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Egyptian DNA, Forumbiodiversity, sub-Saharan Africa
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: [qb] From looking at that link,, I have to laugh. I've been on ES since 2003 and on FBF and I can say that it was never the position of any so called "Afrocentrist" that Ancient Egyptians were always or even fully SSA. It was always maintained that the civilization and its people were of African origin, period, it makes no sense to use the results of that Middle Egypt, Late Dynastic sample as a means to beat on strawman arguments. [/qb][/QUOTE]Exactly. The denizens therein are running the same old game of creating extreme strawmen, set up to "refute." [/qb][/QUOTE]Indeed, but I would like to get their take on what they consider to be "sub-Saharan." What was sub-Saharan then might not be the same "sub-Saharan" then. If they believe that in essence they're assuming African populations don't change. Since the earliest "Eurasian" migrated OOA, no doubt they still carried residual African ancestry which means that what is "Eurasian" back then is not the same as "Eurasian" today. [/qb][/QUOTE][b]What was sub-Saharan then might not be the same "sub-Saharan" then.[/b] Bass I take it you have a typo here and mean "What was sub-Saharan then, might not be the same 'sub-Saharan' NOW." Are you saying that "sub-Saharan" is a malleable term that assorted claimants want to fix in a static, stereotypical position, so they can then contrast all else against the stereotypical setup? A geographic version of the standard "true negro" bio stereotype? This would be standard Eurocentric distortion, noted even in the literature by Keita et al. The exact nature of what is called "sub-Saharan" can be tricky at times. Recalling Vogel 1997- [i]"Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, (1997), pp. 465-472 )[/i] Given the shifting movement of the desert for centuries- fluctuating back and forth but with an overall southern trend in some eras, what was once "below" the Sahara becomes "above" it. and African peoples are not static entities, huddling behind some climatic "apartheid" barrier. People moving north for example have made themselves "non Sub-Saharan." How often have we seen games played- where the nearby Sudan or Horn is ignored in studies and allegedly "representative" samples from the distant Congo or Guinea someplace are supposed to stand in for "black Africans" or "sub-Saharan" Africans- as of no such people are located close to Egypt, or are anomalies or are not are worthy of study. Fixing a moving target like "sub-Saharan" into a static "apartheid" barrier of sorts, against which a assortment of things can be "contrasted", fulfills a number of ideological agendas meant to distort a truer or more balanced picture of African cultures and peoples. How often have we seen such agendas played out both in the academic literature and among assorted pundits and claimants. [/qb][/QUOTE]What I'm saying is that geneticallly we don't know what "sub-Saharans" were back then, so moderns and ancients...while certainly related and having some continuity with each other may be genetically different.....but still "sub-saharan." Since genetically we have no proof the modern and ancient sub-Saharans were identical its illogical to to expect ancient Egyptians to have "sub-Saharan" ancestry akin to modern select sub-Saharan populations, especially from areas not even close by [/QB][/QUOTE]
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