posted 11 May 2004 04:43 AM            

will let ypu know how i get on

posted 11 May 2004 04:58 AM            

I guess I don't need to tell you not to believe everything they say though lol

I hope you have a lovely time

posted 29 May 2004 02:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenzie:
7Days 7Ways is nice.

---

I'd make sure the 2 English fags who cook there are HIV (-ve)

posted 30 May 2004 01:08 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jaguar:
I'd make sure the 2 English fags who cook there are HIV (-ve)

---

Jag.... I don't know you, but you know what? You have really just shown your true colors. What a crappy thing to say! A little homophobic bub?

posted 30 May 2004 03:10 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jaguar:
I'd make sure the 2 English fags who cook there are HIV (-ve)

---

And what difference does that make to their cooking.

What a nasty comment

posted 30 May 2004 09:41 AM            

Akshar.. It is a matter of fact comment- as I didn't intend to be nasty- according to the Tourist Police and the Adaab Police in Luxor, and you know that it is true.
You all seem to tolerate FAGS who spread their filthy dirty sperms amongst young children in Luxor. Guess you ought to put fags and gigolos into the same category..

Ms Debbie.. The best thing about you, is that I can always tolerate your non-stop dumb comments

posted 30 May 2004 10:18 AM            

Do you people find it nasty and crappy and homophobic if someone is disgusted by male sluts, or sluts in general and male prostitution? sexual corruption? sexual abuse of teenagers? public sexual/kissing demonstration between males, lovers or else, in front of youth? And what about the possibility of a virus being spread that is in fact still growing among, homosexuals?

posted 30 May 2004 02:13 PM            

It's a good philosophy.

posted 30 May 2004 02:31 PM            

Living in Canada does not mean that I don't also spend many times a year in Egypt, and does not mean that I just rely on hearsay.

Yes I've been there, and did not like it.

When I see the disgusting patterns that I've mentioned before, I leave the environment where it is happening. But I will not pretend it is not happening. If someone asks about a place, I will say what I saw. And I will confirm what someone else said if I saw the same thing.

And about the Tourist police in Egypt, you will probably need to understand a little more about Egypt's corrupted side.

posted 30 May 2004 02:40 PM            

These are pretty serious allegations that are being made against these guys. If people were saying things like, they'd got food poisoning after eating there, or they knew they served poor quality food, or they'd seen mice in the kitchen or something like that, then fair enough a warning would be welcome.

But what I'm taking from these posts is that they're child abusers, they're HIV+ and they're not fussy who they pass it on to. Unless you know something you're not telling us I think it's unfair to make such serious accusations, it's not like a restaurant review where criticism goes with the territory, this is real personal stuff that is actually slanderous.

posted 30 May 2004 02:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by moll:
Monica, I think there's a pretty big difference between warning people in general terms about the kind of things they might come across, and being as specific as this.

These are pretty serious allegations that are being made against these guys. If people were saying things like, they'd got food poisoning after eating there, or they knew they served poor quality food, or they'd seen mice in the kitchen or something like that, then fair enough a warning would be welcome.

But what I'm taking from these posts is that they're child abusers, they're HIV+ and they're not fussy who they pass it on to. Unless you know something you're not telling us I think it's unfair to make such serious accusations, it's not like a restaurant review where criticism goes with the territory, this is real personal stuff that is actually slanderous.

I don't think AT ALL that everything should be positive on these boards, I just don't think individuals should be named unless there's proof to back up the accusations.

---

posted 30 May 2004 02:51 PM            

You said that you SAW something when you were in their restaurant eating dinner?
Blimey! That must have really put you off your Roast dinner and bananas and custard.
I do find that rather difficult to believe but would be very interested to know exactly what you did see.

posted 30 May 2004 02:58 PM            

And I will not get into the 'proof'.
Let me put it bluntly:

If you want to know more, check it out on your own.

posted 30 May 2004 03:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
You are certainly right, it is not fair to accuse without giving 'proof'.
I agree 100%.That was not fair.

And I will not get into the 'proof'.
Let me put it bluntly:

If you want to know more, check it out on your own.

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 30 May 2004).]

---

posted 30 May 2004 03:44 PM            

wise_woman
Member

Posts: 130
Registered: Sep 2001
posted 13 November 2002 03:00 PM I have only ate in 7days7ways on 2 occasions and I was not impressed.

Big John, one of the owners, was hitting one of his Egyptian waiters and then threatening to "have sex with bum" and "not use Tops" which is local brand of condom.

posted 30 May 2004 03:58 PM            

I agree with what Jaguar said 100% and something should be done to stop it from contaiminating Egypt. Bad enough we have homoegrown fags trying to make homosexuality a healthy lifestyle right in Egypt.

You know about the felucca parties where people go on boats and engage in their perversion. Personally I will beat anybody I see in Luxor engaging in exploitation of little children there or even homosexual activity.

Homosexuals have no place in Upper Egypt!!

posted 30 May 2004 04:25 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jaguar:
______________________________
Accusation???? I personally know the fags.

wise_woman
Member

Posts: 130
Registered: Sep 2001
posted 13 November 2002 03:00 PM I have only ate in 7days7ways on 2 occasions and I was not impressed.

Big John, one of the owners, was hitting one of his Egyptian waiters and then threatening to "have sex with bum" and "not use Tops" which is local brand of condom.

This happened twice, the second time to a different waiter who was obviously terried of him. It wasn't a joke or black humour, it was no joke to the young Egyptian waiter, or to John, or to the rest of the customers looking embarrassed in the restaurant.
I'll never go back there.
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum1/HTML/000399.html

---

posted 30 May 2004 05:57 PM            

I am incredibly disappointed in your attitude Monice I thought you were an educated 'lady' not a rabid homophobic

I hate the idea of using the Internet as prosecution, judge and jury. What happened to defense, fair play and justice

posted 30 May 2004 06:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by akshar:
Well I went to that resturant in 2000 with my daughter aged 8 and we didn't see anything like that. We thought it was a really nice place and enjoyed the food.

I am incredibly disappointed in your attitude Monice I thought you were an educated 'lady' not a rabid homophobic

I hate the idea of using the Internet as prosecution, judge and jury. What happened to defense, fair play and justice

---

posted 30 May 2004 06:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
..........No comments!

---

Why?

posted 30 May 2004 06:52 PM            

I maintain the fact that I am disgusted at the sexual abuse and the corruption, that is happening in many parts of Egypt in every way shape or form. Regardless of sexual orientation.

I am angry and sad, that it is 'mostly' allowed by the authorities.

What I have stated has been filed officially. I am in fact very active with human rights organizations as a public speaker, and I certainly do my best along with many others, that regardless of sexual orientation, the predators are punished.

When inappropriate and /or offensive actions are committed in front of me, I leave the premises, and I report to the officials.

And most of all, I do not keep quiet in front of what is immoral or illegal, because if we watch in silence, we are accomplices.

Salam!

posted 31 May 2004 01:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jaguar:
______________________________
Accusation???? I personally know the fags.

---

posted 31 May 2004 07:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by akshar:

I am incredibly disappointed in your attitude Monice I thought you were an educated 'lady' not a rabid homophobic

---

Hi Akshar,

I may have more to say on this subject with regards to my own views, but this statement caught my eye!

What does Education have to do with Homophobia? Are you saying that people who do not agree with homosexuality are uneducated? What about if a person is educated but has religious principles?

I thought that you were married to a Muslim..... does he accept homosexuality or is he "uneducated"?

I think i will remain confused until you reply insha'Allah

posted 31 May 2004 08:27 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Debbie:
Oh really? This is getting more interesting. Business partners or just friends?

---

I bet it took you hours to come up with this sheer stupid post(not surprised ) Stop making a fool out of yourself Ms Debbie. Poor Egypt... accommodating tax free Seya3.

posted 31 May 2004 09:25 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nefertiti:
Hi Akshar,

I may have more to say on this subject with regards to my own views, but this statement caught my eye!

What does Education have to do with Homophobia? Are you saying that people who do not agree with homosexuality are uneducated? What about if a person is educated but has religious principles?

I thought that you were married to a Muslim..... does he accept homosexuality or is he "uneducated"?

I think i will remain confused until you reply insha'Allah

Thanks

---

I think to show prejudice because someone is different from you is uneducated. You may disagree with their way of life and feel that it is against God. But that is between them and God. He did not appoint you as his personal aide de camp.

Also to suggest that eating at a restaurant puts you in danger of Aids or HIV is incredibly uneducated. These can only be caught by exchange of body fluids. Not eating a spag bol.

I also find this prosecution, judge and jury thing uneducated. People of education believe in fair play and justice. To damage someone’s business like that is most definitely not fair. If these people have done something against the law then by all means report it. But if nothing has happened could it be because they were innocent of the charges upon investigation.

I was so surprised that someone like Monica who supports the aims of amnesty international which strive to protect all victims should be so keen to attack someone with so much vitriol. To state that she does not believe in homosexuality is fine but to descend to the level of a fish wife in expressing it is uneducated.

posted 31 May 2004 09:41 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
I really thought you people appreciated to be warned by those that know something that maybe you don't know.

Do you people find it nasty and crappy and homophobic if someone is disgusted by male sluts, or sluts in general and male prostitution? sexual corruption? sexual abuse of teenagers? public sexual/kissing demonstration between males, lovers or else, in front of youth? And what about the possibility of a virus being spread that is in fact still growing among, homosexuals?

---

...and on your 'fish wife' and 'uneducated' and 'rabid homophobic' comments towards me, you are intitled to your views wether they are correct vis à vis others, or not.

Also, I recall taking your defense when I thought you were a 'victim' and unfairly attacked, by one of your friends here on ES several months ago.

As per Amnesty International, and other human rights organizations: exactly...I am very active, and I do believe in protecting VICTIMS in general, including those OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

As per, HIV/AIDS:

In a HIV positive person, the virus has been found to be in heavy concentration in the blood, semen and vaginal secretions.

Insignificant quantities are also found in the tears, saliva, mouth ulcers where blood oozes from, sometimes when accidently cut with teeth, urine and breast milk. Other inside organs of the body also have this virus. ..

And then read this:

wise_woman
Member

Posts: 130
Registered: Sep 2001
posted 13 November 2002 03:00 PM I have only ate in 7days7ways on 2 occasions and I was not impressed.

Big John, one of the owners, was hitting one of his Egyptian waiters and then threatening to "have sex with bum" and "not use Tops" which is local brand of condom.

This happened twice, the second time to a different waiter who was obviously terried of him. It wasn't a joke or black humour, it was no joke to the young Egyptian waiter, or to John, or to the rest of the customers looking embarrassed in the restaurant.
I'll never go back there. http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum1/HTML/000399.html

And then know this:

I despise people that abuse others regardless of their sexual orientation. Therefore I boycott their establishment. Especially when I see the abuse happening in front of my eyes.. and I will not go into details, enough has been said... if you don't believe me... it is too bad.

And in conclusion
If you believe that my comments are 'vitriolic' well you can always sue me

Definition of some of the words used on this thread:

Homophobic: fear or hatred of homosexuals.
Rabid: violent, fanatical
Vitriolic: hostile
Fishwife: coarse mannered or noisy woman, a woman who sells fish
Educated: a systematic instruction or particular kind or stage of education or development of character or mental powers
Victim: person injured or destroyed/physically or/and emotionally
Slut: promiscuous
Disgust:repugnance

posted 31 May 2004 10:28 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jaguar:
Akshar.. glad you could spell [b]Educated[/B]

---

magic of a spellchecker

posted 31 May 2004 10:30 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by akshar:
I think to show prejudice because someone is different from you is uneducated. You may disagree with their way of life and feel that it is against God. But that is between them and God. He did not appoint you as his personal aide de camp.

---

I'm sorry but homosexuality falls in to a whole new category for a Muslim. It is something that is not to be tolerated, we are not to have any sympathy for them or associate ourselves with them in anyway! It tells us in the Qu'ran that Allah destroyed a whole city of them! Is that not proof enough for a Muslim?!

I don't know how religious you are or not, but I know that the Christian and Muslim interpretations of the story of Prophet Lut are similar. What would your opinion be of the part Lut's wife played in all this? She was the one in his family that was not saved. The Bible I think tells the story that she looked back (I’m not sure of this). My view is that maybe she 'sympathised' with the Homo's, that is why she was not saved...... so which should a Muslim side with? Homosexuality which benefits society in no way or Allah their creator who has given clear proofs of how much He abhors the act?

Allahu Alam.

Out of interest don’t you condemn Child molesters? They are different from you I assume. But would that make you uneducated?

I think most Mothers would talk about Child Molesters in the same way that Monica talks about Homosexuals. Difference being that Perverts are condemned by society and homo's are not.

quote:

---

Originally posted by akshar:

I also find this prosecution, judge and jury thing uneducated. People of education believe in fair play and justice.

---

Really?

quote:

---

Originally posted by akshar:

To damage someone’s business like that is most definitely not fair. If these people have done something against the law then by all means report it. But if nothing has happened could it be because they were innocent of the charges upon investigation.

---

Well they have done something against the law haven't they? Is Homosexuality lawful in EGYPT? No I don't think so, I THINK it comes under lewd acts or something. You can not apply laws of the UK or US to Egypt, what is acceptable there may not be acceptable here.

You didn't mention how your husband or his family feel about homosexuality. What about your neighbors? I think you may find that the majority of them would react in ways more passionate than Monica.

People will be homo regardless of what people like Monica and Jaguar think, but they can keep it to themselves - especially in a majority Muslim country. They don't need to make it public knowledge - out of respect for local religion and culture.

posted 31 May 2004 12:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nefertiti:
I'm sorry but homosexuality falls in to a whole new category for a Muslim. It is something that is not to be tolerated, we are not to have any sympathy for them or associate ourselves with them in anyway! It tells us in the Qu'ran that Allah destroyed a whole city of them! Is that not proof enough for a Muslim?!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica
Big John, one of the owners, was hitting one of his Egyptian waiters and then threatening to "have sex with bum" and "not use Tops" which is local brand of condom

---

quote:

---

originally posted by Akshar
Also to suggest that eating at a restaurant puts you in danger of Aids or HIV is incredibly uneducated. These can only be caught by exchange of body fluids. Not eating a spag bol.

---

Absolutely right, HIV is only transmitted via bodily fluids. Anything else is scaremongering.

I would also like to add to this thread my own feelings. I do have gay friends, and in particular I have 2 gay friends who love Luxor almost as much as I do. However, they are in a minority in as much as they do not "sleep" around. I have seen much evidence of homosexual activity in Luxor. My first ever cruise shocked me. 2 couples were frequent cruisers, one of the men was a vicar. His friend was, um..... shall we say bisexual..... his wife spent her free time lazing on the sundeck of the boat, while he spent his time in the cabin with the "help", and his friend, the vicar never even batted an eyelid.
I have no problems with any homosexual of either sex, but I have no wish to have their sexual activites rammed down my throat.
But I do think the major problem in Luxor is the fact that most of these men can find "satisfaction" very easily, and its not just felucca men. Luxor is well known as a place where willing young men can be bought easily.
I would be interested to hear from the muslims here exactly how they view their fellow muslims selling themselves in this way.

posted 31 May 2004 12:16 PM            

The 'Muslims' who are offering their services fall into the same category as Homosexuals who do it for pleasure. Islam and "some Muslims" condemn them.

Like i said some people will be homosexual no matter what we say and like you said we don't need it rammed down our throats. Same goes for heterosexuals who kiss and "stuff" in public. Unecessary. Keep it at home.

posted 31 May 2004 12:18 PM            

Shareen, it is a disgrace. Sad, frustrating, devastating. Regardless of religion, prostitution in all its forms, is simply nauseating. And if I could scream it louder than a fishwife would do when selling fish...I would.

For your information, there is a huge campaign going on to 'clean up' Luxor.

Have a nice day.

posted 31 May 2004 12:42 PM            

Idris's short story "The Cheapest Nights" is a powerful allegory of Egypt's situation, and of the way in which Egypt, lacking the moral and financial resources to overcome its colonial past, simply falls back into old patterns of action that perpetuate its misery. 'Abdel Karim', who represents Egypt, is overburdened with children, irritated with his own, and frustrated by the teeming numbers of them in his village. The night is cold, and he is unable to sleep because of the strong tea he has drunk:

...what was he to do with himself? Stay up? But where? Doing what? Join boys playing hide and seek? Hang around for little girls to gather round and snigger? Where could he go with his pockets picked clean? Yusuf Idris (tr.Wadida Wassef), The Cheapest Nights (London: Heinemann).

posted 31 May 2004 04:15 PM            

Monica... I am happy to hear there is a clean up campaign in Luxor, but to be honest I doubt it will ever happen. Things like this have a habit of disappearing "underground". I will have to try to find the book you mention.... I havent read any of Idris's books. And I think you misunderstood my comment regard the transmission of HIV, it was simply that, not a reflection of my views on the threatening of an employee. To threaten, intimidate and bully any employee, no matter where the work place is, is appalling and should be dealt with immediately.

posted 31 May 2004 04:48 PM            

The incident I referred to took place in July 2001 when we were staying at the Sheraton. I stand by every word I typed.
I know Egyptians as well as us Brits are well know for our sense of humour but this wasnt funny in any way at all.
It was shocking and awkward for us, the customers. We sat gobsmacked and waited to see if there was a punchline or if they would shake hands and laugh about it, but no, it was serious.

I personally wouldn't go and haven't been to that restaurant again.

What they do or don't do in their spare time is of no interest to me but how they treat their staff is of interest to me.

posted 01 June 2004 02:26 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jaguar:

I bet it took you hours to come up with this sheer stupid post(not surprised ) Stop making a fool out of yourself Ms Debbie. Poor Egypt... accommodating tax free Seya3.

[This message has been edited by jaguar (edited 31 May 2004).]

---

posted 01 June 2004 03:03 AM            

I firstly want to say that gay tourists that come to Egypt and corrupt young children are filth. I am equally repulsed by Gay men that come to Egypt and use money to prey on vunerable young men. It makes my blood boil and it needs to be dealt with. I also agree that if this incident did occur in 7 days 7 ways then it is a disgrace.

I do think that some of the comments here have been misconstrued. The original post was a comment on the nice food at 7days 7ways. Jaguar then came out with 'Have you checked that the two fags there are HIV negative?'
Now I am sorry, but I don't know Jaguar from Adam and comments like this indicate to me that he is a bigot. His comments appear to come from the same school of thought as 'all western women are tarts and all Arabs are terrorists and oh yes!all gays are HIV positive'.
Immediately he lost all credibility with me. If Jaguar had written an intelligent post explaining that he was aware of some unsavoury going ons, I may have been more inclined to acknowledge his comments. How did you expect us to react to that comment? Just accept it without question? You made serious allegations without backing it up at all. Ok so you posted Wise Womans comments but I am sorry that does not prove that they are HIV positive? My issue is that you have made serious allegations without backing it up with evidence. As Akshar said, it is not your place to act as judge and jury.
If the allegations of abuse ARE true however, then they deserve to be severely punished for it. But that is down to the courts to decide, not me, you or any other ES poster.

posted 01 June 2004 05:23 AM            

This is a completely false construction. The word is constructed by analogy with such words as `arachnophobia' and `claustrophobia', which are very strong or violent reacations to the things which are feared. Thus a person with `arachnophobia' does not just have an irrational fear of spiders. They have an uncontrollable physical reaction of flight, which has physiological symptoms. Most `phobias' invented by non-psychologists are really just fears and aversions. In the case of `homophobia' there are two serious errors. First, the common error of confusing `phobia' with simple fear or aversion is made in this case. But much more seriously, the Latin prefix `homo' means `same', not `homosexual'. (The Latin prefix ``homo-'' comes from the Greek ``homos'' which means the same thing.) So `homophobic' would correctly mean an uncontrollable physical fear reaction in response to the presence of people who are the same as the person in question. A correct term for the intended meaning of `homophobia' would be `aversion to homosexuals' or `anti-homosexuality', and a correct term for `homophobic' would be `anti-homosexual' or `homosexual-averse'. The fact that these are not so easy to pronounce is not a valid excuse for using a completely false word.

Recommendation: Use the word `anti-homosexual' instead.

Why we are not homophobic?

Liberals call us homophobes if we think there is something wrong with homosexuality. But "Homophobe" means fear of this disorder, thus putting us in a pathological category when the reverse is actually true - a sly liberal (and devilish) trick to twist and distort the truth to suit their nefarious purposes.
A more accurate description of a healthy person's attitude towards homosexual behavior would be a feeling of loathing or disgust for such perverse activities. Below are various Latin words denoting the proper and accurate feelings we have - hence I am coining a new word.

Let it henceforth be known that our aversion to homosexual perversion shall be known not as homophobia, but as HOMOSEXUALFOEDIA, derived from "foedus (1) -a -um [foul , filthy, horrible, disgusting]; adv. foede"

And a person who feels ill after watching "Boy Meets Boy" or "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" would be suffering from homonausea.

http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookdown.pl?disgust
Latin Dictionary and Grammar Aid
disgust
aversor (1) -ari dep. [to turn away (in shame , disgust, etc.)]; with acc., [to turn away from, avoid, shun].

deformis -e (1) [deformed , misshapen, ugly, disgusting]. Transf., [foul, shameful]. (2) [formless, shapeless]. Adv. deformiter, [in an ugly fashion].

distaedet -ere [causes boredom or disgust].

fastidiosus -a -um [squeamish , nice, dainty, fastidious]; with genit. [sick of, disgusted with, impatient of]; in act. sense, [disgusting, loathsome]. Adv. fastidiose, [fastidiously, with disgust].

fastidium -i n. [loathing , squeamishness, disgust, dislike]; hence [scorn, haughtiness, disdain].

foedus (1) -a -um [foul , filthy, horrible, disgusting]; adv. foede.

nauseo -are [to be seasick; to cause disgust , nauseate].

pertaedet -taedere -taesum est [to cause weariness or disgust]; cf. taedet.

piget -gere -guit -gitum est impers. , [it causes annoyance (or regret or shame); it disgusts]; 'piget me', with genit. [I am disgusted with].

taedium -i n. [disgust , weariness, boredom].

Concerning Aids and its transmission, one only needs to look at the statistics and note that as high as 16% of diagnosed cases of HIV have a source UNKNOWN! I think that in itself would scare the hell out of any EDUCATED person!

Laura

posted 01 June 2004 06:13 AM            

If that makes me an uneducated vitriolic rabid homophobic fishwife.....frankly I really don't give a damn!

And Debbie, I've seen you reply in a very arrogant way to the ones that attack you first by the way ( Check your first comments/attack addressed to jaguar here on this thread).

posted 01 June 2004 12:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jaguar:

I bet it took you hours to come up with this sheer stupid post(not surprised ) Stop making a fool out of yourself Ms Debbie. Poor Egypt... accommodating tax free Seya3.

[This message has been edited by jaguar (edited 31 May 2004).]

---