posted 11 August 2004 02:40 PM            

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Originally posted by ausar:
The problem with the hypothesis that ''white'' Berbers are the result of white slave trade is that only rural Berbers have a very light complexion.

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Thought Writes:

posted 11 August 2004 02:42 PM            

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Originally posted by ausar:
The Libyans on the reliefs in AE are shown with white skin and reddish hair well before any slave trade. I'm not saying these people existed in Neolithic times but it's evident they are documented after the Middle Kingdom in AE.

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Thought Writes:

posted 11 August 2004 03:24 PM            

Which part of the Sahara do the original Berbers come from if I may ask? I understand that it was probabaly the northern portion which was around the Atlas mountains. Central and Southern Saharan populations are ancestrial to Western African people.

You should check out a book called the Eastern Libyans which describes in detail the origins of these people. Another book called the Berbers by Elizabeth Fentress. Both these books might give you some understanding.

In Neolithic Northern Africa we has Capsian,Methc-Aflou,Iber-Maursian. All these cultures existed around the coastl region and most are probabaly ancestrial to modern day Imazigh[Berbers].

My only concern are with the Tamahou and Tehennu which seem to be ethnically different people.

posted 11 August 2004 08:03 PM            

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Originally posted by ausar:
Thought,I never said the Berbers have a unified culture but most people like the Tuareg claim to come from regions like Libya,or Morocco. Let's just say the Imazigh[Berbers] were a hetrogenous population that was comprised of many ethnic types. Each one of these groups had a different name for themselves from the Kel Tamelsheq[Tuaregs] to Kaybele[Imazigh] and a culture that was distinct.

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Thought Writes:

posted 11 August 2004 08:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Which part of the Sahara do the original Berbers come from if I may ask?

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Thought Writes:

posted 11 August 2004 08:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
I understand that it was probabaly the northern portion which was around the Atlas mountains. Central and Southern Saharan populations are ancestrial to Western African people.

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Thought Writes:

posted 11 August 2004 08:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Central and Southern Saharan populations are ancestrial to Western African people.

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Thought Writes:

posted 11 August 2004 08:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
In Neolithic Northern Africa we has Capsian,Methc-Aflou,Iber-Maursian. All these cultures existed around the coastl region and most are probabaly ancestrial to modern day Imazigh[Berbers].

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Thought Writes:

posted 13 August 2004 02:41 AM            

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Originally posted by rasol:
"1504: The Funj kingdom is founded by Amara Dunqas in central of Sudan near the confluence of the White and the Blue Niles. Sennar becomes its capital. Dunqas converts to Islam, and spread the new religion all over this part of Sudan.
17th century: Funj kingdom controls large parts of eastern Sudan, from Nubia to the Ethiopia in south. The kingdom controlled important trade routes, bringing in good revenues.
18th century: The Funj rulers start to build up a military caste made up of slaves from foreign lands. This group would develop into a political factor that challenged the Funj aristocracy, and eventually the king. This destroyed the political power of the Funj, and made the kingdom an easy prey for foreign warlords.
1821: The Egyptians attack Sennar, bringing the Funj kingdom to an end. Hence all of Sudan down the Nile, through the Blue Nile, and the Atbara river came under control of Muhammad Ali." - Encylopedia of the Orient.

"The Funj Nation, because of its Muslim shield and "war-making machine", survived in what would have otherwise been impossible circumstances for 300 years. The end came at the beginning of the 19 century when the Ottoman Turks began their reign of terror in the Sudan with the seizure of Sennar by Muhammad Ali." - Chancellor Williams.

"In 1820 the sultan of Sannar informed Muhammad Ali that he was unable to comply with the demand to expel the Mamluks. In response the pasha sent 4,000 troops to invade Sudan, clear it of Mamluks, and reclaim it for Egypt. The pasha's forces received the submission of the kashif, dispersed the Dunqulah Mamluks, conquered Kurdufan, and accepted Sannar's surrender from the last Funj sultan, Badi IV.

Under the new government established in 1821, which was known as the Turkiyah or Turkish regime, soldiers lived off the land and exacted exorbitant taxes from the population. They also destroyed many ancient Meroitic pyramids searching for hidden gold. Furthermore, slave trading increased, causing many of the inhabitants of the fertile Al Jazirah, heartland of Funj, to flee to escape the slave traders. Within a year of the pasha's victory, 30,000 Sudanese slaves went to Egypt for training and induction into the army. However, so many perished from disease and the unfamiliar climate that the remaining slaves could be used only in garrisons in Sudan." - SudanHome.com

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