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So my readings thus far have suggested the earliest pot burials are from "Eurasia" and date as far back as the 6th to 7th millennium . These burials can also be found in Egypt yes, that includes Upper Egypt into predynastic times. Wouldn't something like that suggest that Upper Egypt was already being influenced by the Levant before the start of the dynastic period yes or no? And if not, why?
Tyrannohotep Member # 3735
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Pot/jar burials aren't necessarily a development exclusive to Eurasian cultures though:
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Even if not exclusive to the geographical area, earliest evidence is traced there. These burials may demonstrate that predynastic Egyptians in upper Egypt had a relationship that went deeper than trade. It could imply a shared belief system between parts of upper Egypt and the Levant. Your source mentions southern African usage of the concept by the Iron Age but Eurasian migrations into East Africa beyond the Sahara were well underway by then. What would suggest that this idea arrived independently, especially in Sudan or Egypt?
Oshun Member # 19740
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quote: While there is general agreement regarding the broad geographic attestation of this mode of burial in ancient Egypt (the present study has identified pot burials at 46 sites; see Figure 1), scholars are divided regarding its chronological continuity. Some limit the practice to the Predynastic to Old Kingdom periods (Garstang 1904; Brunton 1927) From Naqada IIC on (following the sequence as outlined in Hendrickx 2006), burials with Upper Egyptian characteristics began to appear in Lower Egypt at Gerza, Haraga, Abusir el-Melek, and Minshat Abu Omar. These are associated with the spread, and eventual predominance, of Upper Egyptian social practices and ideology across Egypt
Technically Abusir-el-Meleq was middle or upper Egypt. But I suppose the geographical boundary may not have always necessarily meant a cultural one. I don't have access to the the study to review the sites they cite so I cant see to the extent this practice went and to what frequency. Where it started would also be important to know because upper Egypt could've adopted the practice from Lower and Middle Egypt. Could one theorize through this that the people of Abusir-el-Meleq were assimilated into Upper Egyptian culture? They speak of this custom as though it was not native to upper Egyptians further south. Still, isn't Adaima part of Upper Egypt? The site is farther south than Abydos, which is an important site for rise of Egypt. If anyone knows where to find the study please PM or post.
the questioner Member # 22195
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Levant culture is africanized The influence came from Africa not the other way around.
Oshun Member # 19740
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The earliest I've been able to find is between the 6th and 7th millennium in "Eurasia." If it was African where are the older versions of this tradition that influenced the Levant? Also does anyone have a large version of this image? Can't read the legend at the bottom. Apparently these are the sites the study had on record for pot burials.
Oshun Member # 19740
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found a bigger version and some other graphs. I'm not sure what they mean yet but I will keep digging
Not sure if pots are being counted as coffins here...
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I wasn't saying pot burials weren't also found in South Africa, but they're found thousands of years after they're found in "Eurasia" and after Asiatics and their descendants moved through Egypt and Sudan. They are whom South Africans could've adopted the practice. Because the earliest examples are Levanite and we find these burials in Egypt, it supports a conclusion of contact between the Levant and Egypt and possibly some inflow that extended throughout the Nile.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
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quote:Originally posted by Oshun: I wasn't saying pot burials weren't also found in South Africa, but they're found thousands of years after they're found in "Eurasia" and after Asiatics and their descendants moved through Egypt and Sudan. They are whom South Africans could've adopted the practice. Because the earliest examples are Levanite and we find these burials in Egypt, it supports a conclusion of contact between the Levant and Egypt and possibly some inflow that extended throughout the Nile.
What is the archaeological evidence of this back migration?
Oshun Member # 19740
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Er.... the discovery of pot burials in predynastic Egypt, when the earliest finds of these styles of burial are found a few thousand years previously (outside of Africa)?
the questioner Member # 22195
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quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Er.... the discovery of pot burials in predynastic Egypt, when the earliest finds of these styles of burial are found a few thousand years previously (outside of Africa)?
where did the levantines get this burial practice from?
the Levant is a cross road between Asia and Africa where both cultures mixed and mingled. You will have to show somewhere else in Asia where such a practice exist. According to the ancient Asiatics such as the Hebrews, the Canaanites (Levant) were African (Hamites).
“Qafzeh 9 - 90,000 years old female Anatomically Modern Human from Qafzeh cave, Israel”
Oshun Member # 19740
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The earliest dated site I could find through my source was the kovacevo neolithic
Doug M Member # 7650
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You need DNA to "prove" that there was physical migration and contact between ancient populations. One or two similar traditions or styles of artifacts doesn't "prove" ancient immigration by itself. This is the same reason other aspects of ancient archaeology in places like the Nile and elsewhere are so debated.
Most articles referring to these "pot burials" are simply rehashing the "North African/Sub Saharan" false dichotomy of African history.....
quote: In total, 32 graves were discovered containing the skeletal remains of 69 individuals plus one symbolic burial. In addition to individual interments, multiple burials are also present, including one with eight individuals. In all cases it was possible to determine age at death with varying degrees of certainty, and in 50 cases the sex of the individual could also be determined. The number of females outnumbers males by more than 2:1. Children comprise 22% of the sample. Ages range from neonates to adults over 40 years old. From a physical anthropological viewpoint, the population sample exhibits evidence of North African and sub-Saharan admixture. They mostly enjoyed good health, with only a few individuals having suffered from mild, hard-tissue-affecting illnesses. Moreover, there were no traces of violence on the skeletons.
Note there are no references or definitions of what constitutes "North African" or "Sub Saharan" they just state it and thats that.
I find it highly doubtful that "Eurasians" mass migrated into the Upper Nile and Sahara after the last Saharan wet phase, as opposed to indigenous Africans.
Tyrannohotep Member # 3735
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This source mentions pot burials not only in Africa (sub-Sahara as well as in the Sahara) and Eurasia but also the Americas:
I think it's a real stretch to say that the Native American examples owe their inspiration to Eurasian practices. I'd say that pot/jar burials were the sort of development that could pop up in any number of unrelated cultures.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^^ Actually the practice was most common in Eastern Asia from the islands of Indonesia to the islands of Japan and continental nations in between. There are just too many sources on this but a good place to start is here.
T-rex is correct that pot burials are found in other parts of Africa both Saharan and Sub-Sahara. The largest pot-burial culture was that of the Sao Culture of Chad.
Sao Cemetery
Other pot burials are found in cultures of Niger and Mali and in the Volta river area of Ghana.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: So my readings thus far have suggested the earliest pot burials are from "Eurasia" and date as far back as the 6th to 7th millennium . These burials can also be found in Egypt yes, that includes Upper Egypt into predynastic times. Wouldn't something like that suggest that Upper Egypt was already being influenced by the Levant before the start of the dynastic period yes or no? And if not, why?
Precedence does not necessarly mean source. This is the problem with diffusionist theories. Just because pot-burial in Southwest Asia precede those of Egypt does not mean one introduced it to the other unless you can prove its introduction to the Nile Valley from Asia. For example, is there evidence showing that pottery burials in Egypt started in the Delta first and before spreading into southern Upper Egypt?? Are there aspects of the interment pots themselves that bespeak Asian origins?? By the way, are you even aware that pottery itself was invented in Africa first (the Sahara) before it was in the Middle East?!
Speaking of which, there is evidence of pot burials in the Neolithic Sudan as shown here. If you're going to postulate an introduction of the custom into Egypt why not suggest it source from their south??
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