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Ancient African Queens: New Perspectives on Black History
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [qb] So now you claim to speak for most Egyptologists? The Oxford dictionary of Ancient Egypt is current Egyptology? Why are you so offended and desiring to act as a spokesman for these people? I am not disparaging Ms Ashby, the point is that "Nubiology" as a course of study was defined by Europeans, not Africans. And if Africans are going to discuss African history correctly then it requires discarding outdated and obsolete baggage. If "Nubia" just means area between Upper Egypt and Lower Sudan as a geographic reference then just say that. And I am not saying that the term has no absolute value as there are absolutely modern populations who use the term. However, it using it as an absolute historical reference going back thousands of years is the problem and this isn't the first time I have said it. My way of looking at it is that Egyptology has no problem promoting "Nubian" scholarship as "African" history, while the Dynasic Era as "Near Eastern". This is how these two courses of study are often categorized in academia. That has nothing to do with Ms Ashby or any other African scholar.[/qb][/QUOTE]No, I don't speak for Egyptology but I do tend to give individuals the benefit of the doubt. It's as simple as that. And I am not so hung up on the racist history of Egyptology that I see "negrophobia" in an Egyptologists' writings when there isn't any. [QUOTE][qb]It is not a shame it is a fact of European scholarship and the origin of European anthropology to begin with. I find it odd how you all of a sudden act like most anthropology over 100 years ago wasn't explicitly racist. This isn't an exception, it was the rule. And I don't see why you are now coming out to defend this institution when it has never ever openly, publicly or blatantly supported the African identity of the ancient Dynastic Nile Valley ever. They stole artifacts from Africa and now have them in European museums and claim those artifacts and cultures that created them weren't African. But somehow Africans calling them out on that are the "bad guys"? Man please. I personally will always be against anybody who implies or claims that "Nubia" is the beginning of African history or the only African part of the ancient Nile, no matter who they are or what they look like.[/qb][/QUOTE]Again I'm not defending the institution. I'm defending the individuals in it including many people of African descent who are trying to right the wrongs of that institution. You are just arguing for no apparent reason. You seem to be confusing the fact that there was a cultural distinction between Kmt and Nhsi as some sort of racial distinction when we know that among the Egyptians closest relatives were Nubians! So your complaints are null and void! [QUOTE][qb]No, you decided to object to what I wrote because for some reason you are on a mission to defend the usage of the term "Nubia" for some odd reason. African braids are African braids. I made that clear and now you are trying to reword and redefine what that means when the New Kingdom braids are not that much different than the braids depicted in the Old and Middle Kingdom. To suggest that this is simply an "import" from "Nubia" is missing the point that braided hairstyles were always worn in Africa and the Nile Africa was part of that tradition from the beginning. And you will almost never find any Egyptology work that associates the hairstyles of the dynastic Era with Africa, outside the "Nubian wig". That is the point of why I reject the way this idea of "Nubia" is used and I made this clear but for some reason you are acting like you don't see this or want to defend this nonsense. If you have some evidence or sources to the contrary please feel free to post them but otherwise I stand by what I said.[/qb][/QUOTE]Dude, nobody is arguing that Egyptians have always worn African braid styles because they themselves ARE African!! The issue is that they DID ADOPT a [b]specific[/b] style of hair from Nubians during the New Kingdom, which by the way wasn't braided at all but seemed to be twisted or curled like the Afar hairstyle below... [IMG]https://external-preview.redd.it/dbcE8uk1ikTxvetoPz03rfSuuAmfIMHdOFThqt4rWk0.jpg?auto=webp&s=e1f042dd7544b37d79e5098aaeaa254177800d11[/IMG] [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bnt1Li3CcAEiTye.jpg[/IMG] ..except done in layers and trimmed to give bird wings shape hence the other name for the style is 'lappet wings'. This is a FACT of history not just 'Egyptology' which is why even Egyptian texts they labled such a hairstyle 'Nehesi'. It was first introduced to the royal court by Nubian elites who were adopted into the royal household, after which Egyptian royals adopted for themselves and popularized it. I don't see how one African group adopting the style of another African group somehow takes away from the African identity. I already gave you the example of Koreans adopting from Chinese. Seriously Doug you are starting to sound unstable. [QUOTE][qb]On a side note, just like I dislike the concept of "Nubia", I also dislike the concept of "Near East" as well, because no ancient culture ever identified with it or saw themselves as part of it. And it is a relative geopolitical term that only has meaning in the context of the British in the 1800s, specifically in relation to the Ottoman Empire. Other than that it has no relevance to the ancient history the Mediterranean region, Levantine region, Tigris and Euprhates region, Persian gulf region or Nile Valley region.[/qb][/QUOTE]The difference between 'Near East' and 'Nubia' is that the former geographic term is vague whereas the latter specific. 'Nubia' refers to the region south of Egypt from the 1st cataract at Aswan to the 6th cataract just north of modern Khartoum. Likewise 'Macedonia' in ancient times was demarcated by the Olympus Massif that separated Greece to its south, the Pindus Mountains that separated Epirus to its west, the Nestos River that separated Thrace to its east, and some mountains separate Dardania to its north (although the northern area was once Paeonia which was annexed). Nubia was the Roman version of the Egyptian term Ta Nehesi, so NO the word is not some Eurocentric distortion but actually a variant of a geographic term the native African Egyptians used! If you truly have a problem with it, then take it up with the Egyptians! [b]LOL[/b] [QUOTE][qb]And honestly, beyond all of that, the other reason I reject this "nubian wig" nonsense is partly because I believe it was an evolution in artistic canon. Older depictions of hair followed a certain canon but likely depicted similar styles to what we see in New Kingdom art. But during the New Kingdom the artistic canon changed and thus the way they depicted hair changed. And as a result they put more detail into the hair allowing it to have a more natural look and more elaborate forms. Meaning, such hairstyles were likely already present to some degree but the canon of prior eras didn't depict such styles as often or elaborately as the later eras.[/qb][/QUOTE]Of course it's an evolution of style. An integral part of fashion change is [i]adoption[/i] of foreign styles. As I just explained above. Dude, give it up! You are rants are looking irrational! [/QB][/QUOTE]
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