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New (?) Irish paper on ancient Sudanese dental morphology
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by SlimJim: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by SlimJim: [qb] I was thinking they could be the Levantine-like ancestors of Egypt and Nubia because they seem to have an affinity with lower Nubians who are known to have significant "Levantine" like ancestry, they are robust so it gives leeway for morphological change where they become more gracile as they change to a soft diet possibly strengthening their affinity with lower Nubia/upper Egypt making them an even better fit for a Levantine-related population native to Egypt. They also practiced avulsion, which was practiced by Natufians, Taforalt and recently by Beja tribe nomads, I could see THIS Egyptian Al Khiday population spreading into the Maghreb and the Levant, introducing Egyptian ancestry as we see with certain E and M lineages whilst introducing these cultural practices.[/qb][/QUOTE]There's no way to know without DNA samples from Al-Khiday remains. But judging from the skeletal descriptions they are more likely to be directly ancestral to [i]some[/i] Egypto-Nubians than they are to the Natufians who were far more gracile and pedomorphic in form. Again, I'm not denying a relation but that such relation for now seems more tenuous. It's like Irish's claim of Mesolithic Nubians' direct ties to modern West Africans. As for Lower Nubians having Levantine-like genetic ancestry, I take it you are referring to the [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=010394]Christian-era Kulubnarti remains[/URL], such may very well be the result of Eurasian back-migrations that took place during dynastic times. As for tooth-avulsion, such ritual practice was also found in the [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009885;p=3#000111]Central Sahara[/URL] and also continues today among Nilotic tribes in the Kordofan region of Sudan. [QUOTE][qb]Thanks for that description of the natufians btw, I appreciate it.[/qb][/QUOTE]No problem. [QUOTE][qb] When you say early North African group with Hadza like ancestry I assume you mean Taforalt? I would have thought Natufians were more Eurasian shifted than Basal Eurasian seeing as they carry Basal Eurasian whilst carrying Hunter Gatherer ancestry which would surely shift them even more to the Eurasian side on the PCA, don't you think this would mean Basal Eurasian would sit somewhere in between the pre-historic Levantines/Iranians and Taforalt in this PCA?: [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/0rnHKQx.png[/IMG] [/qb][/QUOTE]A more recent study from either Lazaridis or Reich shows that Taforalt did not derive their Basal Eurasian from Natufians but the other way around or rather some intermediate population (Egypt?) but yes the Natufians are more Western hunter-gatherer shifted. [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/pA1R6kO.jpeg[/IMG] ^ Note not only the brown Hadza-ancestry but the silver ancestry associated with Iran but also possessed by Mota. Also note that a single 'Sub-Saharan' label fails to account for difference between Khoisan southern African types, West African/Yoruba-Ibadan types, and Hadza East African types. There are so many questions than answers, which is why I don't like to make assumptions without hard evidence. [/qb][/QUOTE]Yh i may be jumping the gun here by trying to make a close link with the natufians, I guess we'll just have to wait for aDNA to come along and clear all of this up. Yh I definitenly think some of the Levantine like ancestry in Kulubnarti nubia was due to back migration but I was actually referring to Kerma and any contemporary lower Nubian cultures who I think would have got most of their Levantine related ancestry well before the unification from a similar source as the Horn Africans/Pastoral Neolithic got it from. I had no clue that tooth avulsion was practised by central Saharans and modern Nilotes, thanks for the info. Thanks again, your replies have been really helpful. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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