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Europeans have different Neolithic ancestry than South Asians
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] I have seen nothing credible that supports them being Elamites rather than Persians[/qb][/QUOTE]How about all the evidence from both Assyrians and Egyptians as well as the Greeks that Persians proper were a "[i]white[/i]" people who according to the Greeks are "whiter" in complexion than them! [/QUOTE][IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Darius_III_of_Persia.jpg[/IMG] Detail of Darius III Reign (380–330 BC) from the Alexander Mosaic circa 100 BC [IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/564x/57/81/fa/5781fab2afc8f526621590a464f5eeea.jpg[/IMG] Darius I, Behistun Persian Ruins, 521 BC [/qb][/QUOTE]What you and many others fail to understand is that 'Persia' during the Greco-Persian Wars was an [i]Empire[/i]. Thus "Persian" could either mean the general nationality or it could mean the specific ethnicity i.e. the Parsi people themselves. Thus in most cases of the literature the Greeks did not bother to distinguish and all the soldiers of the empire were "Persian" regardless of their ethnicity while other times they did specifcy either Parsi, Mede, or even Elamite. [URL=http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/herodotus-iii]Herodotus[/URL] for example: [i] In the Histories the Persians are sometimes not exactly distinguishable from other peoples of their empire, especially when the Greeks’ opponents are simply qualified as “Persians.” The Persians generally are run together with the Medes, as can be recognized by Herodotus’s use of the terms mēdízein and mēdismós (Myres, 1936; Graf, 1984; Tuplin, 1994, 1997; Rollinger, 2003). He also states that the Persians have adopted Median attire (1.35; Armayor, 1978c, p. 5). Both Medes and Persians are qualified by Herodotus as an éthnos, and he lists six génea for each, respectively. (The génea may be understood as a descent group. For the use of éthnos and génea in Herodotus, see Jones, 1996; Tanck, 1997). The Median génea are: Boûsai, Parētakēnoí, Stroúxates, Arizantoí, Boúdioi, Mágoi (1.101). The Persian are Pasargádai, Maráphioi, Máspioi, Panthialaîoi, Dērousiaîoi, Germánioi (1.125.3-4; cf. Briant, 1984, pp. 102-18; Erbse, 1992, pp. 181-89; Schmitt, 1996). The first three Persian génea are the leading ones, of whom the Pasargádai are said to be the most noble (áristoi). Only for them Herodotus adduces a clan lineage group (phrḗtrē), which is called Axaimenídai (Schmitt, 1987), a distinctive part of whom are the Perseídai, the Persian kings (Rollinger, 1998 [1999], p. 188). Herodotus does not provide a direct genealogical line leading from this dim and distant era into the historically clearer past. These Persian génea are qualified as farmers (arotḗres), but he also lists four nomadic ones: Dáoi, Márdoi, Dropikoí, Sagártioi. Later the Sagártioi are described as being Persian in speech but only half-Persian in respect to their war equipment (7.85.1). Thus Herodotus draws the picture of a stratified éthnos with different economic and social levels (Bichler, 2000b, p. 218).[/i] Or when it came to the Persian elite warriors-- [URL=https://www.britannica.com/topic/Ten-Thousand-Immortals]the Ten Thousand Immortals[/URL]: [i] Ten Thousand Immortals, in Persian history, core troops in the Achaemenian army, so named because their number of 10,000 was immediately reestablished after every loss. Under the direct leadership of the hazarapat, or commander in chief, [b]the Immortals, who formed the king’s personal bodyguard, consisted primarily of Persians but also included Medes and Elamites.[/b] They apparently had special privileges, such as being allowed to take concubines and servants along with them on the march. On coloured glazed bricks and carved reliefs found at the Achaemenian capitals, such as the Palace of Artaxerxes at Susa, the Immortals are often represented standing stiffly at attention, each soldier’s wooden spear with its silver blade and pomegranate insignia held upright and resting firmly on his toe. They wore elaborate robes and much gold jewelry. An elite 1,000 of the Immortals were further distinguished by having gold pomegranates on their spears.[/i] Non of this changes the fact that the Parsi proper as well as the Medes were indeed fair or pale skin compared to the Greeks. According to Greek sources, the Persians were likened to women in that they not only wore trousers but also wore long sleeves covering their arms and even wrapped their heads with cloths that covered their faces. This differed from the skirt wearing, more skin exposed, face showing Greek warriors. Many Greek commentators spoke of how Persian men didn't like exposing their skin to the sun and elements which again to the Greeks was 'effeminate' and which explains Xenophon's description of stripped Persian warriors having pale skins exposed. The Alexander mural depicting Darius III above is accurate in that it shows a man whose uncovered face sports a tan, which is different from the chocolate dark i.e. [i]black[/i] Elamite warriors. Here are a couple more later sources on Parsi appearance: [i]beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and [b]the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed.[/b][/i' Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) 1st Century A.D [i]The whites at most consist of the people of [b]Persia, Jibal (northwest Iran), and Khurasan (northeast Iran & Afghanistan)[/b], the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous;[/i] Al Jahiz-Glory of the Sudan to Bidan(Blacks over the Whites)..9th Century [/QB][/QUOTE]
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