posted
Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans? (please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)
example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?
How do we know the temehu were African?
the questioner Member # 22195
posted
im guessing no one has a answer for this?
Doug M Member # 7650
posted
Here is an old thread where we discussed it previously....
there is alot of assumption on that thread. Everybody on there are assuming the Tamahu are Africans or live on the African continent.
Im asking how do we know they were African? were their any depictions on the walls of Egypt that show the Tamahu giving tribute to the pharaoh in African commodities? ex (ivory, leopard skins, lion skin, crocodiles, etc etc)
North Africa in ancient times was alot more African than it is today.
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans? (please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)
example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?
How do we know the temehu were African?
Here is another old thread that could answer your question:
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans? (please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)
example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?
How do we know the temehu were African?
Here is another old thread that could answer your question:
Im asking how do we know they were African? were their any depictions on the walls of Egypt that show the Tamahu giving tribute to the pharaoh in African commodities? ex (ivory, leopard skins, lion skin, crocodiles, etc etc)
North Africa was a lot more African in ancient times
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
Considering for example the inflow of Asiatics during the intermediate period, I'd go on a limb to say even in ancient times they were present in north Africa. The way north Africa looks today is probably in continuity with a trend that happened in ancient times.
the questioner Member # 22195
posted
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Considering for example the inflow of Asiatics during the intermediate period, I'd go on a limb to say even in ancient times they were present in north Africa. The way north Africa looks today is probably in continuity with a trend that happened in ancient times.
Why did the Romans and Greeks describe them as black skinned and woolly hair.
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
Because presumably many Egyptians still had dark skin and wooly hair, regardless of how many Asiatics had moved in from the north. Also, the Delta always had an Asiatic presence of some kind though most inhabitants of Egypt were living along the valley. Some Asiatics also had dark skin and/or wooly hair too.
the questioner Member # 22195
posted
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Because presumably many Egyptians still had dark skin and wooly hair, regardless of how many Asiatics had moved in from the north. Also, the Delta always had an Asiatic presence of some kind though most inhabitants of Egypt were living along the valley. Some Asiatics also had dark skin and/or wooly hair too.
What Asiatic people had black skinned and woolly hair?
the people im discussing are the Libyans, the Moors, Garamantes, and Afers had black skin and woolly hair.
North Africa had crocodiles, leopards, elephants, gazelles etc etc. why are these animals never shown or mention with the tamahu?
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
If Asiatics have had a history of altering the phenotype of Egypt I don't see how they couldn't do the same for other territories. I wouldn't say that I could argue there were entire groups of Asiatics that were of one dark skinned and wooly haired appearance in the area, just that darker skin and wooly hair were among the phenotypes incoming Asiatics carried.
Syrian mercenary with his Egyptian wife and child
Semitic captive
Bedouin
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: [QUOTE]
North Africa had crocodiles, leopards, elephants, gazelles etc etc. why are these animals never shown or mention with the tamahu?
If the Temehu/Tamahu were not occupying the Nile or some other stable water source as the desert intensified that's understandable. Many of those types of animals as land became more arid would probably do what humans and other creatures of the time were doing by gathering moving their habitation along the available water sources.
the questioner Member # 22195
posted
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: [QUOTE]
North Africa had crocodiles, leopards, elephants, gazelles etc etc. why are these animals never shown or mention with the tamahu?
If the Temehu/Tamahu were not occupying the Nile or some other stable water source as the desert intensified that's understandable. Many of those types of animals as land became more arid would probably do what humans and other creatures of the time were doing by gathering moving their habitation along the available water sources.
Herodotus and Strabo described the north Africans as wearing leopard and lion skin. Why are the Tamahu not depicted wearing leopard or lion skin
please Don't be gullible, so far the Egyptologist have not supported the Libyan/Tamahu connection
for they would have the answers to the above questions
Oshun Member # 19740
posted
I don't know what to make of the Temehu or Libu yet. I'm just saying that North Africa became a desert so it'd be understandable if the changes to the land reduced how available these animals were for less powerful ethnic groups. Egyptians and Sudanese lived near stable water sources for these animals to gather into dynastic times. I don't know if the same could be said for other peoples. I don't know where the Temehu lived throughout Egyptian history to say but I figure to reserve judgement to their identities until then.
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by the questioner:
please Don't be gullible, so far the Egyptologist have not supported the Libyan/Tamahu connection
Show us any writing by an Egyptologist of the past 20 years not supporting a Libyan/Tamahu connection
Kom el-Hisn (ca. 2500-1900 BC): An Ancient Settlement in the Nile Delta edited by Anthony J. Cagle, Richard W. Redding, Robert J. Wenke 2016
About the Author Robert J. Wenke is a research associate at the Kelsey Museum of Classical Archaeology, the University of Michigan (Ann Arbor), having served as a member of the Anthropology faculty at the University of Washington (Seattle) between 1976 and 2003. He is coauthor (with Deborah I. Olszewski) of Patterns in Prehistory: Humankind's First Three Million Years, now in its 5th edition (Oxford, 2006) and author of The Ancient Egyptian State: The Origins of Egyptian Culture (c. 8000-2000 BC) (Cambridge, 2009). Richard Redding is a research scientist at the Kelsey Museum, University of Michigan, as well as a principle investigator in Archaeological Projects in North Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. He is also the Chief Research Officer (CRO) of the Ancient Egyptian Research Associates (AERA). Anthony J. Cagle is an adjunct professor in the School of Public Health, University of Washington, Seattle WA. He received his PhD from Department of Anthropology, University of Washington, Seattle on "The Spatial Structure of Kom el-Hisn: An Old Kingdom town in the Western Nile Delta, Egypt."
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans? (please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)
example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?
The Medinet Habu Records of the Foreign Wars of Ramesses III By Donald Bruce Redford Brill Publications 2017
Donald Bruce Redford (born September 2, 1934) is a Canadian Egyptologist and archaeologist, currently Professor of Classics and Ancient Mediterranean Studies at Pennsylvania State University. He is married to Susan Redford, who is also an Egyptologist currently teaching classes at the university. Professor Redford has directed a number of important excavations in Egypt, notably at Karnak and Mendes. ___________________________________
Redford is the editor of The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt and the above book is from the scholarly publisher Brill
Temehu are mentioned 21 times in the book and also in quotes of Egyptian texts
p 150
the questioner Member # 22195
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans? (please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)
example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?
The Medinet Habu Records of the Foreign Wars of Ramesses III By Donald Bruce Redford Brill Publications 2017
Donald Bruce Redford (born September 2, 1934) is a Canadian Egyptologist and archaeologist, currently Professor of Classics and Ancient Mediterranean Studies at Pennsylvania State University. He is married to Susan Redford, who is also an Egyptologist currently teaching classes at the university. Professor Redford has directed a number of important excavations in Egypt, notably at Karnak and Mendes. ___________________________________
Redford is the editor of The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt and the above book is from the scholarly publisher Brill
Temehu are mentioned 21 times in the book and also in quotes of Egyptian texts
p 150
"Example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?"
so far none of your sources has proven that African animals were part of the tamahu tribute
So I ask again, how do we know they were African>
the questioner Member # 22195
posted
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: I don't know what to make of the Temehu or Libu yet. I'm just saying that North Africa became a desert so it'd be understandable if the changes to the land reduced how available these animals were for less powerful ethnic groups. Egyptians and Sudanese lived near stable water sources for these animals to gather into dynastic times. I don't know if the same could be said for other peoples. I don't know where the Temehu lived throughout Egyptian history to say but I figure to reserve judgement to their identities until then.
According to the Greeks and Romans, north Africa was filled with African animals.
There was enough water to support elephants
so why was ivory not part of their tribute?
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans? (please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)
example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?
How do we know the temehu were African?
Do you think any Libyans are depicted in ancient Egyptian art?
the questioner Member # 22195
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans? (please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)
example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?
How do we know the temehu were African?
Do you think any Libyans are depicted in ancient Egyptian art?
Some of the so called "Nubians" may actually be Libyans
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans? (please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)
example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?
How do we know the temehu were African?
Do you think any Libyans are depicted in ancient Egyptian art?
Some of the so called "Nubians" may actually be Libyans
IN some cases the identities can be confirmed in hieroglyphs that accompany the art
the questioner Member # 22195
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans? (please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)
example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?
How do we know the temehu were African?
Do you think any Libyans are depicted in ancient Egyptian art?
Some of the so called "Nubians" may actually be Libyans
IN some cases the identities can be confirmed in hieroglyphs that accompany the art
They maybe erroneously calling them all Nubian/Sudanese based off nothing but skin color