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Lower Egyptian Levanite(?) influence dates 2,000 BC
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oshun: [QB] [QUOTE]Oshun, what you are saying is not the same as what this one paper says. You are putting the data from this one paper together with other sources of AE history to suggest that Northern Egypt was mostly dominated by, populated by or mixed with Levantines starting in 2000 BC. [ That is [b]YOU[/b] saying this and not this one paper. By that same logic you could say that Upper Egypt was dominated by so called "Nubians". Personally, I believe this is a bit of a stretch and there is no hard data for it. And no I am not saying there was no mixture in Egypt. [/QUOTE]Neither the paper nor I said that northern Egypt's mixture with genetic lineages being attributed to the Levant [b]started[/b] at 2000 B.C. This commment shows you didn't read sh!t they said: [QUOTE] Our data seem to indicate close admixture and affinity at a much earlier date, which is unsurprising given the long and complex connections between Egypt and the Middle East. [b]These connections date back to Prehistory[/b] and occurred at a variety of scales, including overland and maritime commerce, diplomacy, immigration, invasion and deportation54. Especially [b]from the second millennium BCE onwards, there were intense, historically- and archaeologically documented contacts, including the large-scale immigration of Canaanite populations, known as the Hyksos, into Lower Egypt,[/b] whose origins lie in the Middle Bronze Age Levant[/QUOTE]The study is concluding large-scale immigration happened. Furthermore it's saying that the lineages found [b]in part[/b] date to prehistory. Which means this connection was always present. These lineages didn't [b]start[/b] arriving in the north at 2,000 B.C. The migrations of the 2,000 B.C era apparently increased the proportion of certain lineages [b]already within the Egyptian population[/b] from prehistoric times. [QUOTE]Again, we don't even know what the DNA profile of an actual ancient "indegenous" Egyptian is from any study EVER yet folks are running around talking about every other population being in Egypt without even being able to tell us the DNA of the actual "indigenous" Egyptians.[/QUOTE]Egyptian was a nationality. They did not decide who could be part of their ethnic group by genetic lineages, or modern notions of race. This author states the lineages date into prehistory suggesting (which is all I can do without making a claim that's non falsifiable/unscientific) that they'd always been in Egypt. These lineages appear to be reflective of indigenous Egyptians of a certain era. IDK what you're expecting the the DNA profiles to tell that would change this, but I'd like to hear it. [QUOTE]Sounds like to me that this is a red flag they are missing something. That is telling you they haven't sampled enough remains. [/QUOTE]It unlikely they'll ever reach a sample size representative of AE let alone AE throughout it's entire period. That's why science can only say that "available data and research suggests" a conclusion. [QUOTE]I mean how on earth are folks doing DNA studies of Egypt and the only thing they can talk about is "Levantines" or "SSA" but can't tell us anything about the average indigenous Egyptian DNA wise..... That is only common sense. [/QUOTE]Egyptian was a nationality and common culture. Elements that are often deemed "Levanite" "SSA" or lineage M (which is debated in origin) can all be to the area by the time state formation took place. It sounds so far like you're making a conclusion and waiting for data to confirm it. [QUOTE][qb]And yes more data is always better than mere hypothesis. That is also part of science. But there is also something called an 'a-priori' assumption and the fact is most people don't do DNA tests of ancient cultures to determine their "ethnic" background. It is assumed as a given based on the location and presence of other artifacts and elements which are enough to make such a determination. ONLY in Egypt is all this DNA required to "prove" whether the Egyptians were actually Africans and they still haven't found any indigenous Egyptians yet, which we would ASSUME by all logic would be Africans for the most part. [/qb][/QUOTE]Egypt connects to the Levant. It is a country that lived between other Africans and Asiatic peoples. Examples like Rome that you attempted to make analogous to the situation do not have this geographic issue. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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