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Vedic Origins of the Europeans: the Children of Danu (Questions)
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by coolnight: [QB] '' As far as your claim of Europeans being connected to Kalash and not the other way around, this preposition makes no sense whatsoever as 'shared ancestry' implies kinship through a shared ancestor NOT on group deriving from another. '' I never disagreed. Read my comment again. I have clearly stated that when it comes to the concept of shared ancestry/a shared ancestral component between groups we need to understand if the shared ancestral component is ethnically distinct from the groups that share this ancestry or if the component derives from one group to understand the relation/connection between the groups. I have clearly and categorically stated this aboce. Europeans are connected to Kalash and not vice versa if the shared ancestral component ANE was ethnically/genetically kalash in origin or very closely related to kalash (or vice versa if the ANE was ethnically/genetically european). Otherwise it would simply mean they share ancestors. If the ANE were distinct from both europeans and kalash then I do not disagree that kalash and europeans simply share ancestors.There is nothing to argue on over this point. ''Again you seem to be implying the unproven hypothesis of the Indian/South Asian origins of Indo-European when no evidence-- linguistic, archaeological, or otherwise supports this. ANE which means Ancient Northern Eurasian is an ancestral component that differs from those of South Asia which is comprised of Ancient South Indian (ASI) and Ancient North Indian (ANI) as well as the Southwest Asian component associated with the introduction of neolithic culture which you cited here. Is this ANE ancestry associated with any one ethnic or cultural group? The answer is no because it predates many cultural groups including Indo-European and even today not only does it include Indo-European speakers but also Uralic speakers like Hungarians and others in the Ural Mountains but NOT South Asians. Again you seem to be misunderstand what am saying. I never claimed indo european is south asian in origin. I asked ''But again what does indo european links mean?'' am trying to be specific and clear on what we are discussing when we talk indo european. Are we discussing genes? language? if we are discussing genes then which group represents indo european genes? which group represents in do european language? which group represents indo european genes and language? What is so difficult for you to understand about this point? Am simply trying to be black and white, clear cut what this indo european nonsense is about? There is no such thing as indo european. There is only indian and european. Indo european is ambiguous term deliberately designed to cause confusion. Indians are not ethnically or genetically europeans but many have historically mixed/hybradised with europeans. Europeans are not ethnically/genetically indians but many have historically mixed/hybradised with indians. So from an ethnic/racial point of view where does indo european fit into these two clear cut ethnically distinct groups indians and europeans? I mean who is this third party the indo europeans from a genetic point of view? Do they fit into the indian group? european group? a seperate group? both groups? I have made it very clear in my comment abocve what am trying to understand from a genetic/ethnic point of view '' For two people/groups to be connected to each other they both have to share the same ancestors but those ancestors have to also represent the genes/ethnic racial identity of at least one group.'' But I made it clear with the example of blacks and europeans that if the ancestry does not derive from one group i.e it is ethnically/racially distinct/seperate group then it would mean they simply share ancestry with no direct connection to each other''If this group/population was neither ethnically european or kalash then both europeans and kalash would share ancestry but neither would be directly connected to each other because neither has the genes of the other they only shared genes of a group that is distinct from both.'' Nowhere have I claimed a south asian origin for indo european. for me the term indo european is valuless. It has no meaning. No such thing as indo european. Either you are directly connected or you share ancestry. Or you share lanuages. These concepts can be stated clearly and simply without invoking nonsense like indo european which have people arguing over nothing. I was talking about how we should understand the relationship between difference groups who share ancestry in general and not specifically about indo european. If you understood my comment to mean ''Again you seem to be implying the unproven hypothesis of the Indian/South Asian origins of Indo-European'' no I want not. I was if you read over my comment again trying to understand exactly what stated next the ethnic/genetic distinction between the groups ''ANE which means Ancient Northern Eurasian is an ancestral component that differs from those of South Asia which is comprised of Ancient South Indian (ASI) and Ancient North Indian (ANI) as well as the Southwest Asian component associated with the introduction of neolithic culture which you cited here. '' We dont really disagree on much in this comment which you yourself have noted ''Again, not only what I typed just above but your very last sentence in your quote above was my point precisely.'' Just seems to be misunderstandings but then there is bound to be some disagreement too. ''The genetic sources I cited were very clear about that. The Kalash are a mixture of different ancestries with one ancesty--ANE-- being shared with Europeans.'' Did not disagree. This is why I do not like terms like Indo- European which connect two or several different population groups under one label. It is such a cause for confusion. Things can be/should be just stated simply and clearly. Thanks for your contribution. Has been good engaging with you. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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