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Eurasian back-migrations into Northeast Africa was a complex and multifaceted process Rickard Hammaren, Steven Goldstein, Carina M Schlebusch
Abstract :
quote: Recent studies have identified Northeast Africa as an important area for human movements during the Holocene. Eurasian populations have moved back into Northeastern Africa and contributed to the genetic composition of its people. By gathering the largest reference dataset to date of Northeast, North, and East African as well as Middle Eastern populations, we give new depth to our knowledge of Northeast African demographic history. By employing local ancestry methods, we isolated the Non-African parts of modern-day Northeast African genomes and identified the best putative source populations. Egyptians and Sudanese Copts bore most similarities to Levantine populations whilst other populations in the region generally had predominantly genetic contributions from Arabian peninsula rather than Levantine populations for their Non-African genetic component. We also date admixture events and investigated which factors influenced the date of admixture and find that major linguistic families were associated with the date of Eurasian admixture. Taken as a whole we detect complex patterns of admixture and diverse origins of Eurasian admixture in Northeast African populations of today.
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Trash, Admixture models pre-emptively debunked by Ancient DNA. It would be more informative to pull the Uni-Parental DATA from these African Samples.
Elmaestro Member # 22566
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Trash, Admixture models pre-emptively debunked by Ancient DNA. It would be more informative to pull the Uni-Parental DATA from these African Samples.
I was gonna tweet at Schlebusch... and ask why they keep pumping out the same study every 2-3 years or so... but caught myself.
beyoku Member # 14524
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro:
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Trash, Admixture models pre-emptively debunked by Ancient DNA. It would be more informative to pull the Uni-Parental DATA from these African Samples.
I was gonna tweet at Schlebusch... and ask why they keep pumping out the same study every 2-3 years or so... but caught myself.
Repetition for emphasis. You know the whole thing about repeating a lie.
BrandonP Member # 3735
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Repetition for emphasis. You know the whole thing about repeating a lie.
It does seem suspicious, almost like they have an agenda.
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If Africans moved into the Levant and Arabian Peninsula during the holocene and mesolithic, to what extent can we speak of back migrations. And by whome?
the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Geber: If Africans moved into the Levant and Arabian Peninsula during the holocene and mesolithic, to what extent can we speak of back migrations. And by whome?
It's a good question I don't see anything new in this article, these back migration articles are just on repeating themselves, a lot of guesswork and lack of samples of African aDNA
Tukuler Member # 19944
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Haven't read it yet. Trust assessments of other ones who been running with genetics/genomics on ES for a decade or more. Hopefully it has useful raw data to be analysed independently of its authors' viewpoint. Else it's just another Western (i.e. white European, particularly Swedish) effort in -> same ol static awaiting outside stimulus throughout all time Africans er umph except a tiny supposedly single band's one shot effort to leave Africa so they could 'evolve' to become ALL the Eurasians.
Look, a migration is a migration. I'm tired of this back migration talk. What about front/forward migration? And how in the world does anyone return/migrate back to a place they never were in or came from?
Agendas? Nothing nefarious about agenda. Everybody's got 'em. Whoever says they don't have an agenda (link) is a liar. Hidden agenda here? No. Schlebusch involved articles on Africa have an unabashed agenda following in the footsteps of racial anthropology, eugenics, slavery to colonialist history and ethnology right up to Baker (1974) (link). This is a Swedish study and I expect Swedish institutes to be successors of their own founding racial anthropologist Linnaeus.
Sorry I'm not falling for already Eurasian (mentality/physical) Out of Africa "Africans" versus African (mentality/ physical) Stayed in Africa Africans.
Anyone wants to can believe that except for a so-called one and only OoA event proposed between 70-45ky that except, imported as slaves, NO African
quote:populations have moved into Southwest Asia and contributed to the genetic composition of its people
but it's only
quote:Eurasian populations have moved back into Northeastern Africa and contributed to the genetic composition of its people
The ADMIXTURE @ K13 only shows a Qatari element in Sudan and Ethiopia. The former is attributed to post-Islamic front migration, the latter probably to the imported AP females of antiquity. Toubou and S Afr baNtu exemplified ancestries contributed to Gulf SW Asians with Egypt mostly having the former. Frankly? I have wavering confidence for ADMIXTURES that coverup the African contributions to the CEU genepool (link) as shown in a study focused on the Comoros.
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Sorry that's the best I could articulate at the moment. Not feeling very cerebral at present.
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Perusing the references I want to examine these
Ke Wang, et al. Ancient genomes reveal complex patterns of population movement, interaction, and replacement in sub-Saharan Africa. Science advances, 6(24):eaaz0183, June 2020.
V Fernandes, et al. Genome-wide characterization of Arabian Peninsula populations: shedding light on the history of a fundamental bridge between continents. Molecular Biology and Evolution, 36(3):575–586, January 2021.
Michael Salter-Townshend and Simon Myers. Fine-Scale Inference of Ancestry Segments Without Prior Knowledge of Admixing Groups. Genetics, 212(3):869–889, July 2019.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ Recall how when a major autosomal ancestral component among North Africans was discovered it was at first presumed to be of Eurasian origin due to it being found among Western Eurasians until further analysis revealed it originated in North Africa first before spreading to Eurasia. We know this ancestral component as 'Ancient North African' and we've already discussed the provenance of ANA in Africa here
This is why I question just how "Eurasian" these so-called "back-migrants" were if they even existed at all.
We know that from all the archaeological evidence we have from predynastic Egypt, there was no evidence of large-scale migrations but rather prehistoric trade networks with indigenous Africans of Lower Egypt adopting agricultural domesticates.
The first evidence we have of large scale immigration of Asiatics dates to the Middle Kingdom via Pre-Hyksos peoples to the Hyksos and later peoples.
I could say a lot more, but i dont want to be a broken record and beat a dead horse.
Isn't this what I said about aterians being the best candidates for "basal eurasians" or at least closely related to it ? I don't know why elmaestro totally disagreed with this possibility.
I could say a lot more, but i dont want to be a broken record and beat a dead horse.
Isn't this what I said about aterians being the best candidates for "basal eurasians" or at least closely related to it ? I don't know why elmaestro totally disagreed with this possibility.
I could say a lot more, but i dont want to be a broken record and beat a dead horse.
Isn't this what I said about aterians being the best candidates for "basal eurasians" or at least closely related to it ? I don't know why elmaestro totally disagreed with this possibility.
Aterian goes back 150kya. Its probably too hold.
where have you seen this ? The estimates I've seen give 110k - 40k bp
and in July on a zoom video panel on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fvNIsfsHw description: Charles listens as professors and scientists Razib Khan, Tade Souaiaia, and Wilfred Reilly discuss race. Is it real? If not, why are so many people consumed by it. If it is real, how important is it and should it be a priority, culturally, politically, and medically.
and in July on a zoom video panel on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fvNIsfsHw description: Charles listens as professors and scientists Razib Khan, Tade Souaiaia, and Wilfred Reilly discuss race. Is it real? If not, why are so many people consumed by it. If it is real, how important is it and should it be a priority, culturally, politically, and medically.
Why is Razib Khan so fidgety, he demeanor is weird and kind of disrespectful. He is also very unprofessional.
I like what Tade had to say on African American's and genetic test and the over representation of Nigerians genetic data in ancestry tests, and how they found a historian to rewrite history based on these Genetic samples, when most of the slaves came to the North America through the Upper Guinea Sene Gambia area.
Also people move and walk, migrations are on going .
I could say a lot more, but i dont want to be a broken record and beat a dead horse.
Isn't this what I said about aterians being the best candidates for "basal eurasians" or at least closely related to it ? I don't know why elmaestro totally disagreed with this possibility.
Aterian goes back 150kya. Its probably too hold.
where have you seen this ? The estimates I've seen give 110k - 40k bp
You're using Aterians as a cache-all group.
Razib isn't saying Aterians are BE neither.
He's simply weary of what people have been positing for years now about deep structure among populations within Africa.
You're simply repeating the issues that the man mentioned in the video. You're over simplifying things to make sense of it in your current understanding of human population history and genetics.
Aterians in particular likely had archaic admixture which would have been detected via neanderthal-like segments or whatever in various BE-Admixed populations. And they were very old.
Not only that. Like I mentioned before, based on Archaeology they should have more overlap with west Africans, but ANA (Not Taforalt) and the like (BE) is mostly found in East Africans.
Antalas Member # 23506
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The thing is you speak as if there were thousands of different people/industries in North africa at that time period so who do you think might be the best candidate ? Because literally all the papers I've read go in the direction of aterian being the closest thing to basal eurasian.
quote:The makers of these assemblages can therefore be seen as (1) a group of Homo sapiens predating and/or contemporary to the out-of-Africa exodus of the species, and (2) geographically one of the (if not the) closest from the main gate to Eurasia at the northeastern corner of the African continent. Although Moroccan specimens have been discovered far away from this area, they may provide us with one of the best proxies of the African groups that expanded into Eurasia.
like I said if it wasn't them then clearly a closely related population
the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa Bey: Why is Razib Khan so fidgety, he demeanor is weird and kind of disrespectful. He is also very unprofessional.
I didn't watch this one yet, just the Garfield
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted potentially more than one "basal Eurasian"
Tukuler Member # 19944
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Any link or handshake involving terminal Maghrebi Aterians and nascent Maghrebi U6?
BTW Khan came under Spencer Wells' tutelage a while back. https://insitome.libsyn.com/ That may explain some his current "hostage" leanings leading away from some his former positions.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ So that explains a lot. By the way, how could I forget about so-called 'Basal Eurasian' which folks like Wells and Khan is admitting that it may very well be of African origin as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are other autosomal signals of African ancestry in ancient Southwest Asia since haplogroups suggests so.
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