in countries of the the Chad Basin region and in the Egyptian Siwa berbers. Does anybody have any data on African Americans carrying this clade?
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
So what are the alleles to this mutation of Hg R to V88?
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
I don't know look it up
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
R-V88 is not frequent in Africa except in countries of the the Chad Basin region and in the Egyptian Siwa berbers. Does anybody have any data on African Americans carrying this clade?
This chart is not any good. It does not even show the M269 carries in Sub-Saharan Africa.
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
If V88 or 269 is common in Africa then its should also be common in African American DNA data
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
Why? African Americans are a subset of Africa's diversity right? So wouldn't it be possible that the groups that were selected to be enslaved didn't have it??
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Why? African Americans are a subset of Africa's diversity right? So wouldn't it be possible that the groups that were selectively enslaved didn't have it??
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: If V88 or 269 is common in Africa then its should also be common in African American DNA data
^ I wrote this for Clyde. In fact significant frequencies of V88 are quite rare in Africa except for very limited regions and M269 is even more rare in Africa.
Northern Cameroon has many groups with high frequencies of V88.
quote:
many African Americans today have discovered through DNA analysis that they are mainly or at least partly descended from Cameroonian slaves.[3][4] The American DNA Company discovered that many of the 6,000 African Americans whose DNA they analyzed had at least one ancestor from current-day Cameroon.
In addition, according to the 2007-2011 American Community Survey there are 33,181 Cameroonian-born people living in the United States.
So some AAs should be V88. I would like to see if there is any data showing this or individual AAs who have been tested and carry this haplogroup
on the Caribbean island of Saint Martin three skeletons of 17th century African slaves were found and
Supplementary Information Genome-wide ancestry of 17th-century enslaved Africans from the Caribbean H. Schroeder1,2, 2015
No sequencing data were available for the V35 mutation, but this SNP most likely arose subsequent to the split, as Cruciani et al. (75) observed it just twice in a survey of 5326 Y chromosomes that included more than 1800 individuals from 69 African populations, and both carriers were Italian. This leaves two other known subgroups of R1b1c-V88, those defined by V69 and those that carry the two-base insertion, M18. Unfortunately, no sequencing data were available at either site. Because M18 was only observed in a single Corsican and V69 was present in about one third of the Central African R-V88 lineages, we suggest that STM1 most likely claims affinity to either R-V69 or to another, as yet uncharacterized, branch of the R-V88 subtree.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: I don't know look it up
Okay, I will wait.
Let me know when you have that info ready.
Understanding these alleles will solve issues.
Btw, interesting osteological study.
quote:The lateral upper incisors had also been filed on the distal side, creating a pointed shape. The lower incisors were all missing but it is possible that they had also been modified. In case of STM2, the upper incisors had been chipped on both the mesial and distal sides, resulting in a pointed shape (Fig. S3).
[...]
Similar types of dental modification are known from Africa but it is difficult to be more specific because the designs, especially some of the more common ones, were used by several groups (35- 39). The W-shaped pattern used in case of STM2 (Fig. S3) appears to have been fairly common, as it has been reported from several parts of Africa (5-8).
The genetic sequencing in the study was astonishing as well.
quote: Upon identifying the point of divergence of STM1’s Y-chromosome lineage from the known phylogeny (see section 12), we gained an expectation for both the genotypes STM1 carried across the vast majority of known variant sites and for the number of derived alleles he likely carried at unknown sites of variation. We leveraged this information to empirically estimate the genotype error rate, where we define an error as any call that does match the true genotype of STM1. These include both sequencing errors and DNA damage—mutations that have arisen due to post- mortem deamination events.
[...]
The high-quality human reference sequence was constructed primarily of BAC clones derived from a single individual, RP11. This individual carried the R1b1a-M269 haplogroup, so we expect the STM1 genotype to match the reference/derived allele for all SNPs from the root down to the branch upon which R1b-M343 arose (Fig. S17). Furthermore, the genotype should match the non-reference/derived allele for SNPs on the R1b-V88 branch. Because the bifurcation downstream of the V88 branch is the last point of phylogenetic certainty, we do not know which allele STM1 should have carried from this point to the tip of the tree. However, by comparing to higher coverage R1b1a-M269 lineages of (37), we can estimate that STM1 carried approximately 69 additional non-reference alleles amongst all 9,988,118 callable (i.e., post site-level quality control) sites defined by (38).
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote: AIM:
To determine the human Y-chromosome haplogroup backgrounds of intermediate-sized variant alleles displayed by short tandem repeat (STR) loci DYS392, DYS449, and DYS385, and to evaluate the potential of each intermediate variant to elucidate new phylogenetic substructure within the human Y-chromosome haplogroup tree.
METHODS:
Molecular characterization of lineages was achieved using a combination of Y-chromosome haplogroup defining binary polymorphisms and up to 37 short tandem repeat loci. DNA sequencing and median-joining network analyses were used to evaluate Y-chromosome lineages displaying intermediate variant alleles.
RESULTS:
We show that DYS392.2 occurs on a single haplogroup background, specifically I1*-M253, and likely represents a new phylogenetic subdivision in this European haplogroup. Intermediate variants DYS449.2 and DYS385.2 both occur on multiple haplogroup backgrounds, and when evaluated within specific haplogroup contexts, delineate new phylogenetic substructure, with DYS449.2 being informative within haplogroup A-P97 and DYS385.2 in haplogroups D-M145, E1b1a-M2, and R1b*-M343. Sequence analysis of variant alleles observed within the various haplogroup backgrounds showed that the nature of the intermediate variant differed, confirming the mutations arose independently.
CONCLUSIONS:
Y-chromosome short tandem repeat intermediate variant alleles, while relatively rare, typically occur on multiple haplogroup backgrounds. This distribution indicates that such mutations arise at a rate generally intermediate to those of binary markers and STR loci. As a result, intermediate-sized Y-STR variants can reveal phylogenetic substructure within the Y-chromosome phylogeny not currently detected by either binary or Y-STR markers alone, but only when such variants are evaluated within a haplogroup context.
quote:Estimates of tMRCA (in years ago) of the two major haplogroups (E1b1a7a and E1b1a8) using ASD statistic with 10 STRs (excluding DYS385a/b) and a generation time of 25 years.
quote:Diversity values based on 11 Y-STR loci (DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, and the sum of DYS385a/b): where N is the sample size, HD is the Haplotype Diversity with its standard deviation (s.d.), and STR var is the variance of repeat units averaged across all 11 STR loci.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: So what are the alleles to this mutation of Hg R to V88?
.
.
.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted There are a number of Y-chromosome Haplogroups shared by mongoloid Native Americas and Afro-Americans.
I can not find any information on V88 among Afro-Americans. But I have found information on the frequency of haplogroup R among Afro-Americans.
.
. Haplogroup E-P1 is called E1b1a1 .In the Hammer et al (2006) study while 63% of Afro-Americans carry this haplogroup,1.3% Native Americans carry the same haplogroup. .
. The second most frequent Y-chromosome among Afro-Americans is R1b. In the Vallone and Butler (2004) study AAs carried around 0.3% R-M207, and 23% R1b. . . Miller et al (2006) did a detailed study of Afro-American and Native American Y-Chromosome. Miller et al (2006) revealed that NA and AAs share many R haplogroups including R-M17 and R-M207. It is interesting to note that in relation to R-M269, that 21% carried this haplogroup, while 17.0 of AAs carried the same haplogroup. This is interesting because there is very little statistical difference between 17% and 21%.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote: In order to filter out, through masking, the Eurasian portion identified in this way, we phased the samples by using ShapeIT24 and processed them with PCAdmix.25 In the masking process, Europeans (CEU [Utah residents with ancestry from northern and western Europe from the CEPH collection])15 were used as a proxy for the non-African component, and the Gumuz (the Ethiopian popu-lation showing minimal introgression) were used as a proxy for the African component. Pairwise FST26 was calculated before and after the masking process (Table S3), high=lighting the expected trend of increased distance of the admixed populations from non-Africans when we retained only their African component.
[…]
This finding was robust to a wide range of potential artifacts stemming from uncertainties in the masking process (Figures S3, S4, and S6A; Table S4; note particularly the false-positive rate displayed in column 8) and was replicated in a South Asian population (GIH; Figure S6B). Furthermore, we showed with simulations that the error rate present in the masking process (Table S4) was unlikely to affect our findings (Figures S4 and S6).
[…]
However, such confounding backflow would need to have taken place prior to the split between East Asians and Europeans (ca. ~40,000 years ago) and, if this genetic component originated from the main OOA founding event, is likely to have been removed by the non-African masking procedure, which was designed for this purpose. To provide an independent test of our finding, we analyzed three Egyptian and five Ethiopian high-coverage genomes with the multiple sequentially Markovian coalescent (MSMC) approach before and after masking and compared them with a set of publicly available high-coverage genomes.
—Luca Pagani, Toomas Kivisild et al.
Tracing the Route of Modern Humans out of Africa by Using 225 Human Genome Sequences from Ethiopians and Egyptians
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
. The second most frequent Y-chromosome among Afro-Americans is R1b. In the Vallone and Butler (2004) study AAs carried around 0.3% R-M207, and 23% R1b. . . Miller et al (2006) did a detailed study of Afro-American and Native American Y-Chromosome. Miller et al (2006) revealed that NA and AAs share many R haplogroups including R-M17 and R-M207. It is interesting to note that in relation to R-M269, that 21% carried this haplogroup, while 17.0 of AAs carried the same haplogroup. This is interesting because there is very little statistical difference between 17% and 21%. [/QB]
^^ Above is Clyde Winters chart using data from Hammer where he chopped out data on other groups in the article
Below is the relevant portion of Hammer's chart
We see the predominant haplogroup of Native Americans Q at high frequencies in Native Americans. Second to Native Americans are Hispanics. That is probably due Mestizo Mexican input. They are by far the largest Hispanic group in the U.S. and due to being part Amerindian they carry haplogroup Q at an average frequency around 30%
The second most common haplogroup of native Americans is R-M269 at 21.9%. This is the predominant haplogroup of Europeans. Here the European Americans carrying 58.3%.
R-M269 is extremely rare in Africans and it is found in high frequencies only in tiny areas. R-V88 is also rare in Africa as a whole but is very high in some groups in the Chad Basin around Cameroon.
Yet here African Americans are showing 17.3% R-M269 so they must be getting it from either the European Americans or the Native Americans. Europeans are a much larger population than Native Americans. They have also had a lot more contact with Africans than Native Americans. Some African Americans mixed with Native Americans but most did not escape slavery and integrate into Indian tribes. Africans have been historically a part of the European American society whereas many Native Americans live in reservations. The data reflects this. African Americans and have not mixed that much with Native Americans as we can see on the chart carrying under 1% of the predominant Q lineage of Native Americans while Mestizo Mexicans carry quite a bit of it.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
"R-V88 is also rare in Africa as a whole but is very high in some groups in the Chad Basin around Cameroon."
Most likely R follows its own Paleolithic streamline in Africa, before leaving Africa.
Lioness what are the chromosomes for M173 and M343?
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Since you mentioned Cruciani as the prime source.
I am still waiting for you to explain why, the seven mutations which were found to be shared by chromosomes of haplogroups C and R [16], were also found to be present in one DE sample (sample 33 in Table S1), and are positioned at the root of macro-haplogroup CT (Figure 1 and Figure S1), before leaving Africa. Why is that? lol
Explain why are the four remainder mutations of R positioned at the root of haplogroups F (V186 and V205)? Why is that? lol
C, CT, CF, F and DE have an African origin, the chromosomes that make up R cluster with the aforementioned Hg's before leaving Africa! lol
quote:
We estimated the TMRCA of human Y chromosomes as 338 kya (95% CI = 237–581 kya). Using a joint likelihood20 and the same mutation rate, we also estimated a divergence time between A0 chromosomes and the human reference as 202 kya (95% CI = 125–382 kya), a time that is older than that previously obtained by Cruciani et al. (142 kya).6 This discrepancy in the age of A0 is due to the fact that the earlier study did not utilize mutation rates based on recently obtained whole-genome sequence data.14; 15; 16; 17 ; 18 If we were to use the higher mutation rate (1.0 × 10−9 per base per year6) rather than a realistic range derived from whole-genome sequencing (4.39 × 10−10 − 7.07 × 10−10), the estimated TMRCA for the tree incorporating A00 as the basal lineage would be 209 kya, which is only slightly older than current estimates of the TMRCA of mtDNA and the age of the oldest AMH fossil remains. We note, however, that the higher mutation rate produces an estimate for the common ancestor of all non-African Y chromosome haplogroups (C through T) of ∼39 kya6 (i.e., versus ∼63 kya for the mutation rate used here). It is difficult to reconcile the younger estimate with the timing of the out-of-Africa dispersal on the basis of the analyses of autosomal DNA21 and the fossil record outside of Africa.22; 23; 24 ; 25 Regardless of which mutation rate is applied, the analysis of relative ages of nodes26 shows that the TMRCA of the A00-rooted tree is 67% older (95% CI = 35%–126%) than that of the A0-rooted tree.
Genotyping of a DNA sample that was submitted to a commercial genetic-testing facility demonstrated that the Y chromosome of this African American individual carried the ancestral state of all known Y chromosome SNPs. To further characterize this lineage, which we dubbed A00 (see Figure S1, available online, for proposed nomenclature), we sequenced multiple regions (totaling ∼240 kb) of the X-degenerate portion of this chromosome, as well as a subset of these regions (∼180 kb) on a chromosome belonging to the previously known basal lineage A1b (which we rename here as A0).
—Michael F. Hammer Fernando L. Mendez et al.
An African American Paternal Lineage Adds an Extremely Ancient Root to the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree
quote: The deepest branching separates A1b from a monophyletic clade whose members (A1a, A2, A3, B, C, and R) all share seven mutually reinforcing derived mutations (five transitions and two transversions, all at non-CpG sites). To retain the information from the reference MSY tree13 as much as possible, we named this clade A1a-T (Figure 1). Within A1a-T, the transversion V221 separates A1a from a monophyletic clade (called A2-T) consisting of three branches: A2, A3, and BT, the latter being supported by ten mutations (Figure 1)
.
—Fulvio Cruciani et al
A Revised Root for the Human Y Chromosomal Phylogenetic Tree: The Origin of Patrilineal Diversity in Africa
. The second most frequent Y-chromosome among Afro-Americans is R1b. In the Vallone and Butler (2004) study AAs carried around 0.3% R-M207, and 23% R1b. . . Miller et al (2006) did a detailed study of Afro-American and Native American Y-Chromosome. Miller et al (2006) revealed that NA and AAs share many R haplogroups including R-M17 and R-M207. It is interesting to note that in relation to R-M269, that 21% carried this haplogroup, while 17.0 of AAs carried the same haplogroup. This is interesting because there is very little statistical difference between 17% and 21%.
^^ Above is Clyde Winters chart using data from Hammer where he chopped out data on other groups in the article
Below is the relevant portion of Hammer's chart
We see the predominant haplogroup of Native Americans Q at high frequencies in Native Americans. Second to Native Americans are Hispanics. That is probably due Mestizo Mexican input. They are by far the largest Hispanic group in the U.S. and due to being part Amerindian they carry haplogroup Q at an average frequency around 30%
The second most common haplogroup of native Americans is R-M269 at 21.9%. This is the predominant haplogroup of Europeans. Here the European Americans carrying 58.3%.
R-M269 is extremely rare in Africans and it is found in high frequencies only in tiny areas. R-V88 is also rare in Africa as a whole but is very high in some groups in the Chad Basin around Cameroon.
Yet here African Americans are showing 17.3% R-M269 so they must be getting it from either the European Americans or the Native Americans. Europeans are a much larger population than Native Americans. They have also had a lot more contact with Africans than Native Americans. Some African Americans mixed with Native Americans but most did not escape slavery and integrate into Indian tribes. Africans have been historically a part of the European American society whereas many Native Americans live in reservations. The data reflects this. African Americans and have not mixed that much with Native Americans as we can see on the chart carrying under 1% of the predominant Q lineage of Native Americans while Mestizo Mexicans carry quite a bit of it. [/QB]
Part 1
Stupid Euronut there was very little admixture between mongoloid Native Americans and Europeans. Moreover, given the fact that R1 is found in Africa including R-M269, makes it clear that many Africans who came here as slaves were already carriers of R1-M269, just like the Black Native Americans. Haplogroup R was not spread among Native Americans through European contact. That is why, outside of the United States: Northeast and Southeast, most mongoloid Native Americans carry y-chromosome Q. The characteristic mongoloid y-chromosome is haplogroup Q. This is why the Apacheans and Subarctic Athapaskans share recent common ancestry.
The Apacheans belonged to the Athapaskan culture in the Southwest. This is why the Navajo and Apache among the largest tribes in Native North America. The archeological evidence makes it clear that mongoloid Native Americans appear in an archaeological context only 6kya BP (6000 years ago before the present). It appears that Black Native Americans dominated the states of Washington, Oregon and California. There were Black Native American tribes in Wyoming and the Dakotas. As a result, the mongoloid Native Americans mainly migrated into the United States: Southwest, and through Mexico infiltrated Meso and South America.
Father Louis Hennepin wrote about the Black Native Americans in Dakotas. As usual we see villages where the Native American tribes were either Mongoloid or Black. The Naudowessies were Dakota Black Native Americans or Indians . They are part of the Siouan family, known as Sioux. Hewitt says the name was Chippewa, namely Nadowe-is-iw, a diminutive of nadowe, ‘an adder, or ‘enemy’, to the mongoloid Indians. Some of the Chippewa were Black tribes. There were over 100 tribes in California when the Spanish arrived. Above is a painting by Jean Franquelin of San Francisco BNA. The California Black Native Americans practice many life styles. Some were hunter gatherers, while others fished and farmed. The majority of California Black Native Americans belonged to the Ohlone tribes. These people were also called Costanoan.
Much of what is now Georgia was a stronghold of the Black Native Americans. These Blacks lived predominately from the Smoky Mountains in North Carolina southward as far as St. Augustine, Florida.
The vast majority of Native Black Americans lived in California, or along the Eastern seaboard in North America. They belonged to many Confederations including the Muskhoean and Algonquin. Some of their tribal names include Choctaw, Tuscarora, Secolan, Tamacraw, Nanticoke, Kashita (Kauche-te), and Yamasee to name a few. The BNA tribes mainly belonged to the Muskhogean and Algonquin Confederacies. Due to the intimate relationship between the BNA tribes and mongoloid tribes, the BNA, given the high frequency of haplogroup R1 in Africa, probably introduced this haplogroup to Native Americans—not Europeans. This view is supported by the high frequency of R-M173 among Africans and Native Americans in North America. Because of the predominate habitation of Black or African Native American tribes in the Midwest, Northeast, and Southeast we find mongoloid Native Americans carrying haplogroup R1, due to their admixture with the Black Americans.
The second major y-chromosome among Native Americans is R-M173. Mongoloid Native Americans with Sub-Saharan African slaves.
Even though R-M173 is widespread in Europe, the pattern of European American (EA) and mongoloid Native Americans (NA) interactions, mainly violent confrontations, as Europeans expanded westward fails to support the hypothesis that EA spread haplogroup R to NA (O’Brien, 2011).
The Black Native Americans (BNA) lived on valuable farmlands during the Colonial period. The English and Americans wanted this land. This led to violent conflicts between BNAs and white Americans. In New England, the BNAs were eliminated by slaving, warfare and forced removal. The French enslaved Native Americans around the Great Lakes, Minnesota, Missouri Country and Lousiana (Gallay, 2002). The Europeans also needed labor to work the fields. The Americans provided the Native Americans with guns and cheap goods to purchase Native American/Indian slaves. Between 1670 and 1720 many BNAs were enslaved (Bassey and Galley, 2009; Ekberg, 2007; Galley, 2002; Lauber, 1970; Newell, 2009). The BNAs were sold into slavery throughout the Thirteen Colonies, Canada and the Bristish West Indies (Gallay, 2002). The majority of BNAs sold into slavery, by white and Indian slave traders were the Choctaw (Gallay, 2002), and Yamasee and other Carolina tribes (Lauber, 1970; Newell, 2009).
A good example of the enslavement and forced removal of BNAs is the case of the Yamasee. The Yamasee,was a tribe of Black Native Americans who originally lived in Florida and southern Georgia until they forced to migrate North into South Carolina by the Spanish in the 16th Century. The Yamasee were part of the Muskhogean Confederacy. This was a Confederacy of mongoloid and Black Native Americans.
The whites began to steal the Yamasee lands. By 1715, the Yamasee leading a Confederation of other tribes attacked the whites to drive them off their lands.The Cherokee who were part of the Muskogean Confederation broke away and formed an alliance with the British in 1718 and helped defeat the Yamasee.
The Yamasee who were not killed off were sold into slavery.Most of the Yamasee fled back into their ancestral homeland in Florida, which by this time was settled by the Creek.
Yamasee were virtually wiped out due to protracted combat with the Creeks, who felt they were trying to take back the land they formerly owned in Florida. Some Yamasee joined the Seminole tribe. In return, the Cherokee took control of Yamasee land. If not for the break-away of the Cherokee the whites would have been defeated.
By the 18th Century Black Native Americans were divided into slave Native Americans and Free Indians. BNAs like the Choctaw had their own towns or lived on reservations. Other BNAs joined the ranks of the mongoloid Indian tribes (Winters, 2011a).
Due to Indian slavery in North America, the Black Native American population was absorbed by the larger SSA slave population. Over time, people forgot there had been Black Native Americans and Mongoloid Native Americans. In fact, the BNA heritage and land rights were stolen by the government, as all Blacks in America, no matter their ancestry were assigned the status of former African slave. Gilio Whitaker (2015) wrote that : “As the Indian slave trade gave way to the African slave trade by the late 1700’s (by then over 300 years old) Native American women began to intermarry with imported Africans, producing mixed-race offspring whose native identities became obscured through time. In the colonial project to eliminate the landscape of Indians, these mixed-race people simply became known as "colored" people through bureaucratic erasure in public records.
In some cases such as in Virginia, even when people were designated as Indians on birth or death certificates or other public records, their records were changed to reflect “colored.” Census takers, determining a person’s race by their looks, often recorded mixed-race people as simply black, not Indian. The result is that today there is a population of people of Native American heritage and identity (particularly in the Northeast) who are not recognized by society at large, sharing similar circumstances with the Freedmen of the Cherokee and other Five Civilized Tribes.
Whereas EA and NA relations were antagonistic, African slaves had a very intimate relationship with NA (Katz, 2011). An undetermined number of African slaves fled into Indian territory during slavery (Katz, 1997). Among NA populations SSA slaves began new lives and married NA females , among many NA groups especially the Seminoles. As a result, ex-slave SSA males played an important role in the Creek and Seminole nations-often serving as interpreters, chiefs and counselors (Katz, 2011) .
Sub-Saharan African and Native Americans came in contact during the European conquest of the Americas. When Europeans came to Ametrica they often found Native American and mongoloid Indians living in different communities or side by side. As Black Native American tribes were conquered by Europeans and sold into slavery, many Black Native American tribes merged with the mongoloid Native Americans. Due to the demand for more slave labor, the Americans began to import Sub-Saharan African (SSA) slaves from Africa into the United States. Thousands of SSA males ran away from the plantations to Indian Territory where they founded many maroon societies or lived on tribal lands (Katz, 2011) .
There were Black Native American tribes in Canada. During the Atlantic Slave trade many SSA slaves were deposited in Canada.These runaway slaves held extensive land holdings in Florida and in Nova Scotia, near Halifax during the American slave period (Chambers, 1891).
In North America, there were so many SSAs among the Iroquois and other Northeastern American tribes that in 1726, 1764 and 1765, the governor of Colonial New York exacted a promise from the Delaware, Huron and Iroquois’ Confederation, to return runaway slaves (Katz, 2011). This should not be a surprise because many of the members of the Iroquois’ Confederation were Black Native Americans.
Although NA nations gave this promise to the governor no slaves were ever returned. There are reports of numerous marriages between NA females and SSA males. Intermarriage between NA and SSA populations between British Columbia and New England was especially high. Massachusetts was a major center of NA and SSA intermixture. Many SSA slave males married NA females because the offspring became free (Chambers, 1891). As early as 1763, in places like Martha’s Vineyard, Tilburg, Chilmack and Chappaquiddick, Massachusetts almost one-fourth of the NA were married to SSA males (Chambers, 1891). For example, in the 1790 U.S. Census it was reported that 6001 “persons other than white” 400 were SSA, and 2000 were mixed NA and SSA (Chambers,1891).
There were also intermarriage between NA and SSA populations in the southern United States (Katz, 2011). In 1526, African slaves fled their Spanish masters and settled in South Carolina Black Indian Territory.
The first SSA slaves were sold to the English colonist in 1620 (Chambers, 1891). In 1622, NA overran the Jamestown Virginia colony killing all the whites, and integrating the African slaves into NA communities (Katz, 2011). As a result, it was recognized that many free born Blacks on the Chesapeake Peninsula were of Black Native American (BNA), mongoloid NA and SSA origin in 1700 (Chambers, 1891; Katz, 2011).
The largest settlement of SSA in the South was in Florida. Here there was 50 miles of farmland , cattle and etc., owned by Maroons. The SSA in Florida freely mixed with the Creek and Seminoles. It was estimated by a certain Mr. Munroe in 1887 that more than half of the NA and SSA populations in Florida was mixed (Chambers, 1891). Other SSA were married to NA females belonging to the Cherokee, Choctaw, and Creek nations.
In addition to intermarriage among NA and SSA populations in the Northeastern and Southern USA, there was considerable intermarriage among NA and SSA in the Midwest. In Minnesota, for example, in 1819 at the mouth of the St. Louis River, there were SSA living in Ojibwa villages (Chambers, 1891).
The P clade probably originated in Africa because 1) whites rarely mated with Native Americans before the Great Trek to Oklahoma, 2) R-M173 and the subclades V88 and R-M269 has its highest frequencies across Africa ; and 3) R-V88 is older than R-M269.
Africans had took R1-M173 to Europe between 40,000 BC up the introduction of the Yamnaya culture 4kya.The presence of V88 in Europe indicates that the Yamnaya and Bell Beaker people who carried R1 were mainly SSAs. It indicates that the Bell Beaker people who entered Europe from Morocco via Iberia were carriers of V88.
Other Africans took R1 into Europe during the African Islamic conquests of Iberia, France and Germany. The African Muskims were in Iberia for almost 800 years. They left Iberia in 1492.
Researchers have found that the TMRCA of V88 was 9200-5600 kya (Cruciani et al., 2010). Eurasians carry the M269 (R1b1b2) mutation. The subclades of R1b1b2 include Rh1b1b2g (U106) (TMRCA 8.3kya) and R1b1b2h (U152) (TMRCA 7.4kya). The most recent common ancestor for R1b1b2 in Europe is probably 8kya (Balaresque et al., 2010). Y-Chromosome R1b1b2 has high frequencies in England, France, Italy and Germany (Balaresque et al., 2010). Clearly, R-V88 is older than R-M269. Some of the Malian settlers probably introduced R-M173 into North America.
Ancient Mali was a Confederation it was made up of many different tribes. Settling even half the 25-80,000 Malians who sail to America in 1310 on the mainland would have had a tremendous effect on the genetic and population land scape of the Americas. It appears that Black and mongoloid Native Americans often lived side by side. They also belonged to the same Confederations.
Due to the Native American slave trade many Black Native Americans owners in the West Indies other Native American were forced to work on plantations or sold into slave. Using a system of divide and rule the whites were able to get the Indians capture each other and sale their captives as slave. Since the ancestors of the Black Native Americans had originated in Africa they began to be identified as slave-Indian, freeman and finally “Colored”. And then as a result of bureaucratic erasure in the public records, the former black Native Americans simply became identified as “Colored”, like the former Sub-Saharan slaves, instead of Native Americans.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
. The second most frequent Y-chromosome among Afro-Americans is R1b. In the Vallone and Butler (2004) study AAs carried around 0.3% R-M207, and 23% R1b. . . Miller et al (2006) did a detailed study of Afro-American and Native American Y-Chromosome. Miller et al (2006) revealed that NA and AAs share many R haplogroups including R-M17 and R-M207. It is interesting to note that in relation to R-M269, that 21% carried this haplogroup, while 17.0 of AAs carried the same haplogroup. This is interesting because there is very little statistical difference between 17% and 21%.
^^ Above is Clyde Winters chart using data from Hammer where he chopped out data on other groups in the article
Below is the relevant portion of Hammer's chart
We see the predominant haplogroup of Native Americans Q at high frequencies in Native Americans. Second to Native Americans are Hispanics. That is probably due Mestizo Mexican input. They are by far the largest Hispanic group in the U.S. and due to being part Amerindian they carry haplogroup Q at an average frequency around 30%
The second most common haplogroup of native Americans is R-M269 at 21.9%. This is the predominant haplogroup of Europeans. Here the European Americans carrying 58.3%.
R-M269 is extremely rare in Africans and it is found in high frequencies only in tiny areas. R-V88 is also rare in Africa as a whole but is very high in some groups in the Chad Basin around Cameroon.
Yet here African Americans are showing 17.3% R-M269 so they must be getting it from either the European Americans or the Native Americans. Europeans are a much larger population than Native Americans. They have also had a lot more contact with Africans than Native Americans. Some African Americans mixed with Native Americans but most did not escape slavery and integrate into Indian tribes. Africans have been historically a part of the European American society whereas many Native Americans live in reservations. The data reflects this. African Americans and have not mixed that much with Native Americans as we can see on the chart carrying under 1% of the predominant Q lineage of Native Americans while Mestizo Mexicans carry quite a bit of it. [/QB]
Part 2
Stupid Euronut. Given the fact that R1 is found in Africa including R-M269, makes it clear that many Africans who came here as slaves were already carriers of R1-M269, just like the Black Native Americans. Most of the African slaves taken to the United States came from the Senegambia and the Guinea Coast. As a result, the Africans sold as slaves in the United States came from a region where a majority of Africans carrying R1-M269 lived. As a result, the Afro-Americans living in the United States probably acquired R1-M269 from their origination in West Africa, and later admixture with the Black Native Americans who were also made slaves in the South, or lived in "Colored Communities".
In fact recent research on y-haplogroups in Africa suggest that R1-M269 is also widespread in Africa.
In relation to R-M269 in Africa, around 0.1 of Sub Saharan Africans carry R1b1b2. Wood et al (2009) found that Khoisan (2.2%) and Niger-Congo (0.4%) speakers carried the R-M269 y-chromosome. The Khoisan also carry RM343 (R1b) and M 198 (R1a1)(Naidoo et al., 2010). [b] The archaeological and linguistic data indicate the successful colonization of Asia by Sub-Agro-Pastoral Saharan Africans from Nubia 5-4kya (Winters, 2007,2008, 2010c). The archaeological evidence makes it clear that around 4kya intercultural style artifacts connected Africa and Eurasia (Winters, 2007,2010c). It also makes it clear that the people from the Levant and Anatolia who introduced R1-M269 into Europe during the Neolithic were Sub-Saharan Africans.
Above is a figure from Gonzalez et al. The Gonzalez et al article found that 10 out of 19 subjects in the study carried R1b1-P25 or M269.
This is highly significant because it indicates that 53% of the R1 carriers in this study were M269.
The frequency of R1-M269 in Gonzalez et al, is further proof of the widespread nature of this so-called Eurasian genes in Africa among populations that have not mated with Europeans. Moreover, it explains why there are so many Africans carrying R1-M269 (17%), in the United States--because most United States Sub-Saharan African slaves came from the Guinea Coast and Senegambia where SSA carried R1-M269 at a high frequency.
The R1 haplogroup probably originated in Africa.
.
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. The phylogeography of R1 in Africa makes it clear that this y-chromosome is spread globally across Africa and includes the genetic structure of diverse African populations including Berber, Chadic, Cushitic, Khoisan,Pygmy, Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan and Semitic speaking African populations (Berniell-Lee et al, 2009; Cruciani et al, 2010; Wood et al, 2009). The fact that Dravidians carry the R haplogroup illustrate the recent introduction of R y-chromosome to Eurasia.
Abu-Amero et al (20009) reveal the fact that Dravidians carry the R haplogroups illustrate the recent introduction of Ry-chromosomes to Eurasia. The frequency of haplotype M173 in Eurasia is as follows: Anatolia 0.19%, Iran 2.67%, Iraq 0.49% Oman 1.0%, Pakistan 0.57% and Oman 1.0% . This contrast sharply with the widespread distribution of R1 in Africa that ranges between 7- 95% in various parts of Africa, especially Cameroon (Coia et al, 2005). Coia et al (2005) has revealed that no maternal Eurasian lineages have been found among Sub-Saharan Africans with a R1- M173 profile.
Haplogroup V88 has the greatest frequency in Africa. It is predominately carried by Chadic speakers, ranges between 2-60% among Central African Niger-Congo speakers (Cruciani et al, 2010). Researchers have found that the TMRCA of V88 was 9200-5600 kya (Cruciani et al, 2010).
The vast majority of Africans belong to the y-chromosome E macrohaplogroup. Phylogenetically haplogroup R1b is mainly found in West Africa and the Sahel.
In this region the frequency of R-M173 can range between 85-100% among some Niger Congo speakers in Cameroon (Cruciani et al, 2010). The paternal record of M173 on the African continent illustrates a greater distribution of this y-chromosome among varied African populations than, in Asia.
The greatest diversity of R1b in Africa is highly suggestive of an Africa origin for this male lineage because it is not isolated to just one part of Africa.
Archaeological (Lal, 1963), genetic (Winters, 2008;2010a), placenames (Balakrishnan, 2005) and linguistic data group (Aravanan,1979,1980; Upadhyaya, 1976,1979; Winters 1985a,1985b, 1989) linking Africans and Dravidian support the recent demic diffusion of SubSaharan Africans and gene flow from Africa to Eurasia. An early colonization of Eurasia 4kya by Sub-Saharan Africans and Dravidian carriers of R1-M173 is the best scenario to explain the high frequency and widespread geographical distribution of this y-chromosome on the African continent (Winters, 2010c). Given the greatest diversity of R1- M173, this is the most parsimonious model explaining the frequency of R-M173 in Africa.
Africans carry haplogroup R1a.
In India the Dravidian people carry the R1a haplogroup The Dravidian people of India originally lived in Middle Africa and belonged to the Proto-Saharan Civilization. The Proto-Saharan civilization was situated in the Proto-Sahara, which includes Cameroon. . . In Cameroon we find carriers of R1a. In addition to carriers of R1a in Cameroon; the Dravidian languages are still spoken today in Cameroon see:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjk
Toomas Kivisild1 (2017).The study of human Y chromosome variation through ancient DNA. web page
The article is interesting. It is most interesting because it places V88 and M269 in ancient Europe. In conclusion, the R macrohaplogroup probably originated in Africa. In my paper POSSIBLE AFRICAN ORIGIN OF Y-CHROMOSOME R1-M173 , I argue that the P clade originated in Africa because 1) the age of R-V88; 2) the presence of V88 in Neolithic Europe and 3) the widespread nature of R1 in Africa.
Researchers have found that the TMRCA of V88 was 9200-5600 kya (Cruciani et al, 2010). Eurasians carry the M269 (R1b1b2) mutation. The subclades of R1b1b2 include Rh1b1b2g (U106) (TMRCA 8.3kya) and R1b1b2h (U152) (TMRCA 7.4kya). The most recent common ancestor for R1b1b2 is probably 8kya (Balaresque et al, 2010). In Africa we find R-M269 and V88. There is no archaeological evidence of Eurasians making a back migration into Africa, but their is archaeological evidence of the migration of the Kushites and Proto-Saharans into Eurasia from Middle Africa.This is supported by the presence of V88 and M269 among the Yamnaya and Bell Beaker folk; and the origin of these cultures in Morocco.
This supports the proposition the R haplogroups originated in Africa, not Eurasia.
Elmaestro Member # 22566
posted
V88 must be in n afro american or two..
It's all over Haiti, and randomly pops up in the Caribbean. Bahamas, jamaica, Haiti
Y-chromosomal diversity in Haiti and Jamaica: Contrasting levels of sex-biased gene flow T. Simms 2012
quote:Our results reveal that both studied populations exhibit a predominantly South- Saharan paternal component, with haplogroups A1b- V152, A3-M32, B2-M182, E1a-M33, E1b1a-M2, E2b-M98, and R1b2-V88 comprising 77.2% and 66.7% of the Hai- tian and Jamaican paternal gene pools, respectively
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: V88 must be in n afro american or two..
It's all over Haiti, and randomly pops up in the Caribbean. Bahamas, jamaica, Haiti
Y-chromosomal diversity in Haiti and Jamaica: Contrasting levels of sex-biased gene flow T. Simms 2012
quote:Our results reveal that both studied populations exhibit a predominantly South- Saharan paternal component, with haplogroups A1b- V152, A3-M32, B2-M182, E1a-M33, E1b1a-M2, E2b-M98, and R1b2-V88 comprising 77.2% and 66.7% of the Hai- tian and Jamaican paternal gene pools, respectively
Thank's for the info. Haiti is interesting because there was little African and European admixture on the Island. Also, there were many Black Native Americans sold on these Islands.
capra Member # 22737
posted
Thanks El Maestro, I never saw that study before. R1b-M18 in Jamaica! That's new to me. And a rare DE* too. Still never sequenced 14 years after its discovery.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
The key to this is "The Most Recent Common Ancestor".
"Researchers have found that the TMRCA of V88 was 9200-5600 kya "
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: V88 must be in n afro american or two..
It's all over Haiti, and randomly pops up in the Caribbean. Bahamas, jamaica, Haiti
Y-chromosomal diversity in Haiti and Jamaica: Contrasting levels of sex-biased gene flow T. Simms 2012
quote:Our results reveal that both studied populations exhibit a predominantly South- Saharan paternal component, with haplogroups A1b- V152, A3-M32, B2-M182, E1a-M33, E1b1a-M2, E2b-M98, and R1b2-V88 comprising 77.2% and 66.7% of the Hai- tian and Jamaican paternal gene pools, respectively
Seen the study, but never really read it.
Thanks.
I will look into is soon.
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: V88 must be in n afro american or two..
It's all over Haiti, and randomly pops up in the Caribbean. Bahamas, jamaica, Haiti
Y-chromosomal diversity in Haiti and Jamaica: Contrasting levels of sex-biased gene flow T. Simms 2012
quote:Our results reveal that both studied populations exhibit a predominantly South- Saharan paternal component, with haplogroups A1b- V152, A3-M32, B2-M182, E1a-M33, E1b1a-M2, E2b-M98, and R1b2-V88 comprising 77.2% and 66.7% of the Hai- tian and Jamaican paternal gene pools, respectively
Nice rerference
quote: Haplogroup E1b1a-M2, a genetic signature of the Bantu expansion throughout South-Saharan Africa (Ber- niell-Lee et al., 2009), is present at elevated levels (63.4% in Haiti and 60.4% in Jamaica) in both of the populations analyzed. Of this haplogroup’s sublineages, E1b1a7-M191 (26.8% and 27.7% in Haiti and Jamaica, respectively) and E1b1a8-U175 (26% in Haiti and 23.3% in Jamaica) chromosomes are the most prevalent, whereas the E1b1a*-M2 paragroup is detected at rela- tively lower frequencies in Haiti (9.8%) and Jamaica (9.4%). Within the E1b1a7 subclade, all of the Haitian (26.8%) and the majority of Jamaican (25.8%) males belong to subhaplogroup E1b1a7a-U174, whereas E1b1a8 chromosomes are predominately carriers of the E1b1a8a-P278 mutation (13% and 11.3% in Haiti and Jamaica, respectively) or its derivative, E1b1a8a1-U290 (12.2% in Haiti and 10.7% in Jamaica). R1b1b1-M269 lineages, on the other hand, comprise 14.6% and 13.2% of the Haitian and Jamaican gene pools, respectively. It is interesting to note that, in both collections, R1b1b1a1b2-M529 chromosomes, which are common among populations from Britain, Ireland and, to a lesser extent, France, Norway and Sweden (Myres et al., 2011), are detected at the highest frequency (4.1% in Haiti and 6.3% in Jamaica), although, in Haiti, the R1b1b1a1b*-S116 subclade, which is reported at elevated levels in the United Kingdom, France, and the Iberian Peninsula (Myres et al., 2011), is observed at a commen- surate level (4.1%). Of the remaining R-M306 subli- neages observed in this study, haplogroup R1b2*-V88, which is prevalent throughout the central African Sahel (Cruciani et al., 2010), is detected at higher proportions in the collection from Haiti (4.9%), whereas R1a1a- M198, a subclade present at elevated levels in Central and South Asia (e.g., 50% in Kyrgyzstan and 39.7% in Central Uttar Pradesh, India; Underhill et al., 2010), is more representative of Jamaicans (3.8%).
--Y-chromosomal diversity in Haiti and Jamaica: Contrasting levels of sex-biased gene flow T. Simms 2012
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