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T O P I C     R E V I E W
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans?
(please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)

example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?

How do we know the temehu were African?
 
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
im guessing no one has a answer for this?
 
Doug M
Member # 7650
 - posted
Here is an old thread where we discussed it previously....

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001892;p=2
 
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doug M:
Here is an old thread where we discussed it previously....

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001892;p=2

there is alot of assumption on that thread. Everybody on there are assuming the Tamahu are Africans or live on the African continent.

Im asking how do we know they were African? were their any depictions on the walls of Egypt that show the Tamahu giving tribute to the pharaoh in African commodities? ex (ivory, leopard skins, lion skin, crocodiles, etc etc)

North Africa in ancient times was alot more African than it is today.
 
Djehuti
Member # 6698
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans?
(please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)

example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?

How do we know the temehu were African?

Here is another old thread that could answer your question:

Delta: Tjehenu or Romitu?
 
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans?
(please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)

example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?

How do we know the temehu were African?

Here is another old thread that could answer your question:

Delta: Tjehenu or Romitu?

^^^ this thread did not answer my question

Im asking how do we know they were African? were their any depictions on the walls of Egypt that show the Tamahu giving tribute to the pharaoh in African commodities? ex (ivory, leopard skins, lion skin, crocodiles, etc etc)

North Africa was a lot more African in ancient times
 
Oshun
Member # 19740
 - posted
Considering for example the inflow of Asiatics during the intermediate period, I'd go on a limb to say even in ancient times they were present in north Africa. The way north Africa looks today is probably in continuity with a trend that happened in ancient times.
 
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
Considering for example the inflow of Asiatics during the intermediate period, I'd go on a limb to say even in ancient times they were present in north Africa. The way north Africa looks today is probably in continuity with a trend that happened in ancient times.

Why did the Romans and Greeks describe them as black skinned and woolly hair.
 
Oshun
Member # 19740
 - posted
Because presumably many Egyptians still had dark skin and wooly hair, regardless of how many Asiatics had moved in from the north. Also, the Delta always had an Asiatic presence of some kind though most inhabitants of Egypt were living along the valley. Some Asiatics also had dark skin and/or wooly hair too.
 
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
Because presumably many Egyptians still had dark skin and wooly hair, regardless of how many Asiatics had moved in from the north. Also, the Delta always had an Asiatic presence of some kind though most inhabitants of Egypt were living along the valley. Some Asiatics also had dark skin and/or wooly hair too.

What Asiatic people had black skinned and woolly hair?

the people im discussing are the Libyans,
the Moors, Garamantes, and Afers had black skin and woolly hair.

North Africa had crocodiles, leopards, elephants, gazelles etc etc. why are these animals never shown or mention with the tamahu?
 
Oshun
Member # 19740
 - posted
If Asiatics have had a history of altering the phenotype of Egypt I don't see how they couldn't do the same for other territories. I wouldn't say that I could argue there were entire groups of Asiatics that were of one dark skinned and wooly haired appearance in the area, just that darker skin and wooly hair were among the phenotypes incoming Asiatics carried.

 -

Syrian mercenary with his Egyptian wife and child


 -

Semitic captive


 -


Bedouin
 
Oshun
Member # 19740
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
[QUOTE]

North Africa had crocodiles, leopards, elephants, gazelles etc etc. why are these animals never shown or mention with the tamahu?

If the Temehu/Tamahu were not occupying the Nile or some other stable water source as the desert intensified that's understandable. Many of those types of animals as land became more arid would probably do what humans and other creatures of the time were doing by gathering moving their habitation along the available water sources.
 
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
[QUOTE]

North Africa had crocodiles, leopards, elephants, gazelles etc etc. why are these animals never shown or mention with the tamahu?

If the Temehu/Tamahu were not occupying the Nile or some other stable water source as the desert intensified that's understandable. Many of those types of animals as land became more arid would probably do what humans and other creatures of the time were doing by gathering moving their habitation along the available water sources.
Herodotus and Strabo described the north Africans as wearing leopard and lion skin. Why are the Tamahu not depicted wearing leopard or lion skin

please
Don't be gullible, so far the Egyptologist have not supported the Libyan/Tamahu connection

for they would have the answers to the above questions
 
Oshun
Member # 19740
 - posted
I don't know what to make of the Temehu or Libu yet. I'm just saying that North Africa became a desert so it'd be understandable if the changes to the land reduced how available these animals were for less powerful ethnic groups. Egyptians and Sudanese lived near stable water sources for these animals to gather into dynastic times. I don't know if the same could be said for other peoples. I don't know where the Temehu lived throughout Egyptian history to say but I figure to reserve judgement to their identities until then.
 
the lioness,
Member # 17353
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


please
Don't be gullible, so far the Egyptologist have not supported the Libyan/Tamahu connection


Show us any writing by an Egyptologist of the past 20 years not supporting a Libyan/Tamahu connection

 -

Kom el-Hisn (ca. 2500-1900 BC): An Ancient Settlement in the Nile Delta
edited by Anthony J. Cagle, Richard W. Redding, Robert J. Wenke
2016

About the Author
Robert J. Wenke is a research associate at the Kelsey Museum of Classical Archaeology, the University of Michigan (Ann Arbor), having served as a member of the Anthropology faculty at the University of Washington (Seattle) between 1976 and 2003. He is coauthor (with Deborah I. Olszewski) of Patterns in Prehistory: Humankind's First Three Million Years, now in its 5th edition (Oxford, 2006) and author of The Ancient Egyptian State: The Origins of Egyptian Culture (c. 8000-2000 BC) (Cambridge, 2009). Richard Redding is a research scientist at the Kelsey Museum, University of Michigan, as well as a principle investigator in Archaeological Projects in North Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. He is also the Chief Research Officer (CRO) of the Ancient Egyptian Research Associates (AERA). Anthony J. Cagle is an adjunct professor in the School of Public Health, University of Washington, Seattle WA. He received his PhD from Department of Anthropology, University of Washington, Seattle on "The Spatial Structure of Kom el-Hisn: An Old Kingdom town in the Western Nile Delta, Egypt."
 
the lioness,
Member # 17353
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans?
(please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)

example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?

How do we know the temehu were African?

This is one of the best books on the subject

https://books.google.com/books?id=uSk_DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA53&dq=temehu+meshwesh&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFtcmJ_MLYAhWhQ98KHSBaDIUQ6AEIGjAB#v=onepage&q=temehu%20&f=false


The Medinet Habu Records of the Foreign Wars of Ramesses III
By Donald Bruce Redford
Brill Publications 2017

Donald Bruce Redford (born September 2, 1934) is a Canadian Egyptologist and archaeologist, currently Professor of Classics and Ancient Mediterranean Studies at Pennsylvania State University. He is married to Susan Redford, who is also an Egyptologist currently teaching classes at the university. Professor Redford has directed a number of important excavations in Egypt, notably at Karnak and Mendes.
___________________________________

Redford is the editor of The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt and the above book is from the scholarly publisher Brill

Temehu are mentioned 21 times in the book and also in quotes of Egyptian texts

p 150
 -
 -
 
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans?
(please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)

example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?

How do we know the temehu were African?

This is one of the best books on the subject

https://books.google.com/books?id=uSk_DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA53&dq=temehu+meshwesh&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFtcmJ_MLYAhWhQ98KHSBaDIUQ6AEIGjAB#v=onepage&q=temehu%20&f=false


The Medinet Habu Records of the Foreign Wars of Ramesses III
By Donald Bruce Redford
Brill Publications 2017

Donald Bruce Redford (born September 2, 1934) is a Canadian Egyptologist and archaeologist, currently Professor of Classics and Ancient Mediterranean Studies at Pennsylvania State University. He is married to Susan Redford, who is also an Egyptologist currently teaching classes at the university. Professor Redford has directed a number of important excavations in Egypt, notably at Karnak and Mendes.
___________________________________

Redford is the editor of The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt and the above book is from the scholarly publisher Brill

Temehu are mentioned 21 times in the book and also in quotes of Egyptian texts

p 150
 -
 -

"Example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?"

so far none of your sources has proven that African animals were part of the tamahu tribute

So I ask again, how do we know they were African>
 
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
I don't know what to make of the Temehu or Libu yet. I'm just saying that North Africa became a desert so it'd be understandable if the changes to the land reduced how available these animals were for less powerful ethnic groups. Egyptians and Sudanese lived near stable water sources for these animals to gather into dynastic times. I don't know if the same could be said for other peoples. I don't know where the Temehu lived throughout Egyptian history to say but I figure to reserve judgement to their identities until then.

According to the Greeks and Romans, north Africa was filled with African animals.

There was enough water to support elephants

so why was ivory not part of their tribute?
 
the lioness,
Member # 17353
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans?
(please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)

example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?

How do we know the temehu were African?

Do you think any Libyans are depicted in ancient Egyptian art?
 
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans?
(please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)

example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?

How do we know the temehu were African?

Do you think any Libyans are depicted in ancient Egyptian art?
Some of the so called "Nubians" may actually be Libyans
 
the lioness,
Member # 17353
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans?
(please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)

example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?

How do we know the temehu were African?

Do you think any Libyans are depicted in ancient Egyptian art?
Some of the so called "Nubians" may actually be Libyans
IN some cases the identities can be confirmed in hieroglyphs that accompany the art
 
the questioner
Member # 22195
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
Does anyone have any primary sources from ancient Egyptian texts that support the temehu as being Libyans/north africans?
(please i don't want any regurgitation from Egyptologist)

example: was there ever any mention of African animals among the Temehu?

How do we know the temehu were African?

Do you think any Libyans are depicted in ancient Egyptian art?
Some of the so called "Nubians" may actually be Libyans
IN some cases the identities can be confirmed in hieroglyphs that accompany the art
They maybe erroneously calling them all Nubian/Sudanese based off nothing but skin color
 



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