posted
I am not surprised they pushed back the date (Max Planck). A few months ago I had a debate on this this particular specimen, with what seemed a "right-wing type of academic", insisting that the Jebel Irhoud fossil was the oldest found in the homo sapien sapien lineage.
Of course they will try to claim that this fossil is segregated from the rest of Africa (sub Sahara Africa) and was the precursor / extent to "Eurasians". That is a very Max Planckish thing to do.
Btw, I don't understand the Roman Helmet logo, "Minerva, the Roman goddess of wisdom." it's a fusion of Minerva and a Roman soldiers helmet. (Anyway, both have nothing to do with Western Europe or Germany.)
Admin: Ish, Minerva is derived from the Greek Goddess Athena, who wore a warriors helmet in symbolization of her expertise in tactical&strategic warfare (vs Ares who symbolized the more violent hands on aspects of war) in addition to her role as a goddess of wisdom.
Wikipedia documentation on the Max Planck Society:
quote:The Max Planck Society for the Advancement of Science (German: Max-Planck-Gesellschaft zur Förderung der Wissenschaften e. V.; abbreviated MPG) is a formally independent non-governmental and non-profit association of German research institutes founded in 1911 as the Kaiser Wilhelm Society[1][3] and renamed the Max Planck Society in 1948 in honor of its former president, theoretical physicist Max Planck. The society is funded by the federal and state governments of Germany as well as other sources.[2][1]
quote:The Kaiser Wilhelm Society for the Advancement of Science (German Kaiser-Wilhelm-Gesellschaft zur Förderung der Wissenschaften) was a German scientific institution established in the German Kaiserreich in 1911. During the Third Reich it was involved in Nazi scientific operations, and after the Second World War concluded, its functions were taken over by the Max Planck Society. The Kaiser Wilhelm Society was an umbrella organisation for many institutes, testing stations, and research units created under its authority.
The San used to inhabit North Africa. (Logically).
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: Good **** Capra. I bet 100 bucks that "humanity" arose in the Western part of Africa.
You would probably lose the bet. For much of the history of Africa West Africa was primarily a forested area.
This is beyond silly but moving on.
What Clyde is saying is with this history certain bacteria could be, or could not be traced back.
DD'eDeN Member # 21966
posted
Cameroon Mbo Y DNA 300ka Morocco Hs 300ka So. Africa San 260ka
From Ituri rainforest, multiple waves outwards to all directions...
BlessedbyHorus Member # 22000
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: Good **** Capra. I bet 100 bucks that "humanity" arose in the Western part of Africa.
You would probably lose the bet. For much of the history of Africa West Africa was primarily a forested area.
This is beyond silly but moving on.
What Clyde is saying is with this history certain bacteria could be, or could not be traced back.
I know that. But what I am saying is that Africans would have built up a immunity to such bacteria like they always had with other bacteria and viruses. The Basel Africans would have long adapted to such environment.
And btw not all of West Africa is even forested or was... Only the coastal part. And what I mean in "western Africa" is also Northwest Africa i.e Morocco.
The San used to inhabit North Africa. (Logically).
What source do you have and what humans remains are there that says it's logical the San used to inhabit North Africa?
DD'eDeN Member # 21966
posted
If San were in North Africa, they came lately via the eastern Rift v.alley, I guess, re. Dahalo, Hadza, Sandwe with admixture from northern people; not NW from Namib Kalahari.
The San used to inhabit North Africa. (Logically).
What source do you have and what humans remains are there that says it's logical the San used to inhabit North Africa?
The Khoisan originated in South Africa. The evidence that the Khoisan inhabited north Africa is the archaeological evidence illustrating the spread of the Aurignacian and Solutrean cultures from South Africa to North Africa, and thence Iberia.
Boule and Vallois, in Fossil Men , note that "We know now that the ethnography of South African tribes presents many striking similarities with the ethnography of our populations of the Reindeer Age. Not to speak of their stone implements which, as we shall see later , exhibit great similarities, Peringuey has told us that in certain burials on the South African coast 'associated with the Aurignacian or Solutrean type industry...."(p.318-319). They add, that in relation to Bushman art " This almost uninterrupted series leads us to regard the African continent as a centre of important migrations which at certain times may have played a great part in the stocking of Southern Europe.
Finally, we must not forget that the Grimaldi Negroid skeletons show many points of resemblance with the Bushman skeletons". They bear no less a resemblance to that of the fossil Man discovered at Asslar in mid-Sahara, whose characters led us to class him with the Hottentot-Bushman group."
.
.
This shows that by 44kya (Aurignacian culture) down to the Asselar culture 8400kya Khoisan were in North Africa.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: If San were in North Africa, they came lately via the eastern Rift v.alley, I guess, re. Dahalo, Hadza, Sandwe with admixture from northern people; not NW from Namib Kalahari.
.
. Wrong. The khoisan came to North Africa probably by sailing along the Megalakes that extended from South Africa to North Africa. Interestingly, Blake Whelan of the Royal Irish Academy in 1938 regarded banjo-shaped tools of southern Africa as simple multi-use tools of banjo-shape that he feit were for boat-building.
In a personal communication Harry Bourne noted that: "The San/Khwe are frequently and confidently held not to ever have used boats. However, rock-art in Zimbabwe plus South Africa indicates otherwise. Likewse these confident assertions can probably be put aside when the Banoko are consdered, as their other name is the River San. Not to be overlooked is the Khwe leader called Hary arrested by the Dutch at Cape Town and imprisoned on Roben Island centuries before Nelson Mandela. His boat-handling skills certainly impressed his Dutch captors when he escaped in a ricketty old boat and reached the mainland. Such expertise is not acquired overnight. "
DD'eDeN Member # 21966
posted
Dr. Winters, the problem is of specific definition of a group. Are the Andamanese San? To me, they descend from Aka Congo Pygmies who went southeast to the Rift then east to India -Burma, then south to isles as Aka. They aren't San, but share some traits with Nam.A.kwa/khoi such as steatopygia. But San "aka" is Andaman "aka" is English "t.alka.tive" is Malay "c.aka.p" is Tigrinha "qa.l". We are one, of Pygmy descent.
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
. Wrong. The khoisan came to North Africa probably by....
It makes no sense to tell someone they're a re wrong and then show you are uncertain yourself by saying "probably"
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Dr. Winters, the problem is of specific definition of a group. Are the Andamanese San? To me, they descend from Aka Congo Pygmies who went southeast to the Rift then east to India -Burma, then south to isles as Aka. They aren't San, but share some traits with Nam.A.kwa/khoi such as steatopygia. But San "aka" is Andaman "aka" is English "t.alka.tive" is Malay "c.aka.p" is Tigrinha "qa.l". We are one, of Pygmy descent.
I agree , the Andamen are related to the Anu or pygmy people
The Khoisan did not successfully colonize India. It appears that the Khoisan were mainly absorbed by the Veddoid (Australian) population that settled India between 100kya and 60kya. Some of the Munda people on the mainland may be descendants of khoisan who may have migrated to South Asia.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
. Wrong. The khoisan came to North Africa probably by....
It makes no sense to tell someone they're a re wrong and then show you are uncertain yourself by saying "probably"
'Probably", is just a term scholars/ researchers use to refer to things that happened before there is documented primary evidence of a relationship in the form of historical text, documents and etc.
But, if you re-read what I wrote I discussed the archaeological and artefactual evidence of the transfer of southern African cultures (i.e., Solutrean and Aurignacian) to nprth Africa.
The San used to inhabit North Africa. (Logically).
What source do you have and what humans remains are there that says it's logical the San used to inhabit North Africa?
More dumb questions.
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
No it's a smart question and you have no source to quote
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: Good **** Capra. I bet 100 bucks that "humanity" arose in the Western part of Africa.
You would probably lose the bet. For much of the history of Africa West Africa was primarily a forested area.
This is beyond silly but moving on.
What Clyde is saying is with this history certain bacteria could be, or could not be traced back.
I know that. But what I am saying is that Africans would have built up a immunity to such bacteria like they always had with other bacteria and viruses. The Basel Africans would have long adapted to such environment.
And btw not all of West Africa is even forested or was... Only the coastal part. And what I mean in "western Africa" is also Northwest Africa i.e Morocco.
One can build up immunity, but the presence of bacteria itself doesn't have to "disappear" necessarily because of this.
I had a paper on West Africa's Paleolithic environmental conditions. Unfortunately I can't find it. However, it is somewhere on the forum.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: No it's a smart question and you have no source to quote
You need to shut up, especially when you don't answer peoples questions.
And yes, there are sources of course and the subject has been address several times already on this forum.
But one only need to use logic to understand this, $%^&!, even without sources.
Tukuler Member # 19944
posted
I think there's no such thing as a dumb question.
Logically if pre-proto San-like genomes were the only ones around in a given era then they're everywhere humans lived at the time.
That said, some disguise their assertions as questions and others will deny validity to any answers disagreeing with their rhetoric.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
posted
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Logically if pre-proto San-like genomes were the only ones around in a given era then they're everywhere humans lived at the time.
DD'eDeN Member # 21966
posted
Dr. Winters, logic dictates that I reject your term "Anu" for (proto) Pygmies, since they do not refer to themselves that way, other groups do not refer to them that way, and I have found no context anywhere that ties Pygmy people to the term "Anu".
The hieroglyph you show does not specify Pygmies, it shows woven clothing never worn traditionally by Congo or Andaman Pygmies. -
Dr. Winters: "I agree , the Andamen are related to the Anu or pygmy people"
I specifically asked about KhoiSan and Andaman.
I ask again, are Andaman people KhoiSan?
I will consider a non-answer to be evasion. -
engur (Sumerian) subsoil water (internal water, as opposed to open exposed water)
I do respect your research and conjecture, I often disagree with your interpretation, but accept it is possible, since my interpretation is limited to my own research, which is limited by time and experience. There is lots I don't know. -
Aka Bea (Andamans) Pygmy tribe, language
Aka (Congo) Pygmy tribe Bye/Bea (Congo) Clan first name of Mbuti Pygmy Ota Benga who was displayed at Worlds Fair, written as 'Bye Ota Benga' on document. -
Reindeer & desert Oryx both make a clicking sound with their ankles while walking on loose ground (dry sand, snow). It is possible that KhoiSan click consonants began as Pygmy words which became imitative to this dry air clicking.
I think Oryx ~ Aurochs ~ Orein (Huron: deer) ~ Reindeer referred to coat color reddish-grey-ochre tone, related to dawn sky Aura and fur-hair aurat (Arabic), particularly noticeable in open country as opposed to under rainforest canopy.
- Congo basin has drained via Congo River for at least 1.5ma, so unlikely mega-Lake Congo was as large as shown on your map, though it could have been larger/deeper than today at certain periods.
I have no doubt that dugout canoes were invented in Moluccas/Papua, rather than in Africa or EurAsia, as a result of sago processing.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Dr. Winters, logic dictates that I reject your term "Anu" for (proto) Pygmies, since they do not refer to themselves that way, other groups do not refer to them that way, and I have found no context anywhere that ties Pygmy people to the term "Anu".
The hieroglyph you show does not specify Pygmies, it shows woven clothing never worn traditionally by Congo or Andaman Pygmies. -
Dr. Winters: "I agree , the Andamen are related to the Anu or pygmy people"
I specifically asked about KhoiSan and Andaman.
I ask again, are Andaman people KhoiSan?
I will consider a non-answer to be evasion. -
engur (Sumerian) subsoil water (internal water, as opposed to open exposed water)
I do respect your research and conjecture, I often disagree with your interpretation, but accept it is possible, since my interpretation is limited to my own research, which is limited by time and experience. There is lots I don't know. -
Aka Bea (Andamans) Pygmy tribe, language
Aka (Congo) Pygmy tribe Bye/Bea (Congo) Clan first name of Mbuti Pygmy Ota Benga who was displayed at Worlds Fair, written as 'Bye Ota Benga' on document. -
Reindeer & desert Oryx both make a clicking sound with their ankles while walking on loose ground (dry sand, snow). It is possible that KhoiSan click consonants began as Pygmy words which became imitative to this dry air clicking.
I think Oryx ~ Aurochs ~ Orein (Huron: deer) ~ Reindeer referred to coat color reddish-grey-ochre tone, related to dawn sky Aura and fur-hair aurat (Arabic), particularly noticeable in open country as opposed to under rainforest canopy.
- Congo basin has drained via Congo River for at least 1.5ma, so unlikely mega-Lake Congo was as large as shown on your map, though it could have been larger/deeper than today at certain periods.
I have no doubt that dugout canoes were invented in Moluccas/Papua, rather than in Africa or EurAsia, as a result of sago processing.
. .
The Anu was the name of the pygmies before the Great Flood. The Pygmies today as those found throughout the world by the European explorers in the Americas and Eurasia are living on a primative level today, but as proven by the Egyptian documents this was not always the case.
DD'eDeN Member # 21966
posted
.
DD'eDeN Member # 21966
posted
Dr. Winters, our opinions diverge.
You did not answer the question of whether the Andaman people are KhoeSan.
Stone tools used to modify bone (not for food) in Qesem Cave, Israel, 300ka. -
300ka mtDNA Mbo - Cameroon-Nigeria Pygmies 300ka early Hs - Morocco bones & stone tools 260ka KhoiSan split south from MbaTwa Pygmies 300ka bone sawing - Qesem cave, Israel
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Dr. Winters, our opinions diverge.
You did not answer the question of whether the Andaman people are KhoeSan.
I know the answer.
I said the Andamen were not Khoisan. They are related to the Anu.
DD'eDeN Member # 21966
posted
The Andaman people descend from eastern KhoiSan from SE batwa-akwa-aka Pygmies. They did not remain long enough in the arid zone to evolve full click consonants but the women developed some steatopygia due to selection for daily walking on dry sand along beaches. Note that neither Africa nor Andamans had coconut or bananas despite nearby Malaya having both. - OT: The Egyptian goddess Bat carried a sheshekm/shaker rattle of djet form with disk metal beads which was derived from earlier ostrich drilled eggshell beads, which were river-ferry tokens, and as used like rung bells (and became the Chinese abacus). Bat may be linked to Hebrew bat/birth of daughter. Egyptian Bat & Hathor = horned goddess = Freija(friday) may link to aka uru= water bearer moon = aquariu(s/m) was a netbag with an ostrich egg canteen !hxaro to bear then bury for dry season, each egg etched to indicate ownership, the origin of ntjr signature.cartouche.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
300,000 Year Old Homo Sapiens Remains | Jebel Irhoud, Morocco History with Kayleigh
quote: For a long time it was believed that the oldest Homo sapiens fossils were from East Africa, and therefore it was long believed that we modern humans originate from that area of Africa.
But what if I told you that the Oldest fossilized remains of Homo sapiens were found in North Africa?
To be exact, these fossils were discovered in the Country of Morocco and even though there are some anthropologists that contest these fossils, they do represent the oldest discovered Homo sapiens remains that we have ever found so far.
The discovery of the homo sapiens fossils at Jebel Irhoud suggest that homo sapiens did not emerge from East Africa like it was long believed, but that they were most likely emerging along the entire length of Africa at least 100,000 years earlier, and not contained in one location.
It´s even possible that the earliest homo sapiens interbred with numerous species around 330,000 years ago, this would have most likely happened on a continental scale instead, which sounds a lot more likely than our species emerging in only one confined corner of the continent.
Of course as you can imagine, attempts to extract DNA from these fossils have all been unsuccessful, it´s nearly impossible to extract DNA from fossils that are this old in the climate of the African continent.
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