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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] ^ My original contention with Yatunde was in regards to what phylum the Nabtans' language belonged not their own physical genetics. Yatunde claims it's Nilo-Saharan, while my opinion is that it's very much possible but without actual evidence we won't know for certain. Language and population are two different entities that are related but not synonymous. I tried to explain this to Tarazah who identifies E-M215 in Southwest Asia with Semitic yet most Semitic speakers today carry J. This shows that languages can be transferred without genes. This is why the majority of English speakers in the world today have NO English that is Anglo-Saxon ancestry. As to the actual genetics of the Nabtans, we don't have any genetic samples as far as I know but we do have samples from the Bronze Age Pre-Kerman site of Kadruka. [IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/XYdd8Y8v/admixturegraph-Kadruka.png[/IMG] ^ The sample is almost half "Eurasian". Yet Kadruka lies much farther south than Nabta. [IMG]https://polstudy.files.wordpress.com/2018/06/nabta-playa-plus.jpg?w=600&h=600&c=crop[/IMG] So the question is when did this allegedly Eurasian ancestry enter that far south in the Nile Valley? [/qb][/QUOTE]Not sure where that DNA sample is from but I assume it is from that Kadruka hair sample from 4000 years ago. Obviously one sample is just a drop in the bucket and would need more data to show how it relates to overall population movements. The bigger issue is that the Upper Nile and Lower Sudan has more sites of settlement going back 20,000 years or more than the Lower Nile. Because for a long time that area was more suitable than the Lower Nile for human occupation. And it is during that time that you see population settlements moving between the Sahara and the Nile. Ancient Kerma (prior to 5,000 BC) or the Khartoum Mesolithic and other sites attest to this, along with Nabta Playa, Wadi Halfa and so forth. To characterize these clusters of populations as "Eurasian" makes no sense. And of course it is from this region that the question of the origin of cattle domestication on the Nile has come up numerous times. Kadruka hair study: 4000-year-old hair from the Middle Nile highlights unusual ancient DNA degradation pattern and a potential source of early eastern Africa pastoralists https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-25384-y That DNA plot was generated by somebody on a site called revoiye as posted in this thread: https://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=010612 [QUOTE] The cemetery of Ghaba, consisting of 265 graves, was excavated under direction of Y. Lecointe by the Section Française de la Direction des Antiquités du Soudan (1982–1985). The cemetery dates to 4750–4350 and 4000–3650 cal BC (Salvatori and Usai, 2007, Salvatori and Usai, 2008b, Salvatori et al., 2015), thus being partly contemporaneous with R12. Organic material included bucrania of domestic cattle, few tools made of bone from domestic and/or wild animals, and freshwater molluscs. In 39 graves, whitish deposits that were similar to those from R12 were recorded (see Supplementary data file 1). Two samples from graves 233 and 295 were available for analysis. Initially, these deposits were intuitively interpreted as remains of mats and/or leather clothes (Lecointe, 1987, p. 73, p. 78). The earlier obtained identifications of silica skeletons, phytoliths and starch from dental calculus from R12 and Ghaba as well as the 14C dates are presented in Madella et al. (2014). At R12, phytoliths were obtained from grave 46 (Fig. 3) that belongs to a cluster of graves that represents the oldest phase of the site and which included a grave dated to 4933–4688 cal BC (grave 18B). The silica skeletons in this sample show dominance of inflorescences (chaff) of the C3 grasses Hordeum sp. and/or Triticum sp. (Triticeae) (see Fig. 4). Although phytoliths of these taxa do not allow for a distinction between wild and domesticated plants, the finds from R12 are interpreted as domesticated emmer wheat and/or hulled barley since wild relatives of these taxa are not known from this region and period (Weiss and Zohary, 2011, Zohary et al., 2012). The phytolith sample was directly radiocarbon dated to 5311–5066 cal BC (2σ) and corresponds with the earliest phase of the site. [b]In contrast to R12, the silica skeletons from Ghaba have shown dominance of inflorescences of various C4 panicoid grasses, including Brachiaria sp. and Echinochloa sp., directly dated to 5620–5480 cal BC and 4730–4540 cal BC (2σ) (see Fig. 4). Again the phytoliths do not allow for a distinction between wild and domesticated taxa. Although some form of plant management may have taken place, the most parsimonious assumption for these taxa is that it concerns wild grasses since there is no substantial evidence of domesticated panicoid taxa for this region and period. The Ghaba phytolith samples also verified a minor component of Hordeum sp./Triticum sp.[/b][/QUOTE] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1040618215014615 [QUOTE] [b]With the research on the issue in its initial phases, the behaviour and hunting strategies of MSA communities inhabiting the Nile Valley in the Late and Terminal Pleistocene have been fragmentarily recognised thus far. Osteological materials from the area of the Affad Basin in the Middle Nile Valley, recorded in archaeological contexts and dated to the sixteenth millennium BP using OSL methods, have significantly enhanced our knowledge in this regard. It is the first time that an opportunity has occurred to construct a reliable model of the environment exploitation and the behaviour of human groups producing lithic tools using Levallois methods in the Terminal Pleistocene.[/b] Archaeozoological analyses have allowed the identification of taxa, species and anatomical origin of remains and enabled the establishment of a database of osteometric measurements. The animals hunted in the Sudanese Nile Valley during the Terminal Pleistocene have been classified with a view to refer the data to the results of analogous studies on MSA in South Africa. The behaviour of the communities occupying the Affad Basin 15,000 years ago was connected to the environment of the tree-covered, swampy savannah and extensive backwaters. Medium-sized antelope (kobus) was hunted most often. People hunted also, albeit less frequently, for large ruminants (buffalo), guenons and large rodents. Remains of fish and mega-fauna (hippopotamus and elephant) have been found in isolated concentrations, away from the camp sites. Remains of molluscs or ostrich eggs have not been registered. The condition of the osteological materials, notably their anatomical distribution, is shown to have been largely affected by wetland environment, rich in iron and manganese. [/QUOTE] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1040618215014615 [QUOTE] [b]In northeastern Africa, the Inter-Tropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) weather system influenced biotic productivity and people's abilities to live away from major rivers and oases in what is now the Sahara. During the Holocene Saharan humid phase (8500 to 5300 BC), the ITCZ was far north of its present location, and human populations settled the suddenly green and well-watered Saharan grasslands as semi-sedentary foragers who developed widespread ceramics in the tenth millennium BC (Caneva, 1987; Huysecom et al., 2009; Kuper & Kröpelin, 2006).[b] Within this context, pastoralism—rather than farming—was the earliest food production system in most of Africa except for the Nile delta (Linseele, 2010; Marshall & Hildebrand, 2002; see Salvatori & Usai, 2019 for a dissenting view). The adoption of cattle herding spread throughout the Sahara, Eastern Saharan oases, and along the Nile between 7000 and 4000 years BC, and Southwest Asian sheep and goats were introduced within a millennium (Gifford-Gonzalez & Hanotte, 2011; Linseele, 2010). Although scholars have offered a variety of explanations for the initial adoption of pastoralism in the Sahara, most agree that experimentation with herding and increasing mobility provided Saharan populations with a means of buffering themselves against the consequences of climate change (Di Lernia, 2001; Marshall & Hildebrand, 2002; Nicoll, 2004; Stojanowski & Knudson, 2014).[/b] By 3500 BC, an even more dramatic decrease in rainfall caused Saharan populations to concentrate themselves into the wadis (seasonal watercourses), oases, and remaining marshes (Hoelzmann et al., 2001; Kuper & Kröpelin, 2006; Kuper & Reimer, 2013). [b]When these areas dried up, some Saharan populations shifted east into the Nile Valley and Eastern Saharan oases (Brooks, 2006; Di Lernia, 2006; Hassan, 2002), where pasturelands and water would have been attractive for seasonal migrations (Haaland & Haaland, 2013).[/b] [b]Meanwhile, Holocene peoples along the Nile had developed economies based on intensive gathering of wild plants and exploitation of wild animals, some becoming semi-sedentary (Haaland, 1992; Nicoll, 2004; Wetterstrom, 1997). By 6000 BC, these Nile Valley subsistence strategies began to accommodate the initial influx of caprines from Southwest Asia (Wengrow et al., 2014). After 5300 BC, the ICTZ's maximum northward movements shifted south, and the Sahara Desert expanded (Kuper & Kröpelin, 2006). By extension, changes in the ITCZ's location also impacted the Nile, increasing water flow and becoming more attractive for herding peoples fleeing Saharan desiccation.[/b][/QUOTE] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/oa.3223 [/QB][/QUOTE]
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