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Thought2 Member Posts: 1337 |
posted 25 July 2004 04:59 PM
  
quote:
To be honest with you, your statement is a bit incoheirent. Can you please restate in clearer terms. Thank you. IP: Logged |
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neo*geo Member Posts: 808 |
posted 25 July 2004 05:55 PM
quote: What's tired are those blinders you wear so well. I forgot to mention my college buddies I visited in Abidjan were the children of "wealthy" politicians and business men. And I graduated from the very prestigious (nearly Ivy League) Boston University, whose reputation internationally is NO WHERE near Harvard University. So if anyone from Africa or anywhere else in the world were fortunate enough to attend Harvard, you'd better believe they did not descend from the OPPRESSED lower class societies.[/b][/QUOTE] There are always exceptions. A few years back Oprah had on her show a man who's family were refugees from Sudan. He came to the US very young set his goals high and managed to get a full scholarship to go to Harvard and his family is not wealthy as are many of the Africans fortunate enough to attend college in the US.
quote: I can't speak for the masses of African people, I can only speak for black Americans. I agree that the black Africans who get into elite colleges in the US are exceptional, even the poor ones. Heck, almost anyone who gets into an elite college based on merit is either academically exceptional or like President Bush, they have wealthy and powerful parents.
quote: It's you who is crying the victimology crap by claiming the big bad "white man" still oppresses blacks all over the world. Black Americans have been free from physical slavery for quite some time, those who still think the white man is oppressing them should emancipate their minds.
quote: I surround myself with a diverse group of people. Racially, ethnically, and economically diverse. IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 25 July 2004 06:34 PM
quote: It seems to me based on your constant whining that it is African Americans you don't relate to. Just a thought. IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 25 July 2004 06:52 PM
quote: the above quote is case in point, regarding the prior observation. also, if this were true, instead of a simplistic generalization, then all the more reason for African Americans to learn from Africans...and vice versa. but of course, for you, the real point is to vent (and also restoke) your pent up rage. sad to see that after our little talk yesterday, you've apparently learned nothing, and are back to projecting your self hatred on to others. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 25 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 25 July 2004 07:09 PM
quote: Western civilization IS Pan European. The US is a Pan European Nation where all Europeans join together into a ruling class based on common "whiteness". The US discourages African immigration compared to white, in order to surpress its African population. Indeed it was openly stated strategy of many white American leaders after the civil war, that both the Black and the Indian should be "allowed to die out", with some help if necessary. This is similar to the assimilation strategy, I think Neo spoke of earlier, wherin say...in 500 years, there would be few if any "Black" people left in the United States. By Kemetic standards..500 years is a the blink of an eye. IP: Logged |
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neo*geo Member Posts: 808 |
posted 25 July 2004 07:36 PM
quote: I agree that AA's can learn a lot from black Africans and Afro-Carribeans. The main thing we can learn is how to take advantage of the opportunities we have in the US as they do.
quote: Self-criticism? yes. Self-hatred? never. Black Americans need to clean up our own house. Black Africans need to clean up their own houses. IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 25 July 2004 08:02 PM
quote: nope. in order for you to reach a level where you are not projecting your anger and hate on to others, you need to rewrite as... i need to clean up my own act ....now THAT, would be self criticism. peace. IP: Logged |
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 26 July 2004 12:50 PM
quote: Allow me to say, first off, you are correct in implying a Malay component to the mix as we shall see... I didn't include the African island of Malagasy (Madagascar) which is heavily Malay(Malayo-Indonesian)-African in its ethnic makeup... What I mean by "Egyptianization" is simply the fact that we do not need any genetic analysis of African-Americans to 'fully know' our roots, anymore than we need any genetic analysis of the Kememu to fully know their roots. "Say man, are you sure you're an African? Show me your DNA printout!" Here's all the analysis we need, from one of the twentieth century's greatest African scholars: "Soon...the American (slave) trade developed. A strong, unchecked demand for brute labor in the West Indies and on the continent of America grew until it culminated in the eighteenth century, when Negro slaves were crossing the Atlantic at the rate of fifty to one hundred thousand a year. This called for slave raiding on a scale that drew upon every part of Africa-- upon the west coast, the western and Egyptian Sudan, the valley of the Congo, Abyssinia, the lake regions, the east coast, and Madagascar. Not simply the degraded and weaker types of Negroes were seized, but the strong Bantu, the Mandingo and Songhay, the Nubian and Nile Negroes, the Fula, and even the Asiatic Malay, were represented in the raids... reason for the 'west-coast' origin emphasis. The natural desire to avoid a painful subject has led historians to gloss over the details of the slave trade and leave the impression that it was a local west-coast phenomenon and confined to a few years. It was, on the contrary, continent wide and centuries long and an economic, social, and political catastrophe probably unparalleled in human history..." -- The Negro by WEB DuBois, University of Pennsylvania Press (c) 2001, pp149;154-5 In everything, however, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions. African Americans clearly rejected the caste system based upon skin color which was adopted in Haiti and Jamaica, and imposed in Apartheid South Africa, Brazil, and (as anyone who has been reading this forum knows) more subtly in modern Egypt. This African-American ideology and practice is a valuable contribution by African-Americans towards the African renaissance. IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 26 July 2004 01:34 PM
quote: Correct. Intelligent individuals should now be able to comprehend the relationship between the claim that slavery was an isolated - west coast african - phenomenon, and the related claim that the descendants of slaves constitute and isolated - west coast african - race. They are related propaganda claims. There should be no further excuse for confusion over this point. IP: Logged |
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 26 July 2004 01:35 PM
This is just a FYI in case someone wants to count their ancestors: One of the popular misconceptions regarding one's ancestors is that of tracing back to a single one or a single place. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite operate that way. The number of a persons ancestors increases exponentially the farther one goes back in time. It's almost like counting in 'computerese.' The formula is 2^gen, where gen is the number of generations (usually 30 years) removed from the present: No. of Direct Ancestors: 0 - Present (You?) IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 26 July 2004 06:45 PM
quote: one correction. assumes brothers and sisters don't marry, as they often did in the case of kemetic royalty. IP: Logged |
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Thought2 Member Posts: 1337 |
posted 26 July 2004 11:36 PM
quote: Thought Writes: Agreed! IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 27 July 2004 07:57 AM
quote:http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/07/26/young.ancestryresearc.ap/index.html IP: Logged |
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 27 July 2004 01:59 PM
quote:http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/07/26/young.ancestryresearc.ap/index.html [/B][/QUOTE] IP: Logged |
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homeylu Member Posts: 482 |
posted 27 July 2004 02:09 PM
quote:http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/07/26/young.ancestryresearc.ap/index.html [/B][/QUOTE] [/B][/QUOTE]
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 28 July 2004 01:52 PM
quote:
And Andy Youngs comment: "I guess I never really wanted to know where in Africa I was from because I would decide where I was from by where I happened to be," Young said. "I wanted to be from all of Africa, not just a particular place in Africa." This seems a rather naive statement coming from someone as accomplished as Andy Young. One ancestor from one location in Africa doesn't preclude the existance of ancestors (as Dr. DuBois has indicated) from all over Africa. The reality is that Africans in the Diaspora are not only related to say, a Yoruba or practically any other African group by race, but also by blood. It is quite remarkable and profound, if one actually thinks about it... IP: Logged |
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neo*geo Member Posts: 808 |
posted 28 July 2004 02:26 PM
quote: All human beings are related by blood. We all have a common original ancestor(s) in Africa. The only race that matters is the human race... IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 28 July 2004 03:06 PM
quote: Humans are related to apes by blood, apes to monkeys, monkeys to other primates, primates to other mammals, mammals, to reptiles and birds....etc. 99% of species that have ever existed have eventually died out. The human race will die out too. So the human race doesn't matter either. IP: Logged |
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kifaru Member Posts: 81 |
posted 28 July 2004 04:42 PM
Sorry for jumping in late. Just some comments about previous posts.
quote: It would be nice if this were true but it isn't. There has been and there still is a a pigment based class(caste) system in African Americans. Just look at who has the money and who they marry and that will let you know. Or better yet look to African Americans political and business leaders. There aren't many very dark people there. There's a reason why you don't see very dark wealthy African American men or light African American wealthy men married to very dark women (for the most part).
quote: That's true and many don't care to know.
quote: Where did you get this data? I'd like to research it my self.
quote: Couldn't have said it better myself. This is especially true of the French and the British who are still holding there former colonies in africa with a soft but very real leash. IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 28 July 2004 06:12 PM
quote: Which would be? I don't know how accurate that is, but those are the top 5. IP: Logged |
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kifaru Member Posts: 81 |
posted 28 July 2004 06:33 PM
The reason is African american men like men all over the world like trophy wives. In the Americas that means that black men will tend toward lighter more "eurpoean" looking women or women who have features that are less often associated with "Africaness". You will have a hard time finding a wealthy black man who takes a wife after he achieves his is very dark or has very pronounced "African" features. More often than not she will be a mulatto or at least much lighter than the color of milk chocolate. Lauren Hill or India Irie two popular black singers would not have a snowballs chance in hell securing the types of husbands that Halle Berry has. Odds are that the successful wealthy man of African descent is going lighter not darker when it comes to choosing a mate there by perpetuating light skinned hegemony over the black community. IP: Logged |
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ausar Moderator Posts: 3647 |
posted 28 July 2004 06:44 PM
Halle Berry married a farily dark man named Eric Benne. Lauryn Hill is very attractive in my opinion,and probabaly more so than Halle Berry. IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 28 July 2004 06:52 PM
Kifaru, I don't know whether that's true or not. I do know it doesn't answer my question. Please read it again carefully, and address..... thx. IP: Logged |
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 28 July 2004 07:25 PM
quote: It would be nice if this were true but it isn't. There has been and there still is a a pigment based class(caste) system in African Americans. Just look at who has the money and who they marry and that will let you know. Or better yet look to African Americans political and business leaders. There aren't many very dark people there. There's a reason why you don't see very dark wealthy African American men or light African American wealthy men married to very dark women (for the most part).
quote: That's true and many don't care to know.
quote: Where did you get this data? I'd like to research it my self.
quote: Couldn't have said it better myself. This is especially true of the French and the British who are still holding there former colonies in africa with a soft but very real leash.[/QUOTE] Alrighty, A good start on your research would be the book I referred to by WEB DuBois. He wrote a lot of them. You should read them all... [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 28 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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homeylu Member Posts: 482 |
posted 28 July 2004 11:30 PM
quote: I'm sorry but I have to agree with you on this one. African American men are guilty on being conditioned by the mass media in determining what's considered beautiful starting with the Blonde haired blue eyed barbie dolls they watched their little sisters play with. It does appear that Denzel Washington, Magic Johnson, Wyclef and Samuel Jackson are exceptions in hollywood with their dark-skinned wives rather than the rule. What's even worst, is now it appears that not even light skinned black women are enough for them, they've crossed the boundaries to hispanic and white women, just look at the countless athletes. Most of them are in a trance like self-denial so deep that they will give you any excuse in the book for why the mated with their lighter counterparts rather than admit that women like their own mothers and sisters are in fact beautiful. On the flip side of the coin, you will find so many European men in love with darker skinned women- look at Diana Ross, Whoopi Goldberg, Tina Turner, Naomi Campbell, Erika Alexander, all sisters currently with or previously in relationships with European men. The media (modeling industry) does play a role in what is considered beautiful, when my parents were growing up you would never see a dark skinned model in Ebony magazine. Oprah Winfrey had the extremely dark Afrocentric Super Model Alek Wek on her show and told her that had she (Alek) been around when she(Oprah) was growing up, she (oprah) would have thought of herself as beautiful. But as Tyra Banks expressed, only one Black Supermodel wil be allowed to reign at a time, there will not be a large influx of Sudanese model Alek Wek. I am myself ashamed and embarassed to admit as an African American woman, that Alek Wek's beauty had to grow on me. We were not conditioned to view African features as beautiful when on a woman. And you won't find to many men to claim India Airie is beautiful, especially since she shaved off all her hair. But what is truly beautful about India is her eternal beauty and self-love that would make any one turn heads as she carries herself so gracefully. Lauren Hills is beautiful, and she is married to Bob Marley's son, so obviously she didn't have a hard time finding a husband. But unfortnately your assessment is correct, but it all comes down to self-love, India wrote a song about it:video IP: Logged |
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homeylu Member Posts: 482 |
posted 28 July 2004 11:57 PM
A photo of Sudanese supermodel Alek Wek for those who have never heard of her; very tall female from the Dinka tribe, some of the tallest people on earth The photo didn't show up, but here's her website http://www.alekwek.cjb.net/ Interesting, Herodotus: The Histories, c. 430 BCE, Book III (On Ethiopia) Funny how the world view has flipped in the past 3,000 years :sad: Maybe times are changing, she was voted in Black Male magazine a few years ago as one of the most beautiful women of their readers [This message has been edited by homeylu (edited 29 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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kifaru Member Posts: 81 |
posted 29 July 2004 04:51 AM
quote: I agree and he's very handsome and this is why Lauren Hill or India Irie would not be on his list of potential mates. Even though he's not nearly as famous at this point and I suspect not as wealthy as either they are not the traditional trophy wives of black men.
quote:I agree.
quote: Class: Weatlthy or notable African Americans and their families Ethnic Groups: If you want to see it in action as far as groups I suggest you research so called triracial isolates especially those on the N.C. and V.A. border area of the united states.
quote: It never ceases to amaze me when black American people talk about this subject and throw up Dubois or B.T. Washington. They are both mulattoes of the black elite and if you look at the marriage choices of their descendants you will see that they still look rather "mulattoish". I suggest you start your research with "Our Kind of People: Inside America's Black Upper Class" -- by Lawrence Otis Graham. Marrying up in African American society means marrying light. I don't know why so many African Americans get so bent out of shape when this is mentioned because it is true. Rasol please state your question again. I though I answered it but if I didn't I'll try again. IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 29 July 2004 07:16 AM
quote: Nevermind. It's not worth it. IP: Logged |
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homeylu Member Posts: 482 |
posted 29 July 2004 11:54 AM
quote: Let's see... Anything else you'd like to share? IP: Logged |
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kifaru Member Posts: 81 |
posted 29 July 2004 12:21 PM
quote: Hey, I'm secure enough to give a another man compliment. Based on Ausar's statement, Miss egypt looks like a man. I'll assume he knows more about Egyptian women than I do and take his advice because maybe that's how a Egyptian transgendered person looks. This being the case and since I am not a gay I'd have to do a DNA test to see if it is a he or she but right now it looks like a woman to me. Just joking about the beer  For the record Homeylu, I like black american woman just fine:0 IP: Logged |
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homeylu Member Posts: 482 |
posted 29 July 2004 12:29 PM
quote: Hey, I'm secure enough to give a another man compliment. Based on Ausar's statement, Miss egypt looks like a man. I'll assume he knows more about Egyptian women than I do and take his advice because maybe that's how a Egyptian transgendered person looks. This being the case and since I am not a gay I'd have to do a DNA test to see if it is a he or she but right now it looks like a woman to me. Just joking about the beer For the record Homeylu, I like black american woman just fine:0[/QUOTE] Well if you're a black American woman of course you'll be "secure enough to give another man a compliment Anyway, pay me no mind, I just like analyzing statements, we all do right? IP: Logged |
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 29 July 2004 01:41 PM
quote: As I've stated, you couldn't answer my question, simply because there is no separate class of 'mulattoes' or 'coloreds' within the United States of America. Your efforts to prove something which does not exist makes your statements appear ideologically confused: Social Class is defined as people having the same social or economic status; IE the working class, the bourgeoisie or middle-class. Much of the African-American
quote: Intelligent people read the works of DuBois and Booker T. Washington in order to learn from them. You could do well to do the same... FYI: Dr. DuBois, in his later years, was invited to Ghana by President Kwame Nkrumah to supervise the planned African Encyclopedia project but was unable to complete the task because of his failing health. His wife, Shirley Graham DuBois, after his passing, spent the rest of her days in Egypt. Ms. DuBois wrote and published for the rest of her life. Some of her works include: His Day is marching On 1971, Gamel Abdul Nasser, Son of the Nile 1974, Julius K. Nyerere, Teacher of Africa 1975, and a novel The Zulu Heart. [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 29 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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kifaru Member Posts: 81 |
posted 29 July 2004 01:42 PM
Homeylu, will you be my valentine? ;D IP: Logged |
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ausar Moderator Posts: 3647 |
posted 29 July 2004 01:55 PM
Didn't Dubois call Marcus Garvey a monkey? Also the Dubois family actually live somewhere in Cairo Egypt. Dr. Yusef Ben Yochanan is married to an Egyptian Christain and lives somewhere around Giza. Himself being a Carribean and Falasha Jew mixture.
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kifaru Member Posts: 81 |
posted 29 July 2004 05:32 PM
Wally, my friend and I do consider you a friend by giving rational replies which I find lacking in many discussions look at the mates that each one of them has chosen. Add up the number of men and then group them based on color: light or dark and then do the same for their wives. Just using your list I think you will find a disporpotionate number of light colored wives. Then I suggest you expand your list and test it some more. Also look at Oprah's choice for a mate or pick a group of successful group of female entertainers and look at look at their marriage choices. Be honest and let us know the results of your own handpicked group of african americans. If I'm wrong about my observation I'll admit it. I have a tendancy to believe what I see or at least can test. Its not anything to get emotional about. [This message has been edited by kifaru (edited 29 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 29 July 2004 06:05 PM
quote: No you won't. Because your observation is not based on emperical evidence in the sense that it can actually be 'proven' or disproven. Examples and counter examples can be found endlessly yielding no agreed upon conclusion. But the really unsound part of your analysis is that even if your observation is correct...it does not prove your conclusion. One might argue that among European males blondes are preferred....but that does not equate to a caste system. I suppose I could counter any anecdotes you would offer...but I won't bother, because the underlying argument is unsound. And frankly that is also why I won't re-ask my question, because your reply to other posters indicates you have no answer. Wally is correct: either define the various castes, and who belongs and why (if you can) ie - PROVE THAT IT EXISTS.... or restate your thesis, so that it is more honest, and less sensationalistic [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 29 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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Keino Junior Member Posts: |
posted 29 July 2004 07:32 PM
quote: Wally is right! There is NO set "elite sub-black race" within America. This phenomenia is seen in Jamaica and sepecially Haiti. It is NOT seen in the Bahamas. When I take my girlfriend to the Bahamas she is always amazed at the degree of "interracial" marriages that is mundane to most of our society. It is quite common to see a white bahamian with the darkest most beautiful black bahamian girl. The opposite is also common, but for most white bahamian men black girls are more of the standard of beauty. I am not saying that we don't have racism, b/c is does exists, but is negligible and quite often classism is mistaken for racism (not that one is better than the other). Only recently there are young bahamian taking on the racial stereotypes and issues of America which in all honesty is not an issue in the Bahamas. There was recently some american social anthropologist studying the racial untiy in the Bahamas and how we were able to do it non-violently. I am not digging on America, but if America really was UNITED, this country would be awesome. I just wish you guys could just see that you are Americans, but unforutnately the system in this country make this a hard goal in reality. What do you think about the New Orleans "Creoles"? IP: Logged |
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kifaru Member Posts: 81 |
posted 29 July 2004 09:07 PM
quote: There is nothing sensationalistic about what I said. You say you wanted empirical evidence, well I used Wally's sample group and I'm still waiting for his reply. However why don't you try it. I'll make it easy for you. Take any group of 100 men who define themselves as African american or black in the U.S. and are making under $30,000 in income. Then get a group of 100 men making $30,000 to 60,000 and then a group of 100 men making more than $60,000. Make sure that you evenly distribute the men in each group as Dark and Light. They all have to have mates and they need to be defined as light and Dark. I can guarantee that the higher the income that you have in your sample group the mates list will skew towards light. Also you will see that you will find more light men with light mates. Caste as define by Merriam-Webster 1 : one of the hereditary social classes in Hinduism that restrict the occupation of their members and their association with the members of other castes 2 a : a division of society based on differences of wealth, inherited rank or privilege, profession, or occupation b : the position conferred by caste standing : PRESTIGE 3 : a system of rigid social stratification characterized by hereditary status, endogamy, and social barriers sanctioned by custom, law, or religion Now if you're really interested in the truth use this definition and do the scientific thing and take a sample. If you're upset with me disagreeing with Wally I can understand that. But if you're really being objective you would'nt mind me disagreeing because he certai nly did'nt present data to back up his statement that quote: If you like I'll even help you collect the data and although I'm engineer and fully qualified to do minor statistical analysis we can use a third part statistician to do the analysis. I'm not trying to bait you but I am willing to show and prove what I believe. Contrary to what you think I will do based on your comment,"No you won't", if the data shows me wrong I will: IP: Logged |
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 29 July 2004 09:50 PM
quote: My family is from Louisiana, and as far as I know we are not Creole (Africans with some French ancestry), however, we have on occasion been "accused" of being Creole because, I guess we have that "Louisiana Creole look." The only way you can tell if someone's Creole is usually by their last name. Creole; think Gumbo, Cotillion, Beyonce... [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 29 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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homeylu Member Posts: 482 |
posted 29 July 2004 10:38 PM
quote: Come on now Wally you completely avoided his "real" question. Now an intelligent brother such as yourself is clearly aware that at one period the French colonist in Louisiana did allow the Black Creole's(gens de coleur) certain priviledges NOT allowed to 'pure' Africans, and that some of them even owned slaves. And they did hold themselves 'apart' from other Africans as many were born freemen or descendant of Frenchmen and African women, given their freedom at young ages. It was basically the same Mulatto caste system as practiced in Haiti, and Apartheid South Africa, although it is not really practiced today. [This message has been edited by homeylu (edited 29 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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homeylu Member Posts: 482 |
posted 29 July 2004 10:43 PM
quote: Where did that come from, was it something I said *blushing* You must like those "sassy" types IP: Logged |
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homeylu Member Posts: 482 |
posted 29 July 2004 11:00 PM
quote:
quote: Both of your assessments are correct, and after close scrutiny, I realize that you're not really arguing against eachother moreso than you are both expressing different views that don't necessarily contradict the other. On the one hand Kafiru, your assessment of the so-called Black Borgeoise class decribed by Carl Otis, did exist. Yes there was an elite group of African Americans obsessed with lighter skin and caucasian features, which historically belonged to exclusive elite clubs like the Links and kids belonged to Jack and Jills who would "summer" at Martha's Vineyard. While this elite group itself was very real, their idealism was very pretentious and 'unrecognized' by White Supremacy American generally speaking, in this sense they were still "niggers" (pardon my frankness) to the typical racists white person. In other words, they existed as a higher castes only in their own minds, not recognized by Black or White Americans, unlike the Creoles of Color in New Orleans who WERE recognized and held in distinction by the FRENCH colonists(we're talking a different breed of European here-much different from the Anglo-Americans in terms of racial classifications.) While Wally is correct that the American racist one-drop rule was in full effect in the rest of the country, and no lighter skinned black was given any more priviledges based simply on their complexion. While many were able to "pass" for white, no distinction was ever made between mixed Africans and "pure" Africans, they ALL had to sit at the back of the Bus. Feel me? IP: Logged |
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rasol Member Posts: 2847 |
posted 30 July 2004 09:26 AM
Kifaru was discussing whether a "caste system" exists in America. At best. He makes anicdotal observations about skin color, marriage and income, which, even if they were accurate, do not establish cause and effect or prove existence of a 'caste system'. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 31 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 30 July 2004 12:35 PM
quote: He probably did, but the general label placed on Garvey by the American press was 'buffoon,' which is probably worse than 'monkey,'at least monkeys are 'cute.' Actually the feud between Garvey and DuBois was more of a clash of egos, rather than one of ideas, they both had fundamentally the same ideology which was Pan-Africanism. We had a similar experience in Africa when Nkrumah was getting most of the international press coverage, this seemed to have piqued the ego of President Julius Nyerere of Tanzania, and they got into this public debate - they too fundamentally shared the same ideology. Gamal Nasser of Egypt, who had as much a right to claim leadership of the radical African states, diplomatically chose to defer to Nkrumah [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 30 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 30 July 2004 12:47 PM
quote: No, no. The original debate was in response to my statement that the African-American community rejected this caste system (IE, when they were in a position to reject anything.) The systems you describe existed during the colonial slave period. It was an external imposition. We all know about the 'house negro' and the 'field negro,' my response was to show that Louisiana Creoles in present day America, are just some Black people, who usually have French sounding last names. The African-American community, once it was able to do so, put to rest the silly elitist notion of privilege based upon skin color, for the common sense reason that the typical African-American family had all these varying skin tones within their own family! IP: Logged |
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 30 July 2004 01:09 PM
TO: Kifaru FROM: Wally RE: African-Americans rejection of caste system Udjai EmiKheti, (Kemetian: "Greetings, my companion in the struggle,") I took the time to gather this information as it seemed relavent to our discussion. It is from the book - 1001 Things Everyone Should Know About African-American History by Jeffrey C. Stewart, Broadway Books, NY., page 107
quote: You see, that's what I was trying to tell you... Udjai Soni... ("later, my brother...") PS: Udjai; [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 30 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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Wally Member Posts: 755 |
posted 30 July 2004 01:27 PM
quote: Now on a lighter note... I say, there is no such thing as prettier than pretty; [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 30 July 2004).] IP: Logged |
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homeylu Member Posts: 482 |
posted 30 July 2004 01:50 PM
quote: Now on a lighter note... I say, there is no such thing as prettier than pretty; [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 30 July 2004).][/B][/QUOTE] IP: Logged |
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sunstorm2004 Member Posts: 237 |
posted 30 July 2004 02:05 PM
I like Lauren. She's both more pretty & has more soul. Lauren Hill IP: Logged |
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sunstorm2004 Member Posts: 237 |
posted 30 July 2004 03:13 PM
I say, there is no such thing as prettier than pretty; There's a dif between pretty and sexy though... You can think your sister's pretty, but you might shy away from a girlfriend that looks too much like your sister... Just a thought. Don't know what it means, but just a thought... IP: Logged |
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