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The genetic history of the Southern Arc: , Natufians etc, Lazaridis 2022
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] To Doug, I don't know what you're talking about. Yes we know Kushites and Egyptians were present in Lachish as military aid and I've posted reliefs of this. My point is that the Lachish people themselves were not African based on nonmetric evidence. I never said the Lachish population per say directly descends from north Mesopotamians since we don't have actual DNA samples from them [i]yet[/i], but Israelite tradition itself says their ancestors via Abraham come from north Mesopotamia.[/qb][/QUOTE]Can you quote where I said the Hebrews were Africans? I said "African looking", meaning not straight haired but kinky haired and even sometimes having locs (which you yourself posted). The point was the people in the region were diverse in phenotype, including features similar to Africans. Somehow you are desperate to twist that into something I didn't say in order to keep some kind of back and forth going. I know what I said and you haven't disproven that the Hebrews of Lachish are depicted similarly to the Kushites, the only difference being one has beards and the other does not. Please if you are going to insist on making up stuff I didn't say then don't bother replying to me. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] Look, you seem to have an issue with this idea of north Mesopotamian ancestry. Is it because you think it conflicts with their physical appearance? Do you even know how ancient north Mesopotamians looked like? [/qb][/QUOTE]I don't have an issue with Northern Mesopotamia. Again, for the 15th time, the phenotype of those Hebrews of Lachish does not look like a Northern Mesopotamian. So ultimately the issue becomes getting some DNA from those populations depicted on those reliefs to see where they fall. My point was that there was not only a diversity of phenotypes but also a diversity of DNA lineages. So to sit here and go on and on and on about one subset of lineages out of all lineages present when most of the data isn't available is silly was my point. And again, there is no discussion of Phoenicians who are a population that was much more dominant and much larger and influential in the ancient Levant and who also had connections with Africa. The history of the Levant and Hebrews is about more than just Northern Mesopotamia and as I keep saying a lot of that Northern Mesopotamian ancestry could have come in the post exile period as shown in the Lachish reliefs. Again don't reply unless you are going to address what I said instead of making up things I did not say. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] Here's an idea from Bronze Age Mari [IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/First_Eblaite_Empire.png/800px-First_Eblaite_Empire.png[/IMG] [IMG]https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/2/investiture-of-the-king-by-the-goddess-ishtar-from-the-palace-of-zimri-lim-mari-middle-euphrates-isin-larsa-period-c1800-bc-mesopotamian.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://potiphar.jongarvey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/heavenanuenlil.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c2/07/60/c20760dc19573aefabad6f35fcb80ae7.jpg[/IMG] [/qb][/QUOTE]And why are you posting images that are not the Lachish reiefs? I never mentioned those images you posted and you are deliberately avoiding the point that the mages below are "African looking" which is what you seem to have a problem with. I was talking the populations depicted like this from Lachish and nothing else: [IMG]https://c7.alamy.com/comp/BP5J2T/scene-from-the-lachish-relief-depicting-the-defeated-inhabitants-begging-BP5J2T.jpg[/IMG] https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-scene-from-the-lachish-relief-depicting-the-defeated-inhabitants-begging-30856752.html Those depictions are "African looking" because as you yourself posted, populations in the region even with dark skin generally don't have kinky hair. Which again is proving my point. The honest answer is we don't know for sure if those populations are Hebrews and or some other population from the region. And we do know that there have been other populations depicted in ancient times in the region with similar features and hair styles. Who they were and how common such features were is an open question. But to skip over that to argue about semantics because I said "African looking" is simply pointless irrelevant grandstanding. Just like these folks depicted in an Assyrian palace are also "African looking" given the hair and features: [IMG]https://previews.agefotostock.com/previewimage/medibigoff/edcbefd58c711b3964432be0f92c9c2f/dae-11036732.jpg[/IMG] [URL=https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/details-photo/assyrian-civilization-8th-century-b-c-relief-depicting-musicians-from-the-palace-of-ashurbanipal-at-nineveh-iraq-detail-paris-musee-du-louvre/DAE-11036732]https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/details-photo/assyrian-civilization-8th-century-b-c-relief-depicting-musicians-from-the-palace-of-ashurbanipal-at-nineveh-iraq-detail-paris-muse e-du-louvre/DAE-11036732[/URL] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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