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[QUOTE]Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: [QB] Originally posted by sudaniya: [b]I never understood why people so desperately tried to associate the ancient Egyptians with populations beyond Central Sudan. I still assert that Southern Egyptians and specific "Nubians" (Lower "Nubia") were ethnically very close and stem from a common origin in the predynastic period. [/b] You can always find someone, some place, closely associating AEs with distant populations like West African populations for example, but extreme associations do not appear much among long-term ES posters. I don't recall such regulars over the years saying AEs are identical to or mostly like West Africans for example. Oh to be sure, troll accounts pop up to make extreme "bait" statements, but I see no such with regulars. Such charges when you hear them, are a sure sign of strawman creation. This is standard practice for Eurocentrics wanting to avoid the evidence of AE as an African civilization- to talk about the "crazy negroes" and alleged "Afrocentrics" who say AEs are "West Africans," and so on. What you say is the general consensus on ES- that populations close to AE, particularly Nubia and that nearby region are the closest relations, and studies have been citied ad infinitum for years on this (Yurco, Godde, Keita etc). It is also the consensus that AE was never any "pure" all-black place, but migrations and gene flow at different levels and at different times did occur. This is the scholarly consensus, and again, no regular with any sense "denies" this. Since I have been banned from Fbio myself for years I cannot say who (if any) are making any "pure black" claims. But knowing Eurocentrics I have no doubt a number of bogus "black militant" accounts are in place to develop fake "Afrocentric" claims- set up for "refutation." But aside from the strawmen, something else to keep in mind is that AEs have long been compared to West Africans by white scholars- it is not "Afrocentrics" who started the process. One of the reasons they made such comparisons is the resemblance of SOME skeletal material in AE to skeletal samples from West Africa. As regards crania, also cited around here for years is Keita's observation that some European scientists in earlier years discarded "negroid" samples in Egypt or reclassified them as something else- such as "Mediterranean." Other scholars came up with all sorts of "explanations" to explain certain traits- everything from "Australoids" to 5-6-10-12 different "races." "Afrocentrics" did not start "race obsessions" in the Nile Valley- white people did with decades of distortion and misrepresentation- sone of which continues today in DNA studies using the stereotypical "true negro" dodge. Another reason scientists compare AEs to West Africans is that both sometimes show certain tropical adaptations- the much cited limb proportions data. Said scientists have a perfectly valid reason for using readily available West African samples or West Af proxies like Black Americans- for both sampling sets represent tropical people, and by analyzing easily available sample sets from modern West Africans descendants like Black Americans, you can estimate the height and other things of ancient AE people. There are sometimes thus very valid SCIENTIFIC reasons for comparing AEs to West Africans like Black Americans. And again, "Afrocentrism" had nothing to do with this. Finally claims about "obsession" with AE are the rankest white hypocrisy. White people are perhaps the most obsessed group with AE, and have massively plundered and/or appropriated AE culture and treasures for millennia. As far back as Greek times white people were appropriating AE, and "obsessed" with it. The Romans themselves plundered numerous AE artifacts for their own collections. Claims of "obsession" are the most cynical white hypocrisy, even as they spend dollars with Egyptian symbols on it to publish books talking bout "Afrocentrism." Likewise pious white lectures that Black Americans should "stick with West Africa" which is their own "proper" heritage. One wonders why white people have not "stuck with Europe" for several millenia when dealing with Egypt, or why today they spend tens of millions annually on Egyptian tourism, rather than "stick with" their own "true" northern or other European heritage. Given such hypocrisy, as well as the massive distortion, denial and misrepresentation of African culture in the Nile Valley, many on ES make no apologies for highlighting the African character or features of Egyptian culture and civilization, fully recognizing that AE was not a static place, and changed over time. I agree with that and offer no apology either. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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