posted 24 June 2004 09:39 AM            

Copt is derived from the Greek rendering for an Egyptian. The Arabs, after 640 CE, used that general term to label the non-Moslems. As a result, the term Copt took on a different meaning by the 7th century.

Researchers of Ancient Egypt assumed WRONGLY that the Christians in Egypt (so-called "Copts") are the link between Ancient Egypt and our present time. On the contrary, the Christians in Egypt are NOT natives of Egypt, but a foreign minority. This situation is explained herein.

When Alexander died in 323 BCE, one of his generals, Ptolemy, son of Lagus, took charge under the nominal rulership of Alexander’s brother Philip Arrhidaeus. Upon Philip’s death, Ptolemy declared himself the ruler. His actions initiated a Ptolemaic Dynasty. Their new settlement, along the Mediterranean coast, was predominantly Greek, which was officially described as being ad Aegyptum, not in Aegypto, i.e. it was an intrusion into an alien country.
In Alexandria, Greeks formed the bulk of the population, followed in number by the Jews.

Greek became the mother tongue of the Jews in Egypt. Many Jews had been imported as soldiers, even before the arrival of the Ptolemies. For example, the Persians had established a Jewish garrison, as far south as the island of Philae, which had left behind some records in Aramaic.

When Palestine fell under the control of Ptolemy I in 301 BCE, he brought back Jewish mercenaries, who joined the already-established communities in Egypt. Unable to speak their native tongue, Jews, living in Alexandria, soon felt a need to translate their sacred books into Greek. They persuaded King Ptolemy II (285-247 BCE), to order a Greek translation of the Bible. The High Priest of Jerusalem sent 72 elders to Alexandria, six representatives from each of the twelve tribes of Israel, together with an official copy of the Pentateuch. They worked for 72 days to produce the final copy of the Pentateuch in Greek. Later, the other books of the Old Testament were also translated into Greek by others, and the whole work became known as the Septuagint, which means The Seventy. Since the Greek text is older than the Hebrew text, it was therefore adopted as the Bible of the early Church.

Ptolemy compensated his mercenary troops (Syrians, Greeks, Macedonians, Persians and Hellenized Asiatics) by giving them tracts of land among the Egyptian population in towns near the capitals of the provinces, into which Egypt was divided.

These pockets of foreign settlements are exactly where the Christian population is concentrated in present-day Egypt.

Romans & Early Christians in Egypt

When the Romans arrived in Alexandria, they gave preferred treatment to the Jews. Augustus granted self-government to the Hellenized Jews of Alexandria. This caused great consternation among the Greeks, who had lived there for a longer period of time. The Romans reinforced foreign settlement, by bringing in more foreigners. The Jewish colony in Alexandria is said to have had a population of 1 million in the 1st century CE.

Christianity arrived early in Alexandria, from Judaea and Syria. After all, Christianity is basically a Judean offshoot. The Romans encouraged and facilitated more immigration from Syria to Egypt.

Christian Rampage

In 312 CE, Christianity was made the official and only religion of the Roman Empire. A short time later, the Roman Empire split. Egypt became part of the Eastern (or Byzantine) Empire in 323 CE.

The decree that there be only one religious system (Christianity), and that anything else is untrue, is dictatorial. It allowed Christian fanatics to destroy the native Egyptian religious rights, properties, and temples.

When Theophilus was made Patriarch of Alexandria in 391 CE, he displayed tremendous zeal in destroying ancient Egyptian temples. A wave of destruction swept over the land of Egypt. Tombs were ravaged, walls of ancient monuments scraped, and statues toppled. In Alexandria, the famous statue of Serapis was burned and the Serapeum destroyed, along with its library.
When Theophilus attempted to convert a temple of Dionysus in Alexandria into a church, rioting between non-Christians and Christians ensued, the former occupying the great Serapeum. The subsequent destruction of the temple was shamelessly advertised by Christians as symbolic of a great victory. It was a folly of fanaticism in the name of orthodoxy.

The same year (391 CE) saw the beginning of legislation that aimed to outlaw ancient Egyptian rites and to close the temples. The laws helped the fanatic Christians destroy other temples.

No rational mind can accept that such destructive behavior led to "convince" people to convert to any religion (Christianity), as advertised by the fanatics, no matter how rational it (Christianity) may appear to anyone.

The fanatic early Christians went on appropriating ancient Egyptian temples. In the 4th and 5th centuries, many ancient temples on the west bank of Ta-Apet(Thebes) were converted into monastic centers.
Hatshepsut’s Commemorative Temple was converted into Deir (monastery) el Bahari.
Ptolemy III Temple was converted into Deir el Medina.
The Commemorative Temple of Ramses III was given the Christian name, “Medinat Habu”.
The Court of Amenhotep III in Luxor Temple, on the east bank of Ta-Apet(Thebes) was similarly violated.

In 415 CE under Theodosius II, Patriarch Cyril expelled the Jews of Alexandria from the city; and Hypatia, the learned and beautiful Neoplatonist, was cruelly murdered.

Christian mobs forcefully took a part of the Temple of Het-Heru(Hathor) at Dendera in the middle of the 6th century CE, and built a new church, which was constructed between the Birth House and the Coronation House, using some of the blocks from the Birth House.

Similarly, in Khmunu(Hermopolis) a Temple of Amon was occupied by Christians and had part of its interior turned into a chapel.

In addition to the violation of Ancient Egyptian temples, the fanatic Christians adopted a new script called the Coptic language — basically demotic Egyptian written in Greek characters with a few additional letters — from about 300 CE. A non-Egyptian alphabet was intended for the use of those non-Egyptians who were schooled in the Greek language. This move had the effect of re-emphasizing the cultural divide between them and the true native Egyptians.

The Greek characters are not any easier than the Egyptian demotic script, which is yet another indication that the Church emphasis was on the Greek-speaking population of Alexandria, Fayoum, and a few other colonies of foreigners.

Egyptian Demotic Script

Greek Script

There is no archaeological evidence, outside Alexandria, to substantiate the Christians’ overly exaggerated popularity claims.
Accepting Christianity is to accept the Bible, which condemns ancient Egypt and establishes the Jews as God’s "chosen people". It is totally incompatible with Egyptian history, nature, and traditions.

Christian Family Feud

The history of the political and doctrinal struggles within the Church during and after the 4th century has largely been written in terms of the disputes over the nature of God and Christ and the relationship between them. A good deal of the turbulent history of Egypt in the 4th, 5th, and 6th centuries can be understood in terms of the struggles of the successive (or, after 570 CE, co-existing) patriarchs of Alexandria to maintain their position both within their patriarchy and outside it, in relation to Constantinople.

Monophysites had, from the first, espoused a doctrine of Christ, which placed the greatest possible emphasis on his divinity, and came near to denying that he had a human nature. In 449 CE, Dioscurus, the patriarch of Alexandria, refused to accept the Byzantine Christian doctrine. He believed that Christ is totally divine, and that it is blasphemous to consider Him human. And so, when the orthodox theologians of Rome and Constantinople agreed at the Council of Chalcedon, in 451 CE, that Christ was to be worshipped "in two natures inseparably united", the Monophysite opposition contended that though Christ could be "out of two natures", he could not be in two natures. The depth of feeling involved is perhaps best conveyed in the slogan of the Monophysite bishops at Chalcedon, which said, "Throw out the Nestorians. Christ is God". As a result, in 451 CE, during the reign of the patriarch Dioscorus, the Monophysite Church in Egypt broke away from the Orthodox Church, and elected its own patriarch.

Since the Council of Chalcedon in 451 CE, each of the two Churches had its own separate patriarch and administration. These parties were distinguished by the familiar names Jacobite and Melkite or Royalist. The Jacobites were by creed Monophysites, by race mainly, though not exclusively people born in Egypt, but of foreign descent (mistakenly thought of as native Egyptians); while the Melkites were orthodox followers of Chalcedon and for the most part of Greek or European origin.

The term Melkite, as employed in Egypt, is of a Syriac origin, and there is no anachronism in using it before the Arab conquest. This is an additional piece of evidence that the early Christians were using Syriac language and names, indicating their origin to be Syria/Palestine and not Egypt.
Syrian migration to Alexandria constituted the bulk of the early Christians in Egypt. They — the Christians in Egypt — continue to maintain physical and personal traits that are very Syrian. It is easy for native Egyptians, to this date, to distinguish a Christian (so-called ‘Copt’), just based on his/her body language and features, which reflects peculiar Syrian (non-Egyptian) traits.

The Persian Interlude (616-629 CE)

The spread of Persian power throughout Syria culminated in the conquest of Jerusalem (615 CE) and Persian hostility to Christians, which thrust more Syrian Christian refugees westward to Alexandria.
The total chaos in Egypt eased the path of the Persian conquerors to Egypt in 616 CE. It took the Persians three years to control Egypt and Pentapolis.
The period of occupation was concluded by a peace treaty and Persian withdrawal in 628 CE, and the return to Byzantine rule.

Cyrus: A Taste of their Own Medicine (631-642 CE)

After the death of the Melkite Patriarch George, Cyrus was sent as Imperial Patriarch to Alexandria in 631 CE. He was given both religious and civil authority.
The double succession of pontiffs was maintained, and it was the early policy of Heraclius to bring about a reconcilement between the two Christian factions.

Cyrus first tried a compromise between the two factions (Melkites and Monophysites). The proposed compromise backfired from both stubborn groups.
Cyrus had to restore order, on behalf of his Emperor, for the Monophysites had terrorized and destroyed those who merely didn’t agree with their fanatic interpretations. Cyrus forcefully imposed the 451 Council of Chalcedon decree.

Did Cyrus prosecute the Monophysites, or did they ask for his actions by rejecting him and his authority? By extension, they had been prosecuting the land and people of Egypt (their host) for several centuries, and ironically, Cyrus, the Christian, gave them a taste of their own medicine.

Christians’ Gift to Mohammed

In 627 CE, when Mohammed, the Islam founder, consolidated his power in the Arab Peninsula, and felt himself strong enough to challenge the submission of the rulers of the world to Islam, his new religion, he caused letters to be written to several neighboring rulers, including letters to George, wrongly called the Mukaukas, governor of Alexandria and the Melkite Viceroy of Egypt (621-631); to Chosroes, King of Persia; and to Heraclius, Emperor of the Romans. All contained the same claim of allegiance to Islam and to the Arabian prophet as Vicegerent of the Most High.

The Monophysites, who never had any loyalty to their host country of Egypt, manifested such disloyalty when the Christian Viceroy of Egypt promised to consider the message, and treated Mohammed’s envoy, Hatib, with all honor. The Christian Viceroy sent back with his reply some valuable presents, which included two Christian maidens (Mary and Shirin), the mule Duldul, the ass Nafur, and a bag of money.

Mohammed, who already had nine wives, fell in love with Mary. The Christian Mary became Mohammed’s sweetheart and bore him a son. The baby died under suspicious circumstances. Mary died in 636 CE.

In December 639 CE, Amr ibn el-As set out to conquer Egypt with a few thousand men. His task was relatively simple, because of the active support of the Christian Monophysites, the so-called Copts.

After less than two years of fights and political maneuvering between the Arab invaders and the Byzantines, Cyrus went to meet the Arab commander at Babylon near Cairo, and both signed a treaty on November 8, 641, which called for the total withdrawal of Roman soldiers, imposing a tribute of two dinars a head on all able-bodied males, and a tax on all landowners. The only parties to the treaty were the Moslem Arabs and the Christians, who passed along a country that was not theirs.

History books end the glorious era of Ancient Egypt at 640 CE, when the Christians in Egypt sold it out to the Moslem Arabs.

posted 24 June 2004 10:15 AM            

One old man with long hair and a white beard ,who had been a member
of the local community of foreign Christains which had established
itself near the temple of Philae,is the oldest example and one of the
best illustrations of a case of gout;enormous whitish concretions of
urate of lime had gathered on his feet,especially round his big toe
and also at the ankle ,while chalky ,masses could still be seen
deforming his knee-caps and ankles.

page 43

Ange-Pierre Leca: The Egyptian Way of Death: Mummies and the Cult of
the Immortal
Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, 1981. Reveals the beliefs,
techniques and rituals comprising the elaborate process of
mummification. 292 pages

In addition to roman high officals,occupying the important
administrative posts in Alexzandria and in the larger towns,and to
more numerous mirrior functionannes,one must also distinguish from
the indigenous populations the Greeks,established in Egypt before the
Ptolomies,and the war veterns. often of diverse origins to whom lands
had been granted . Some of these latter,at Faiyum or Antione,may have
been Romans;others ---as for example ;at Ahnas El medinehin Upper
Egypt--originally came from Palmyra. All brought with them their own
customs ,and doubtless their own relgions,which can be
idenitfied ,even when became intergrated with the relgions of the
country,as is evident at Ahnas El Medineh;

1. E. Drioton 'Art syrien et art copte;B.S.A.C. III 1937 ,pp 29-40

page 72
Du Bourguet, Pierre M., The Art of the Copts. Art of the World
series, New York, Crown Publishers, 1971.

The truth desendants of the ancient Egyptians are the Fellahin and Sa3eadi in Upper Egypt:

However this may be,and although we may not know precisely from where
the ancient Egyptians came,we can be quite sure that the present
inhabitants of the country---at least the fellahin,and its is with
them that we are concerned---are the desendants of the people of
dyanstic times,from whom they are desended almost without a break or
intermixture ,despite the passage of fifty centuries and conquest of
the valley. The conditions of servitude and contempt in which the
native fellah population has been held by foreign conquerors since
the decline of the Pharoahs have helped preserve the race in its
village Persians,Greeks,Romans,Arabs,Turks,French,and English have all
followed the same policy here. They have laid hand on the riches of
Egypt,and taken power in order to do so ,but have neither associated
with nor supplanted the fellahin who produce the wealth.

page 64

The Egyptian Peasent

Henery Ayrout Habib

Becon Press

Ayrout, Henry Habib. 1968. The Egyptian Peasant. Translated by John
Alden Williams. Boston: Beacon Press.

The fellah is a sturdily built man,though rarely stout. His skull and
face are broad,his forehead narrow,his eyes dark and hair curling. He
has rather prominent cheeckbones,a thick nose,full but seldom
protruding lips and a heavy jaw. His features on the whole are rugged
but not ill-favored,and are neither very sensitive nor expressiive.
His thick wrists ,ankles,and neck distinguish him the supple Bedouin.
His back is rounded,his shoulders not so much sloping as bent toward
his chest and his hips are narrow. he has rather large flattish
feet,and is rarely tall,his average height being about 5 feet,6 inches.

page 66

The Egyptian Peasent

Henery Ayrout Habib

But the deserts of the eat and west,the narrowness of the pass to the
south,as well as the density of the original population and the
unusual chracterof the valley,have kept the country free from mass
immigration . All these geographical and historical factors have
preserved the Egyptian type among the fellahin,who have kept a facial
apperance disinguishing them among the countless mixtures of the Near-East

page 65

First published in France in 1938 under the title Moeurs et Coutumes
des Fellahs

first English translation Published in Cairo in 1945

New English translation with revisions by the author published by
Beacon press in 1963
copyright 1963 by Beacon Press

Published simultaneously
in Canada by
S.J. Reginald Saunders
and Company ,Ltd, Toronto

Henery Habib Aryout
The Egyptian Peasent
Translated by
John Alden Willams

hose Arabs who have remained nomadic,and live by the transport
of cotton on the camelback,byt pasturing their flocks or by robbery
and murder------those infact known in Egypt as Bedouin---differ
markedly from the Fellahin by their finer features and their more
excitable temperament.

page 64

The Egyptian Peasent

Henery Ayrout Habib

Becon Press

Ayrout, Henry Habib. 1968. The Egyptian Peasant. Translated by John
Alden Williams. Boston: Beacon Press.

Arab writters on the rual Egyptian Fellahin during the Middle Ages
While the villages live on in their enclosed world,almost untouched
by the influence of Islam,the cities were the product of the great
medevil Islamic civlization which was essentially urban. The city
dwellers depised the Fellahin and had almost no contact with them
excepot in the purchase of their crops. It is no exgeration to say
that the citzens of Cairo felt more in common with the inhabitants
felt more in common with the inhabitants of Damacus or Bagdad than he
did with a Egyptian fellahin. All the Arabic litterature of the
period belongs to the cities and provides no insight of the country
side.
Page 100
The Arab World: A Comprehensive History
by Peter Mansfield

In Conclusion the closest stock to the ancient Egyptians are the Fellahin in Upper Egypt and the Sa3eadi in Luxor to Aswan. None have mixed very much with Arabs due to hatred between the two. What little Arab settlements have never blended in with the Fellahin,and neither has any foreginers. The communities have remained isolated from other groups;thus preserving the AE phenotype the best.

Matter of fact when Auguste Marinette,a prominent French Egyptologist work crew consisting of rural Egyptians found the ancient Egyptian statue they swore it was their village headmen so they named it Sheikh El Beled. Just to show the AE and the modern Egyptians are very much connected despite Arabization.

See the following:

As has been noted, when Mariette's workmen at Saqqara, excavated the wooden
statue of Ka-aper, his Egyptian workmen were so struck by its resemblance
to their village headman, that they exclaimed Sheikh el-Beled. This remark
is worth a thousand words, on the continuity of the Egyptian population
from pharaonic to modern Egypt. Also, as the studies of al-Batrawi in
1945-46, showed, there was no displacement of the Egyptian population from
pharaonic times to modern times
Sincerely,
Frank J. Yurco
University of Chicago

--
Frank Joseph Yurco fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu

posted 25 June 2004 08:03 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ayazid:
Ausar, please dont copy all these texts, only give the link ...

Déja vu

---

It seems to me that most of these references are from books and not online. This may be the reason he spelt them out this way.

posted 26 June 2004 05:53 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by BahYBasha:
guys u r going crazy!
what difference does it make if we are arabs or not?!
Everybody will aruge about what he believe in but that wont get us anywhere.
muslims and christans in Egypt had a great histroy of Defending Egypt together against the invadors.
Egypt is one of the few places where u could see thousands of mosques and chruchs stand up infront of each other.
thinking about what happiened in the past and attacking each other wont do us any good.

---

I think the problem is that some in Middle East tend to have a perception that if one person shares a certain language and religion with another, that makes them part of the same race. What many Gulf Arabs fail to see, is that Egyptians had an identity before the Arab conquest of that country. This conquest followed years of some intermingling, but for the most part it hasn't changed the overall identity of Egyptians. So, Egyptians who feel they are Arabs, are probably those who have some Arab blood in them. Those who say they aren't Arabs, don't have Arab blood...you'll find most of these in areas of middle to upper Egypt. It is as simple as that. These people are determined to keep their identity as Egyptians. While there may be some hatred between Arabs and Egyptians, it's probably born out of how they were treated while under Arab control, and how they feel they are treated today in Gulf states. As far as race goes, I don't think it is personal. They just feel that they are Egyptians who happen to share a common language and religion with Gulf Arabs. That's where the brotherhood ends!

posted 27 June 2004 10:29 AM            

firstly let us get the terms corect- arabs in the true sense are not saudis not jordanians not egyptians or moroccans they are low and behold...

wait for it this is shocking...

scroll down cos you will need a second to prepare urself for this...

...

yemenis from a particular part of yemen i think sana or something

- now if we assume that is what arabs are well that means most ppl aint arab- but as it happens a lot of ppl became arab and others were mixed- so here is a question which of the following two have arab blood- tibet, berbers or kurds... answer is both- ancient yemeni tribes went up there- although hum actually hold on not sure if these tribes were from the right part of yemen - i think the ones that are now berbers are those that left after the sad or dam or something in mairib was destroyed- anthropology is really interesting- basically evertyone is everything and noone is nothing- if you go far back enough... any way did the prophet SAW no say anyone who speaks arabic is an arab- see i see all this mix as an opportunity is should be a cause of celebration not argument

anyway i have one last thing to say... this is really really important, according to the insurance policy with post office in england egypt is not part of the middle east- nay, ist is not part of africa- nay, it is not part of russia double nay, and not part of north america- triple nay spit on the ground!, it is in fact part of EUROPE--- can you believe it, we thouhght they got somthing wrong at first, i even tried to give them a geography lesson, but they are still convinced!

anyway maybe they are actually 10 steps ahead --- see think tectonic plates... now some land scientist/geographist what ever tell me- which way is egypt drifting- seriously cos if it is drifting towards europe all you gippos out there with an identity crisis are gonna have big problems ahead--- big problems!- sorry but that thought really tickles me!

wasalamu'alaykum

posted 30 June 2004 01:37 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by adhra:
ok ok ok ppl

firstly let us get the terms corect- arabs in the true sense are not saudis not jordanians not egyptians or moroccans they are low and behold...

wait for it this is shocking...

scroll down cos you will need a second to prepare urself for this...

...

yemenis from a particular part of yemen i think sana or something

- now if we assume that is what arabs are well that means most ppl aint arab- but as it happens a lot of ppl became arab and others were mixed- so here is a question which of the following two have arab blood- tibet, berbers or kurds... answer is both- ancient yemeni tribes went up there- although hum actually hold on not sure if these tribes were from the right part of yemen - i think the ones that are now berbers are those that left after the sad or dam or something in mairib was destroyed- anthropology is really interesting- basically evertyone is everything and noone is nothing- if you go far back enough... any way did the prophet SAW no say anyone who speaks arabic is an arab- see i see all this mix as an opportunity is should be a cause of celebration not argument

anyway i have one last thing to say... this is really really important, according to the insurance policy with post office in england egypt is not part of the middle east- nay, ist is not part of africa- nay, it is not part of russia double nay, and not part of north america- triple nay spit on the ground!, it is in fact part of EUROPE--- can you believe it, we thouhght they got somthing wrong at first, i even tried to give them a geography lesson, but they are still convinced!

anyway maybe they are actually 10 steps ahead --- see think tectonic plates... now some land scientist/geographist what ever tell me- which way is egypt drifting- seriously cos if it is drifting towards europe all you gippos out there with an identity crisis are gonna have big problems ahead--- big problems!- sorry but that thought really tickles me!

wasalamu'alaykum

---

posted 30 June 2004 01:41 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by adhra:
ok ok ok ppl

firstly let us get the terms corect- arabs in the true sense are not saudis not jordanians not egyptians or moroccans they are low and behold...

wait for it this is shocking...

scroll down cos you will need a second to prepare urself for this...

...

yemenis from a particular part of yemen i think sana or something

- now if we assume that is what arabs are well that means most ppl aint arab- but as it happens a lot of ppl became arab and others were mixed- so here is a question which of the following two have arab blood- tibet, berbers or kurds... answer is both- ancient yemeni tribes went up there- although hum actually hold on not sure if these tribes were from the right part of yemen - i think the ones that are now berbers are those that left after the sad or dam or something in mairib was destroyed- anthropology is really interesting- basically evertyone is everything and noone is nothing- if you go far back enough... any way did the prophet SAW no say anyone who speaks arabic is an arab- see i see all this mix as an opportunity is should be a cause of celebration not argument

anyway i have one last thing to say... this is really really important, according to the insurance policy with post office in england egypt is not part of the middle east- nay, ist is not part of africa- nay, it is not part of russia double nay, and not part of north america- triple nay spit on the ground!, it is in fact part of EUROPE--- can you believe it, we thouhght they got somthing wrong at first, i even tried to give them a geography lesson, but they are still convinced!

anyway maybe they are actually 10 steps ahead --- see think tectonic plates... now some land scientist/geographist what ever tell me- which way is egypt drifting- seriously cos if it is drifting towards europe all you gippos out there with an identity crisis are gonna have big problems ahead--- big problems!- sorry but that thought really tickles me!

wasalamu'alaykum

---

posted 10 October 2004 08:41 PM            

So Egyptians are not Arabs, so what? Big deal!

It's funny, one of the biggest Arab nationalistic movement occurred in Egypt. Don't understand why so many non-Arab Egyptians would be so pan-Arab. It's sad that some "Muslim" Egyptians want more division in the Muslim and the Arab world. What happen to unity? You see that there are problems in the Arab world, so you turn your back on us? What if the Arab world was the most prosperous and strongest, you would not have even consider the thought of Egyptians not being Arab. This proves that it is pride that guides your thoughts.

Yes, there is some corruption in the Gulf, and lot of Arabs in the gulf are racist. But let's not forget the corruption in Egypt. The media is horrendous, it is illegal for a woman to wear a hijab on Egyptian television! One television personality was fired because she decided to wear the hijab one day. But scantily-clad women are allowed to be on Masri television.

posted 20 May 2005 11:36 AM            

Didn't the Yugoslavian (eastern europe) Muslims (mainly Turks) return to Egypt and form one of the last dynasties. We all know Egypt is an African country, big deal so as Germany is a European country.

Wasn't Antar the heroe of the Arabs? He probably seemed to have more of his patrolineal phenotype but agian, big deal! So what, his heroism as man who fought against his enemies are the clue. Anything else is uselss?

hoda hafez

posted 20 May 2005 12:15 PM            

[B]Egyptians are Egyptians. period

Agree 100%.

posted 24 May 2005 07:56 PM            

quote:

---

Egypt, as a Muslim country, has the names of those that conquered it through conversion, over the many centuries. The Arab mixed with some Eqyption people and not with others and it would make sense that human contact made would show up in ntDNA/ Y chrosome. It tells us the Y element was male (U6/L3 or even the specific group M from East Africa? that carried it to Asia and then back.

Didn't the Yugoslavian (eastern europe) Muslims (mainly Turks) return to Egypt and form one of the last dynasties. We all know Egypt is an African country, big deal so as Germany is a European country.

Wasn't Antar the heroe of the Arabs? He probably seemed to have more of his patrolineal phenotype but agian, big deal! So what, his heroism as man who fought against his enemies are the clue. Anything else is uselss?

hoda hafez

---

Not only mixture with Arabs. Before the Arabs even came to Egypt intermarriage between indigenous Egyptians and Macedonians was quite common. Then you have migrations from Syrians,Armenians,Greeks,and others that intermingled with the Christian populations in Egypt.

Yes, the Turkish people settled all over Egypt and intermingled with Egyptians. Even in far away places like Aswan into Dongola Sudan you can find people with Bosnian,Hungarian,and Turkish ancestry. Infact, there is a prominent Nubian group called the Kushaf that come from the union between Turkish soliders and Nubians.

Areas in Middle Egypt were settled by Greeks,Syrians,and other groups. I am certain there had to be intermingling with these elements and they were absorbed into the Egyptian population.

However, the people with the least foreign admixture are the Saidi people in Upper Egypt. Of course you might even still find foreign ancestry in these groups as well. Just not as much as in Cairo or Alexandria.