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Ancient Tanzanian Pastoralist results... VERY interesting stuff!
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by capra: [QB] Sorry to go further off topic, but paragroups seem to cause a lot of confusion [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] What is this "pre haplogroup" you speak of? N* is the basal N. That is pre N and it's found in modern populations as quoted above.[/qb][/QUOTE]Pre-haplogroup is an informal way of referring to a lineage with some, but not all, of the mutations defining that haplogroup. If you look at [URL=http://www.phylotree.org/tree/N.htm]PhyloTree[/URL] you can see there are 5 mutations shared by N. Oase-1 is missing two of them: he has ancestral 8701G and 9540C. Likewise MA-1 is missing some of the mutations leading to Y haplogroup R, so we can call him pre-R. This is just to avoid reorganizing the entire frigging tree to account for a single extinct ancient lineage. Pre-N is not the same as N*, which is anything that belongs to haplogroup N but not to any known branch that could be detected by the study in question. N* just means "unidentified branch of N". In fact unless it is a full sequence it is probably part of some known branch. All known full N sequences other than Oase-1 have all 5 mutations and hence are N and not pre-N. So an N* branch is parallel to identified N branches, it doesn't branch off before them, it is not basal or earlier. All three of the sources cited in the Oase-1 Wikipedia article sequenced only the HVS-1 and few coding region mutations, which is a lot cheaper than full sequencing but can make it impossible to determine the actual haplogroup. Now, the second source cited by Wikipedia decided that the N* from Soqotra reported in the first source was actually either I3 or I5. However, the Wikipedia editor who put this stuff in ignores that and refers to all of it as N* anyway. :rolleyes: In fact this Soqotri N* is I5a according to Fernandes et al 2012, I5a2a on PhyloTree. The Algerian N from the third source is some other random subclade unrelated to the Yemeni one. None of it has anything to do with Oase-1. Oase-1 is not any more closely related to any modern N* than he is to, say, U6a1a, or W3b2, or anything else under haplogroup N. You should know better than to trust random junk on Wikipedia, Lioness. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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