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how do translators decide on ancient Egyptian vowels? Is it random?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: [QB] I don't get the confusion. "V" in this instance is not the phoneme [v], but stands for VOWEL. The phoneme [w] is an allophone of [m], which is common in African languages. For example: ciLuba-Bantu: ci.maamu ~ ci.maawu "mother" M-E: mw.t "mother" The ciLuba example informs us that Middle-Egyptian mw.t "mother" is not pronounced "mut", but closer to ciLuba maawu.ci > ci.maawu. The [m] in ci.maamu in the second consonant position weakens due to its location between two vowels. Thus why in ciLuba you have both forms ci.maawu and ci.maamu "mother." This is just an example and you can find dozens of such in Egyptian. And as far as the graphem <A> being a trill, this is the standard interpretation based on internal and external comparative data. If you have Loprieno's [b]ancient egyptian a linguistic introduction[/b], he discusses it there. I go with Mboli's argument that it is a nasalived uvular trill because of the internal interchange of <A> with /n/ and /r/ in Egyptian. You are going to have to sit down and study the language and the up-to-date material on it. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: [qb] @ Djhuti [IMG]http://www.hieroglyphtranslation.com/hieroglyph_alphabet/egyptian_hieroglyph_letter_w.png[/IMG] is not a /u/ sound, but a /w/ and can be seen by the fact that in intervocalic position, it's allophone is /m/. For example, mnmn "to move about, to shift" > wnwn "to move to and fro; to traverse."[/qb][/QUOTE]From what I understand the w sound is made when u is attached to another vowel, but what is the connection to the consonant m? [QUOTE][qb]The sound-law is m > w /V__V. In other words, a process of lenition occurs when /m/ is inbetween two vowels. Thus, we know the original word was VmVn-VmVn > VwVn-VwVn, where V is any (V)owel. This is one clue to know why M-E is different from Coptic.[/qb][/QUOTE]Yes v is phonetically close to w as is shown in sound shifts in Indo-European languages, but I am still confused as to where the m comes in. [QUOTE][qb]Secondly, [IMG]http://www.hieroglyphtranslation.com/hieroglyph_alphabet/egyptian_hieroglyph_letter_a.png[/IMG] is not a vowel, it is a consonant. It is the nasalized uvular trill [ʀ], which explains its interchange with both [r] and [n]. You need to learn the transliteration system of Egyptology as we transliterate [ʀ] as <A>. The <a> (lowercase) grapheme is a totally different sound. [/qb][/QUOTE]Where did you get this? r is represented by this: [IMG]http://www.hieroglyphtranslation.com/hieroglyph_alphabet/egyptian_hieroglyph_letter_r.png[/IMG] and n is represented by this: [IMG]http://www.hieroglyphtranslation.com/hieroglyph_alphabet/egyptian_hieroglyph_letter_n.png[/IMG] [/qb][/QUOTE] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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