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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by capra: [qb] You don't have to repost everything every time you reply, Clyde. "Interestingly, the earliest offshoot of extant haplogroup R1b-M343 variation, the V88 subclade, which is currently most common in Fulani speaking populations in Africa (Cruciani et al. 2010) has distant relatives in Early Neolithic samples from across wide geographic area from Iberia, Germany to Samara (Fig. 7)." Right. So... in the English language, Clyde, are the "distant relatives" of a group members of the group itself? For instance, if "the British royal family are distant relatives of the Romanovs", does this mean the British royal family are the czars of Russia? If "snails and slugs are distant relatives of the octopus", are gastropods classified as cephalopods? Are members of R1b-M343 which aren't V88 not distant relatives of V88? Since Kivisild does not say that any of the samples were V88, nor does the tree show that they are V88, where did you get the information that any of them was V88? [/qb][/QUOTE]The information about V88 is illustrated on the Figure 7 tree under V88 stupid. Kivisild (2017) claimed the V88 samples from Samara and Spain was in Haak et al 2015. Kivisild (2017) wrote:"[b]Interestingly, the earliest offshoot of extant haplogroup R1b-M343 variation, the V88 subclade, which is currently most common in Fulani speaking populations in Africa (Cruciani et al. 2010) has distant relatives in Early Neolithic samples from across wide geographic area from Iberia, Germany to Samara[/b] (Fig. 7)." . [IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RSNxm48jlPU/WMbJcaZiIPI/AAAAAAAAV7I/5-N_hx1V6mwk9wTMn12Hmdzs_5hIJJPOQCLcB/s1600/439_2017_1773_Fig7_HTML.gif[/IMG] Kivisild (2017) made it clear that the Samara and Spanish samples were different from other aDNA samples. Kivisild (2017) wrote: "Late Neolithic, Early Bronze Age and Iron Age samples from Central and Western Europe have typically the R1b-L11, R1a1-Z283 and R1a-M417 (xZ645) affiliation while the samples from the Yamnaya and Samara neighbourhood are different and belong to sub-clades R1b11-Z2105 and R1a2-Z93 (Allentoft et al. 2015; Cassidy et al. 2016; Haak et al. 2015; Mathieson et al. 2015; Schiffels et al. 2016)." As you can see Haak et al (2015) is cited as a source. In Haak et al(2017) Table S4.2, the Samara and Spain samples were identified as R1b1. Up to 2010, R1b1 was recognized as an African R1 subclade . Africans carried R1b1, the name for this haplogroup was changed to R-L278. In 2010, R-V88 was originally named R1b1a and ; R-V8, was named R1b1a2. Today R-V88 is named R1b1a2, and R1b1a is renamed R-L754. . [QUOTE] Haak et al (2017) Table S4.2: Y-Haplogroup assignments for 34 ancient European males. See : http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2015/02/10/013433.full.pdf [list] [*]I0124 0.96 R1b1 Samara_HG I0410 3.29 R1b1 Spain_EN [/list] [/QUOTE]. [IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4b/58/36/4b5836287235df3c664ccfa8a634e0a2.jpg[/IMG] . The identification of R1b1 as a member of the V88 subclade makes it a relative of V88. Haak et al (2015) had only two samples from Samara and Spain, i.e., named R1b1. The R1b1 samples can be the only "distant relative" of V88 from Samara and Spain, cited by Kivisild (2017). [/QB][/QUOTE]
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