African American and Ancient Egyptians

EgyptSearch Forums

Ancient Egypt and Egyptology

African American and Ancient Egyptians (Page 4)

profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Author	Topic: African American and Ancient Egyptians
kifaru Member Posts: 81 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 31 July 2004 08:23 AM quote: Originally posted by rasol: Kafiru was discussing whether a "caste system" exists in America. At best. He makes anicdotal observations about skin color, marriage and income, which, even if they were accurate, do not establish cause and effect or prove existence of a 'caste system'. Ya sadiqui Rasol, I'd swear you were trying tocome at me sideways by calling me "Kafiru". Ok, I'll take he high ground. For the record it's Kifaru. It's a Swahili name and it means Rhinocerous and it is my given name. By Webster's definition I have established your cause and effect relationship and I have clearly disputed Wally's claim that it does not or did not exist. You can't disguise your lack of response in psuedo logical or pseudo academic verbiage. I've even offered you a method to test what I stated. If you were a real academic and interested in the truth you would have disputed my test and then presented a more valid one or you would have tried my test. Once again,Wally also has provided no data that the caste system or as I have read it called "pigmentocracy does not exist. It just seems to fit his preconcieved notion of how things are. He may be right but only the data will show this. Don't hate or fear the truth. Homeylu, quote: Where did that come from, was it something I said blushing You must like those "sassy" types I don't think you're sassy so much as I think you are a woman with her own opinions. I find this very attractive No, problem with a brother showing a sister some love. (No comments about incest please, because thats not what I'm implying.) IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2847 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 31 July 2004 08:52 AM " By Webster's definition I have established your cause and effect relationship and I have clearly disputed Wally's claim that it does not or did not exist. " Then I'll make it simple. No, you haven't. I don't even think you understand what a caste system is. Read this: http://www.friesian.com/caste.htm Notice the different subdivisions. The specific people who belong to them. The social and religious pretext upon which it is maintained. The occupational subtexts. The links to physical appearance, language and ethnicity. Now let's look at America: What cast does Michael Jordan belong to? Now compare with Mohammad Ali. What caste does Thurgood Marshall belong to? How about Clarence Thomas. What caste does Collen Powell belong to? Now compare with Condelezza Rice? Don't give us long NON EXPLANATIONS either please. Just tell us what castes they belong to. Better yet...tell them, because they don't seem to be aware of it. IP: Logged
Keino Junior Member Posts: Registered:	posted 31 July 2004 11:57 AM quote: Originally posted by sunstorm2004: I like Lauren. She's both more pretty & has more soul. Lauren Hill Vivica Fox Venus Williams Angela Bassett I think the TODAY'S standard of beauty would be someone who looks like Vanessa Williams. The universal stardard is changing more and more towards characteristics that we describe as "black". I like Eve she has a beautiful face shape and juicy lips. To me beauty is beauty and I am a fan to it whatever colour and features it comes in! I am very open to the different types of beauty. Beauty without sex appeal is not that attractive. A good combination of the two is needed in my humble opinion! One a "side note-LOL" I feel that AE's were very vain and materialistic when it came to their appearance. I wonder what their standard of beauty was? Any thinks they knows? IP: Logged
sunstorm2004 Member Posts: 237 Registered: Mar 2004	posted 31 July 2004 12:19 PM I sure like the figures that women have in AE art. Nice shapes. IP: Logged
kifaru Member Posts: 81 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 31 July 2004 08:55 PM Rasol, your avoidance of the evidence I present is exceptional. Don't go into any field of science or look for an advanced degree in anything, You will be eaten alive when you try to defend. Once more here's a hypothetical. Let's say you you have a group of men that prefer women that look a certain way and they are allowed to breed with them. How long (generations) will it take for them to look like more masculine versions of the women they prefer. For example look at long standing jewish populations around the world especially those in areas remote from other jewish communities. They tend to look very much like the non jewish populations to the point of being indistinguishable from the nonjewish population by an outside observer. Extrapolate from there using wealthy african american male and light colored women. If wealth and skin color are heritable at some point you will tend to get a group of people who are wealthy and light. Rasol if you are a light skinned black and you think that I am trying to offend you I'm not. There's no need to get your undies in a bundle. Just give a scientific or at least nonemotional answer. It's not that hard. And don't give me some nellyish response like, "I'm not going to justify that with an answer". quote: Originally posted by rasol: " By Webster's definition I have established your cause and effect relationship and I have clearly disputed Wally's claim that it does not or did not exist. " Then I'll make it simple. No, you haven't. I don't even think you understand what a caste system is. Read this: http://www.friesian.com/caste.htm Notice the different subdivisions. The specific people who belong to them. The social and religious pretext upon which it is maintained. The occupational subtexts. The links to physical appearance, language and ethnicity. Now let's look at America: What cast does Michael Jordan belong to? Now compare with Mohammad Ali. What caste does Thurgood Marshall belong to? How about Clarence Thomas. What caste does Collen Powell belong to? Now compare with Condelezza Rice? They are all upper class Blacks and every man on your list has displayed a preference for marrying light colored african amreican women with the exception of the honorable clarence Thomas who also like caucasian women based on how his current wife identifies herself. I suggest you look at some of Ms Rices relatives and you tell me if they are trending toward being lighter and wealthy. I think you dare not BTW that url is talking about the indian caste system we are talking about caste in general. Stay focused young man. You may yet issue a coherent and not emotional rebuttal. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2847 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 31 July 2004 09:25 PM quote: They are all upper class Blacks ....regardless of skin color, which answers the question. There is no caste system. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 31 July 2004).] IP: Logged
homeylu Member Posts: 482 Registered: May 2004	posted 01 August 2004 05:32 PM quote: Originally posted by Keino: I think the TODAY'S standard of beauty would be someone who looks like Vanessa Williams. The universal stardard is changing more and more towards characteristics that we describe as "black". I like Eve she has a beautiful face shape and juicy lips. To me beauty is beauty and I am a fan to it whatever colour and features it comes in! I am very open to the different types of beauty. Beauty without sex appeal is not that attractive. A good combination of the two is needed in my humble opinion! One a "side note-LOL" I feel that AE's were very vain and materialistic when it came to their appearance. I wonder what their standard of beauty was? Any thinks they knows? You call that a "humble" opinion? Is "brains" included in your concept of sex appeal, or is it all just physical? IP: Logged
*neogeo** Member Posts: 808 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 01 August 2004 05:36 PM quote: Originally posted by Keino: One a "side note-LOL" I feel that AE's were very vain and materialistic when it came to their appearance. I wonder what their standard of beauty was? Any thinks they knows? It varied my friend just like standards of beauty vary today... IP: Logged
homeylu Member Posts: 482 Registered: May 2004	posted 01 August 2004 05:39 PM quote: Originally posted by kifaru: I don't think you're sassy so much as I think you are a woman with her own opinions. I find this very attractive No, problem with a brother showing a sister some love. (No comments about incest please, because thats not what I'm implying.) Well at least "somebody" recognizes a sister for the 'mental'. This is quite a compliment, especially since you have never seen me. quote: posted by Sifaru I'd swear you were trying tocome at me sideways by calling me "Kafiru". Ok, I'll take he high ground. For the record it's Kifaru. It's a Swahili name and it means Rhinocerous and it is my given name. Interesting that you were named after a "rhinocerous", does it have some sort of deeper meaning to it? Also it seemed that you were offended by "kafiru" I mistakenly referred to you like that as well (wasn't coming at you sideways though- I dive head first ) but exactly what does "kafiru" mean? This term is foreing to me. Thanks. IP: Logged
Keino Junior Member Posts: Registered:	posted 01 August 2004 09:01 PM quote: Originally posted by homeylu: You call that a "humble" opinion? Is "brains" included in your concept of sex appeal, or is it all just physical? Brains are optional! LOL! Just kidding, I go for the overall package; balance. I will sacrifice physical for brains, but never brains for physical. I like a beautiful woman who can stimulate and engage me in deep critical thinking. I like to think and theorize and I can get very annoying with my deep thoughts, but not schizotypal. I have found that as I get older I have drifted more towards brains and mentality. Physical body shape is also a big one for me. Just by looking at one's body, how they keep it and the natural body design, I can tell if she is healthy and blessed with fertility. I know I sound all "weird", but I think we all do this I'm just spelling it out so to speak. IP: Logged
Keino Junior Member Posts: Registered:	posted 01 August 2004 09:07 PM quote: Originally posted by neogeo: It varied my friend just like standards of beauty vary today...* No **** sherlock! That is just common sense! However, the standard was not what it is today and that's for sure! Are you always this antagonistic? What's the use of stating the obvious instead of giving a deeper analytical response? IP: Logged
*neogeo** Member Posts: 808 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 01 August 2004 09:24 PM quote: Originally posted by Keino: No **** sherlock! That is just common sense! However, the standard was not what it is today and that's for sure! Are you always this antagonistic? What's the use of stating the obvious instead of giving a deeper analytical response? Antagonsitic? I gave a simple answer to a simple question but here's what I think if you want to know. From the fashions, statues, and wall paintings which are said to represent the ideal we can deduce that their ideals of beauty were more Afrocentric. The Egyptians believed they were the perfect civilization so naturally, their ideals of beauty reflected the best in themselves. IP: Logged
Keino Junior Member Posts: Registered:	posted 01 August 2004 09:32 PM quote: Originally posted by neo*geo: Antagonsitic? I gave a simple answer to a simple question but here's what I think if you want to know. From the fashions, statues, and wall paintings which are said to represent the ideal we can deduce that their ideals of beauty were more Afrocentric. The Egyptians believed they were the perfect civilization so naturally, their ideals of beauty reflected the best in themselves. OK a more appropriate response-LOL! Here's more of what I would like to expound on: what were there views on hair and bodily hair? I am not clear on how they viewed the aesthetic beauty of hair. I have read that the didn't like to have hair. Obviously dark brown was their standard of skin beauty with women sometimes depicted lighter and men darker. Didn't they think that the cat represented an almost pure beauty hence they painted their faces with make-up with outlines to resemble the natural contour lines of cat's? Was the cat an animal that represented beauty? [This message has been edited by Keino (edited 01 August 2004).] IP: Logged
*neogeo** Member Posts: 808 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 01 August 2004 09:56 PM quote: Originally posted by Keino: OK a more appropriate response-LOL! Here's more of what I would like to expound on: what were there views on hair and bodily hair? I am not clear on how they viewed the aesthetic beauty of hair. To have body hair was viewed as unclean. Both men and women would shave all body hair off. Both men and women wore make up and wigs. However, Egyptian men would let their hair grow in times of mourning. Children would have the one lock hairstyle until they reached adulthood. quote: Originally posted by Keino: Obviously dark brown was their standard of skin beauty with women sometimes depicted lighter and men darker. Most of the time, skin color was symbolic. Maybe they associated lighter skin with feminity? I'm not quite sure why women were often depicted with light brown or yellow skin. Sometimes yellow skin was meant to represent actual skin color. For example, there is a wall painting from the Middle Kingdom of Queen Kemsit with her Asiatic servants. Kemsit was a Nubian and is depicted in the painting with the stereotypical black colored skin while her servants, Asiatic women, are depicted with stereotypical yellowish skin color. I can't answer the cat question. I always believed they loved cats and dogs equally... IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2847 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 02 August 2004 12:32 AM Kem = Black. Kemsit = Black lady. Kememu = Black People Kemet = Black Nation aka Egypt, No mysteries except the ones we make to hide from the truth. IP: Logged
kifaru Member Posts: 81 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 02 August 2004 06:09 AM quote: Originally posted by homeylu: Interesting that you were named after a "rhinocerous", does it have some sort of deeper meaning to it? Also it seemed that you were offended by "kafiru" I mistakenly referred to you like that as well (wasn't coming at you sideways though- I dive head first ) but exactly what does "kafiru" mean? This term is foreing to me. Thanks. The "kafiru" comment was directed at rasol. I didn't want to jump to any conclusions about Rasol but he seems to have Muslim name. Assuming he was a member of the Umma (islamic community) kafir singular sometimes pronounced kafiru and kafiruun plural is a disbeliever but her term usually carries more of an invective sense amongst Muslims. This is one of the worst things you can call someone in islam. I was a little taken aback. Its easy for a non muslim to make this mistake but a muslim would notice it right off. The fact that he didn't apologize when questioned about it makes me feel a little uneasy. Because of this he seems a little "nellyish". No need to throw good manners out the window because we are on the net and noone "can get at you". I suspect that he would not do that to someone he was talking with and they were standing next to him. I was born i the 70's and my parents wanted me to have an african name. Learning Swahili was popular at this time amongst african americans and my mother and father saw a documentary with some people in kenya "worshipping" a kifaru and that's how I got my name. There is no etymological relationship between kifaru and kafiru. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 2847 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 02 August 2004 06:39 AM quote: The "kafiru" comment was directed at rasol. I didn't want to jump to any conclusions about Rasol but he seems to have Muslim name. Assuming he was a member of the Umma Assuming? That is incorrect. You are charging rhinosaurus-like to wrong conclusions, about that and many other things. But you are apparently new to this group and I don't want to argue unnecessarily with you, so let me welcome you, my brother Kifaru. IP: Logged
prodj300 Junior Member Posts: 1 Registered: Apr 2005	posted 15 April 2005 07:23 PM ok i read ure thingy and i thiught it was aalright i reckon u could have put a map on there and shaded in the countrys that the ancient egyptians traded with IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1408 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 16 April 2005 11:56 AM rasol does not have a clue about the use of Egyptian language. Most of that stuff is simply made up to promote his silly racist points. Most ancient people did not even think of themselves in a racial way as we might today. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 1337 Registered: May 2004	posted 16 April 2005 12:01 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: Most ancient people did not even think of themselves in a racial way as we might today. Thought Writes: The same can be said of Ancient Greece. The ancient Greeks did not see themselves as related to or linked racially with Northern Europeans. IP: Logged
Keins Member Posts: 61 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 16 April 2005 12:11 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: rasol does not have a clue about the use of Egyptian language. Most of that stuff is simply made up to promote his silly racist points. Most ancient people did not even think of themselves in a racial way as we might today. This is a totally silly point...I bet you can now go on to say that most ancient people did not have gays, did not have a form of porn, did not have religion, ect. Of course they could see the differences. What is different from ancient egyptain or other ancient peoples is the way they thought and acted about the differences. I bet you can go on to say that the greeks didn't see race either. Of course they did they just acted differently and had a different mindset about it and certain peoples. Stop trying to take the humanism out of AE talking silliness about "them not thinking or acknoweldging race." IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1408 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 16 April 2005 12:14 PM They didn't think about that at all Thoughtless. Nor did the Celts and the Danes look at each other in a racial way. the concept of 'a European' did not exist at the time. If you walked into the academy in 300 BC nobody is going to refer to themselves by saying, "I'm a European." The world was not nearly as small as it is today. All of this racial jargon some of you guys are hung up on is fairly modern. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 1337 Registered: May 2004	posted 16 April 2005 12:44 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: They didn't think about that at all Thoughtless. Nor did the Celts and the Danes look at each other in a racial way. the concept of 'a European' did not exist at the time. Thought Writes: I agree, hence the term "Western Civilization" is a modern racial construct designed to represent an idea that didn't exist during the "Classical" period. Thought Posts: Webster's Dictionary - Western: "Of, relating to, or characteristic of Europe.." IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1408 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 16 April 2005 12:52 PM no goofey...it exists NOW....we put it together when we came to understand the flow of history and how all the pieces fit together. The first classical Greek did not say "well, lets create western civilization." You guys are so hung up on this racial ideology that this stuff just goes right over your head. History is not racial, it is cultural and economic. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 1337 Registered: May 2004	posted 16 April 2005 01:07 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: ...it exists NOW....we put it together Thought Writes: We can all agree that this concept exists now. We can also agree that Europeans, specifically north western Europeans formulated this theory. quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: History is not racial, it is cultural and economic Thought Writes: I agree, which is why I stated earlier that the term "Western Civilization" is actually a racially designed misnomer for the culture(S) that developed around the eastern end of the Mediterranean. Culturally and economically the ideas and technologies flowed to north-west Europe via the Romans and Sub-Saharan African via the Arabs. Europeans and Africans both share in this common heritage. This is obvious when you compare the historical trajectories of Africa and Europe to the pre-colonial America's or to a lesser extent East Asia. quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: The first classical Greek did not say "well, lets create western civilization." Thought Writes: I agree. In fact the ancient Greeks stated that many of their cultural markers derive from NE Africa and SW Asia. They distanced themselves from northern Europeans. IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1408 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 16 April 2005 01:28 PM Thoughtless, you are as full of S--- as a christmas turkey. Racism has so absorbed you that you have become a complete fool. If I reached the point where you are now at I believe I would commit suicide. Every post you put on this board deals with race in one way or the other. I have no earthly idea what you are trying to acomplish but I can tell you that you are going nowhere and wasting your time. IP: Logged
Thought2 Member Posts: 1337 Registered: May 2004	posted 16 April 2005 01:34 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: Thoughtless, you are as full of S--- as a christmas turkey. Racism has so absorbed you that you have become a complete fool. If I reached the point where you are now at I believe I would commit suicide. Every post you put on this board deals with race in one way or the other. I have no earthly idea what you are trying to acomplish but I can tell you that you are going nowhere and wasting your time. Thought Writes: I note that you did not address the substance of my post. You merly resorted to a smear tactic as a form of debate. I reiterate, the term "Western Civilization" is a racial misnomer for the ideas and technologies developed in the eastern Mediterranean. This region has been thr cross-roads of Asia, Africa and Europe since the neolithic period. NW Europeans have no special relationship with this region or the knowledge that came out of it. It was only during the colonial period that NW Europeans created a racial construct known as "Western Civilization" to generate a special place for themselves in relation to the social development in this region. IP: Logged
windstorm2005 Junior Member Posts: 30 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 16 April 2005 01:41 PM quote: I reiterate, the term "Western Civilization" is a racial misnomer for the ideas and technologies developed in the eastern Mediterranean. This region has been thr cross-roads of Asia, Africa and Europe since the neolithic period. NW Europeans have no special relationship with this region or the knowledge that came out of it. It was only during the colonial period that NW Europeans created a racial construct known as "Western Civilization" to generate a special place for themselves in relation to the social development in this region. yup. Good post, thought. IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 1408 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 16 April 2005 01:51 PM and you are an idiot. Why get on the internet and make a complete fool out of yourself. Nobody believes that crap and you know it. Let me adress your stupid question Classical Greece got almost nothing from Egypt. Only a few radical non scholars would contend that it does. Every major historian for the past five hundred years is wrong and you are right? You need to get your thinking worked out before you simply flush your likfe down the drain and acomplish nothing. IP: Logged
HERU Member Posts: 174 Registered: Dec 2004	posted 16 April 2005 04:32 PM Horemheb, give it a rest. Not a soul takes you seriously on ANY topic. IP: Logged

This topic is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 All times are GMT (+2)	next newest topic \| next oldest topic
Administrative Options: Close Topic \| Archive/Move \| Delete Topic
	Hop to:

Contact Us | EgyptSearch!