posted 14 November 2004 08:45 PM            

quote:

---

supercar:
...supposed to be your argument for North African Berbers not being black, but being more related to (inferred) homogenous "North Easterners", which your studies again fall short of vindicating.

---

North African Berbers were never black. Stop making things up. Take the people of the Canary Islands who probably were of Moroccan Berber origin. The Spaniards said themselves that they weren't black.

quote:

---

supercar:
...cultures which you still haven't pointed out, and the genetics which is used in a flawed manner to prove that Ethiopians aren't black Africans, because the reality is that Ethiopians do indeed have strong affinities with other Sub-Saharan Africans in their neighborhood. Conclusion: Ethiopians are black Africans, and your studies don't suggest otherwise.

---

quote:

---

supercar:
...actually in no way proves your fallacious claim that the population remained the same, throughout the years.

---

Almost the same… Do you really think that a big population change took place which genetic studies failed to detect?

quote:

---

supercar:
...which is actually supposed to support your ideology of Ethiopians not being black Africans, in which case your studies fall short of disproving.

---

They are Africans but still they've more ties with Yemenis than with other Africans.

quote:

---

supercar:
Your inability to make sense, or prove that you aren't racist, or discuss in a civilized manner, or stick with points relevant to the subject matter and issues raised.

---

I am racist? No, you are. You take Africa as synonymous to black.

quote:

---

rasol wrote:
Search "Nubia" on this site, this has been covered thuroughly in several threads, thx.

---

posted 14 November 2004 09:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orionix:
North African Berbers were never black.

---

Thought Writes:

posted 14 November 2004 09:13 PM            

quote:

---

North African Berbers were never black.

---

quote:

---

I'm not saying there aren't black Berbers in North Africa

---

and on it goes......

posted 14 November 2004 09:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

The Siwa are Berber. Do you consider any of them Black?

---

Yes, there are black Berbers. However i don't think the original ones were.

The Haratin are also black. However Berber groups like the Rif, Kabyle, Shawia, Shluh, and Beraber are predominantly non-black

posted 14 November 2004 09:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Orionix wrote:
and on it goes......

---

posted 14 November 2004 09:34 PM            

quote:

---

Orionix:
North African Berbers were never black. Stop making things up. Take the people of the Canary Islands who probably were of Moroccan Berber origin. The Spaniards said themselves that they weren't black.

---

Back tracking again. This is what you said earlier:

"I'm not saying there aren't black Berbers in North Africa but most are not black like you imagine."

That there were never black Berbers, is the figment of your imagination. Once again, you are equating Berber to “ethnicity”.

quote:

---

Orionix:
Ok so you point out the so-called "strong affinities" Ethiopians have with other SS Africans.

---

How about them being black Africans? Doesn't your earlier reference make an exemplification of this?

Haplotype XI [very important in Ethiopia] also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) (Lower Nubia and Upper Egypt) compared to the north (11.7% in A)

quote:

---

Orionix:
Almost the same… Do you really think that a big population change took place which genetic studies failed to detect?

---

Yes, big population changes took place. Different foreign invaders arrived at different time frames. There was a time, when Kemetians didn’t have European contact.

quote:

---

Orionix:
They are Africans but still they've more ties with Yemenis than with other Africans.

---

quote:

---

Orionix:
I am racist? No, you are. You take Africa as synonymous to black.

---

posted 14 November 2004 10:18 PM            

quote:

---

supercar:
Back tracking again. This is what you said earlier:
"I'm not saying there aren't black Berbers in North Africa but most are not black like you imagine."
That there were never black Berbers, is the figment of your imagination. Once again, you are equating Berber to “ethnicity”.

---

quote:

---

supercar:
Haplotype XI [very important in Ethiopia] also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) (Lower Nubia and Upper Egypt) compared to the north (11.7% in A).

---

quote:

---

supercar:
Yes, big population changes took place. Different foreign invaders arrived at different time frames. There was a time, when Kemetians didn’t have European contact.

---

quote:

---

supercar:
What are these “more” ties? Still waiting for the answer.

---

quote:

---

supercar:
A figment of your imagination. Never said Africa was synonymous with “black”, but stated facts, such as Upper Egyptians being mainly black Africans, and Ethiopians being black Africans. Majority of Africa’s populations are black Africans; not a euphemism, but a reality!

---

posted 14 November 2004 10:37 PM            

quote:

---

Haplotype XI is not very common in Ethiopia. Please cite the whole study which says that. I think you are confusing IX (which is a SS haplotype) with haplotype XI. They are not the same haplotypes.

---

Your reference, not mine. Underlines your confusion, not mine.

quote:

---

Orionix:
Big population changes? Do you really believe that **** ? .

---

YES.

quote:

---

Orionix:
Please answer my question first…

---

Done. On the other hand, still waiting for your answer.

quote:

---

Orionix:
Ethiopians are half black/half non-black (mixed ancestry).

---

posted 14 November 2004 11:07 PM            

quote:

---

supercar:

Your reference, not mine. Underlines your confusion, not mine.

---

Man please be serious. You confused 2 different Y-haplotypes.

quote:

---

supercar:

YES.

---

Prove it…

I agreed with you that ancient Upper Egyptians are really linked to east Africa or the Sahara. But I have the feeling that you're exaggerating.

quote:

---

supercar:
Done. On the other hand, still waiting for your answer.

---

And I answered. Present-day Ethiopians are really half black/half non-black. Thus they are African.

quote:

---

supercar:
Ethiopia is a black African sub-Saharan country, and nothing you‘ve shown so far proves otherwise. You can join the real world, or live in a wonderland. Your choice.

---

Actually Ethiopia is the horn of Africa.

And like I said before, in the Neolithic black people migrated outside of Africa to Southern Arabia, mixed with the local population and than returned back to eastern Africa.

These people left their genetic imprint on the present-day population.

Remember populations in the past were just a few (just a few hundred thousands) but they reproduced what they were. If you say that Neolithic Africa was darker than it is today you have a point.

posted 15 November 2004 12:06 AM            

quote:

---

Orionix:
Man please be serious. You confused 2 different Y-haplotypes.

---

You have a habit of presenting material, and then descend into an amnesia. We are also familiar with you inability to comprehend your own references, and there is nothing at this point, to suggest that this will change anytime soon.

quote:

---

Orionix;
Prove it…

---

Simple. The influx of the Hyksos, then Persians, the Greek came in later, followed by the Romans, Arab tribes, Turks, British, French, other the more recent immigrants from various nations.

quote:

---

Orionix:
And I answered. Present-day Ethiopians are really half black/half non-black. Thus they are African.

---

Another notoriety; dodging questions. This is your answer to the question, demanding your presentation of the specifics of what you call “more” cultural ties that Ethiopians have with the Yemeni.

quote:

---

Orionix:
Actually Ethiopia is the horn of Africa.

---

…and therefore not in Sub-Saharan Africa?
You need to start familiarizing yourself with what Africa looks like on the map, and details of its geography. This goes for its people.

I reiterate, none of your plagiarized studies change the fact that Ethiopia is a black dominated Sub-Saharan country.

posted 15 November 2004 07:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

The Siwa are Berber. Do you consider any of them Black?

---

People in Siwa Egypt

posted 15 November 2004 07:49 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orionix:
[QUOTE]supercar:
Back tracking again. This is what you said earlier:
"I'm not saying there aren't black Berbers in North Africa but most are not black like you imagine."
That there were never black Berbers, is the figment of your imagination. Once again, you are equating Berber to “ethnicity”.

---

Africa's population is about 85% black and 15% non-black. Most North Africans are not black and Ethiopians are half black/half non-black (mixed ancestry).[/QUOTE]

Not all ethiopians.

posted 15 November 2004 12:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by supercar:

You have a habit of presenting material, and then descend into an amnesia. We are also familiar with you inability to comprehend your own references, and there is nothing at this point, to suggest that this will change anytime soon.

---

You confused 2 different haplotypes so you are in no position to talk. Haplotype XI and haplotype IX are not the same haplotype. Haplotype XI is the most common in Euroasia.

quote:

---

supercar:

Simple. The influx of the Hyksos, then Persians, the Greek came in later, followed by the Romans, Arab tribes, Turks, British, French, other the more recent immigrants from various nations.

---

But outsiders merely concentrate in Lower Egypt. Lower Egypt was never black anyway.

The European minority and other foreigners are merely constrated in the big towns like Cairo and Alexandria.

The people of Upper Egypt remained predominantly the same.

The myth of a much darker Egypt must be put to rest.

quote:

---

supercar:
Another notoriety; dodging questions. This is your answer to the question, demanding your presentation of the specifics of what you call “more” cultural ties that Ethiopians have with the Yemeni.

---

Most Ethiopians are half African/half non-African in ancestry. Stop looking for hairs in eggs. You see for yourself it brings you nowhere.

quote:

---

supercar:
…and therefore not in Sub-Saharan Africa?
You need to start familiarizing yourself with what Africa looks like on the map, and details of its geography. This goes for its people.

---

Look in the map where Ethiopia is located. The 4 countries of the horn of Africa are: Eritrea, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Somalia.
The horn is not regarded to sub-Saharan Africa.

As a whole the name Africa was not synonymous to black.

In antiquity, the Greeks are said to have called the continent Libya and the Romans to have called it Africa, perhaps from the Latin aprica (“sunny”) or the Greek aphrike (“without cold”). The name Africa, however, was chiefly applied to the northern coast of the continent, which was, in effect, regarded as a southern extension of Europe. The Romans, who for a time ruled the North African coast, are also said to have called the area south of their settlements Afriga, or the Land of the Afrigs—the name of a Berber community south of Carthage.

posted 15 November 2004 12:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Black is not a genotype and neither is non Black, you cannot use genetics to prove degrees of Black/non Blackness. Orionix latest irrelevant remarks like all the rest, are mere trolls. Most Ethiopians are Black Africans.

---

You are doing it and criticize me. You are a troll.

Most Ethiopians are just of mixed ancestry.

posted 15 November 2004 01:12 PM            

quote:

---

The horn is not regarded to sub-Saharan Africa.

---

Well this is a new idiocy (the rest of your post merely repeated old idiocies), so I will correct it:

List of sub saharan African countries:

Angola
Benin
Botswana
Burkina Faso
Burundi
Cameroon
Cape Verde
Central African Republic
Chad
Comoros
Congo (Brazzaville)
Congo (Democratic Republic)
Côte d'Ivoire
Djibouti
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
The Gambia
Ghana
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Kenya
Lesotho
Liberia Madagascar
Malawi
Mali
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mozambique
Namibia
Niger
Nigeria
Réunion
Rwanda
Sao Tome and Principe
Senegal
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Somalia
South Africa
Sudan
Swaziland
Tanzania
Togo
Uganda
Western Sahara
Zambia
Zimbabwe

posted 15 November 2004 01:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Most Europeans are of mixed ancestry. Your posts function as the highest form of self criticism.

---

Most Europeans have little ancestry outside Europe since the Neolithic.

posted 15 November 2004 01:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Neolithic Europe:

It is particularly important to make it quite clear (particularly to Neo-Nazis like "Refuting Racial Myths") that this group (L3) is specific to sub-Saharan Africa, since it is present in a [b]great deal of the European populations including the Finns [Passarino et al. (2002) even found L2 lineages in a Norwegian sample, so the presence of African markers introduced in Nordic populations during the Neolithic shouldn't be a surprise]. - Quintana-Murci et al. 1999.[/B]

---

True. Europeans have some African ancestry from the Neolithic. The rest is more recent.

The black admixture was mainly detected in southern Europeans. However i have to admit that the amount is still little.

posted 15 November 2004 06:33 PM            

quote:

---

Orionix:
You confused 2 different haplotypes so you are in no position to talk. Haplotype XI and haplotype IX are not the same haplotype. Haplotype XI is the most common in Euroasia.

---

At first I maintained you were suffering from amnesia, but I am now certain you are simply absent minded. It is your own plagiarized source that you are now contradicting. It has nothing to do with what I said; just a figment of your imagination. You are criticizing your own sources. If there is anyone here, who is psychologically messed up, it is you: The least you can do, is stay consistent with your plagiarized material, and understand them.

quote:

---

Orionix:
But outsiders merely concentrate in Lower Egypt. Lower Egypt was never black anyway.
The European minority and other foreigners are merely constrated in the big towns like Cairo and Alexandria.

---

Outsiders came to lower Egypt, of course. It is you who is in denial of population changes. Lower Egyptians certainly had black populations, and still do; just not as much as that of the southern portion.

quote:

---

Orionix:
The myth of a much darker Egypt must be put to rest.

---

What we need to put to rest, is your crackpot science.

quote:

---

Orionix:
Most Ethiopians are half African/half non-African in ancestry. Stop looking for hairs in eggs. You see for yourself it brings you nowhere.

---

Only a mentally recessed individual would look at an Ethiopian, and come to such a foolish and unfounded conclusion. This is what you said earlier:

Orionix: “And like I said before, in the Neolithic black people migrated outside of Africa to Southern Arabia, mixed with the local population and than returned back to eastern Africa. These people left their genetic imprint on the present-day population.”

Your logic is that, the entire populations of East Africans left their eastern African home region empty, only to go to Southern Arabia to have intercourses, and come back to east Africa with their mulatto babies. As result, All Ethiopians are now half-castes. You are one messed up dude. Not only is this notion ludicrous, it is in fact not even worthy of the title “crackpot” science. It is insanity.
There is no such thing as a pure race, and “black” is strictly a phenotype with some minor biological importance to it. So you are not making any sense at all. Going by your logic, all humans must be half-castes of some sort.

quote:

---

Orionix:
Stop looking for hairs in eggs.

---

You are right, that would be the wrong place to look for hairs; perhaps I should look for them in your brains. These hairs must be affecting your thinking.

quote:

---

Orionix:
Look in the map where Ethiopia is located. The 4 countries of the horn of Africa are: Eritrea, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Somalia.
The horn is not regarded to sub-Saharan Africa.

---

When you have an idea of what Africa looks like, then maybe you can contemplate about discussing anything about Africa. I am not sure that even a second grader doesn’t have better knowledge of world geography than you do.

quote:

---

Orionix:
The black admixture was mainly detected in southern Europeans. However i have to admit that the amount is still little.

---

So is that of the Ethiopians, of any foreign admixture. Ethiopia, is a multi-ethnic country with the Oromo majority, and yet you treat it like one homogenous society. Facts run contrary to your phantasm, but I say, if spinning makes you feel better, then by all means, do continue.

posted 15 November 2004 08:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orionix:
Look in the map where Ethiopia is located. The 4 countries of the horn of Africa are: Eritrea, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Somalia.
The horn is not regarded to sub-Saharan Africa.

---

We constantly find this sort of entrenched thinking revealing itself. It's only when discussing Africa that this kind of thing happens:

North Africa => Not black ALTHOUGH some are black;
Sub-Saharan Africa => Truly black BUT
Horn of Africa is NOT Sub-Sahara and THUS half-black;
ALSO East Africa => Not truly black...

Therefore in search of the "black" person this thinking goes on forever.

Africa seems to be made up of a bunch of islands that float away from each other and re-connect depending on the situation.

A classic example of fallacious arguments:
i) Argument by moving goalpost (raising the bar for who is "black")
ii)Argument ad nauseam (repetition without thinking through and a total disregard for questions raised)
iii)A combination of both i) and ii) that goes on and on....

I wonder if we could apply the same criteria to the other peoples, e.g. who is the true "white" or the true "yellow" person? Why is it that African people are the only people whose authenticity is questioned all the time?

posted 15 November 2004 08:46 PM            

* Europe is mixed both genetically and phenotypically with distinct types.

* The only 'whites' are the fair skinned, fair haired, fair eyed; 'Nordics'

* White people also constitute a separate genotype of peoples who have recessive genes as their 'dominent', which is highly unusual in nature.

* The majority of southern Europe is not white and distinct for the white north.

* Melanin "deficient" true-whites of Europe are a dwinding minority.

Of course, we are being facetious, however some Nordic scientists are quite serious:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2284783.stm

posted 15 November 2004 08:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orionix:
Yes, there are black Berbers. However i don't think the original ones were.

---

Thought Writes:

1) Do you believe that Berber is a part of the Afro-Asiatic language FAMILY?

2) Do you believe that this language FAMILY can be traced back to the Horn of Africa area?

3) Do you believe that the indigenous people in the Horn of Africa were "Black"?

posted 15 November 2004 09:13 PM            

quote:

---

supercar:
At first I maintained you were suffering from amnesia, but I am now certain you are simply absent minded. It is your own plagiarized source that you are now contradicting. It has nothing to do with what I said; just a figment of your imagination. You are criticizing your own sources. If there is anyone here, who is psychologically messed up, it is you: The least you can do, is stay consistent with your plagiarized material, and understand them.

---

quote:

---

supercar:
Outsiders came to Lower Egypt, of course. It is you who is in denial of population changes. Lower Egyptians certainly had black populations, and still do; just not as much as that of the southern portion.

---

quote:

---

supercar:
What we need to put to rest, is your crackpot science.

---

quote:

---

supercar: Only a mentally recessed individual would look at an Ethiopian, and come to such a foolish and unfounded conclusion. This is what you said earlier

---

quote:

---

supercar:
Your logic is that, the entire populations of East Africans left their eastern African home region empty, only to go to Southern Arabia to have intercourses, and come back to east Africa with their mulatto babies. As result, All Ethiopians are now half-castes.

---

quote:

---

supercar:
You are one messed up dude. Not only is this notion ludicrous, it is in fact not even worthy of the title “crackpot” science. It is insanity.

---

quote:

---

supercar:
There is no such thing as a pure race, and “black” is strictly a phenotype with some minor biological importance to it. So you are not making any sense at all. Going by your logic, all humans must be half-castes of some sort.

---

quote:

---

supercar:
You are right, that would be the wrong place to look for hairs; perhaps I should look for them in your brains. These hairs must be affecting your thinking.

---

quote:

---

supercar:
When you have an idea of what Africa looks like, then maybe you can contemplate about discussing anything about Africa. I am not sure that even a second grader doesn’t have better knowledge of world geography than you do.

---

posted 15 November 2004 09:34 PM            

Orionix also posted: Haplotype XI is not very common in Ethiopia. Please cite the whole study which says that.

Orionix: Supercar is correct, you are the one who posted on Haplotype XI...Supercar is cutting and pasting from 'your' post.

Also:Thought wrote: Sight Writes:
[i]Haplotype V (E-M81) XI (E-M78) and IV (E-M2) constitute the PN2 Clade which is GROUP III. Your confusing terminology specific to this paper with GENERAL terminology. The PN2 clade is of Sub-Saharan origin. E-M81 is found in its highest frequency within Berber speaking populations. E-M78 is found in its highest frequency among Somali's, Oromo and Borano of Kenya. A branch of E-M78 spread out to the Near east and Europe during the early Holocene. E-M2 is found in its high frequncis in Senegal, Upper Egypt and Nubia and Central Africa.

You have also contradicted yourself by making other dumb statements, retracting them, then making them again. I notice this happens especially when the conflicting remarks are from different threads.

It's as if you don't know what 'you' posted in other threads.

For example, the study you posted on Haplotype XI in Ethiopia was from the Yemen thread, yet you seem completely clueless about it.

Conclusion:

You are either suffering from acute schizophrenia, or different individuals are using the Orionix alias.

I hope for your sake, that the later is the case. But either way, you need help.

posted 15 November 2004 09:37 PM            

{The only mentally retarded guy is you who thinks Egyptians were predominantly black. Blacks had a part in Egypt but they were not the majority of the population.}

Thought writes:

The anthropological data indicate continuity in physical traits from the Badarian period to the New Kingdom. Badarians have been linked in a physical sense with other Black/Tropical Africans.

{Ethiopians, Somalis, Eritreans, Djiboutis and southern Arabians all fucked each other long enough since 10,000 years ago.]

Sight Writes:

The above statement is incoherent, but there is no evidence linking Southern Arabians with Horn of Africa populations circa 8,000 B.C. Please post a study that indicates this claim.

{You can't argue with geneticists. Molecular population genetics (what is used today) is real science.}

Sight writes:

And genetics indicate that the mtDNA branch M originated in east Africa, as did E3b.

{ They were always brown Africans, at least since the last 5,000 years.}

Sight Writes:

So they were predominantly Brown skin people?

{And this comes from the same retard who thinks blacks predominated Egypt. All tomb paintings I've seen clearly shut you down.}

{Africa is a continent, look a race, culture or phenotype. Africans are more diverse than Asians and Europeans; therefore I can say that most ancient Egyptians were not black.}

Sight Writes:

posted 15 November 2004 09:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by YuhiVII:
We constantly find this sort of entrenched thinking revealing itself. It's only when discussing Africa that this kind of thing happens:

North Africa => Not black ALTHOUGH some are black;
Sub-Saharan Africa => Truly black BUT
Horn of Africa is NOT Sub-Sahara and THUS half-black;
ALSO East Africa => Not truly black...

---

This is why i say race is in the eye of the beholder.

Race is a very cruel concept to African biodiversity, especially in America where you are either black or white. So going by this definitions all Africans are from black race.

In would say that:

1. North Africans: Dominantly brown people.

2. Ethiopians/Somalis: Half dark brown/half brown.

3. Sub-Saharans: Dominantly dark brown people.

posted 15 November 2004 09:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Conclusion:

You are either suffering from acute schizophrenia, or different individuals are using the Orionix alias.

I hope for your sake, that the later is the case. [b]But either way, you need help.

---

No one is else is using my name.

I think you are suffering from split personality disorder because many times i've seen you appear under different names. And yes i'm almost sure it is you.

One thing is for sure, you are a very sick, mentally retarted, Afrocentric, race-obsessed individual son of a bitch.

posted 15 November 2004 09:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orionix:
This is why i say race is in the eye of the beholder.

Race is a very cruel concept to African biodiversity, especially in America where you are either black or white. So going by this definitions all Africans are from black race.

In would say that:

1. North Africans: Dominantly brown people.

2. Ethiopians/Somalis: Half dark brown/half brown.

3. Sub-Saharans: Dominantly dark brown people.

---

Sight Writes;

If anyone is interested in a SCIENTIFIC analysis of global skin pigmentation levels please go here:
http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1440.html

Sight Writes:

posted 15 November 2004 10:14 PM            

quote:

---

[b]Originally posted by rasol:
Conclusion:
You are either suffering from acute schizophrenia, or different individuals are using the Orionix alias.

---

quote:

---

I think you are suffering from split personality disorder because many times i've seen you appear under different names.

---

Btw: are you still claiming the Horn of Africa is not a part of Sub Saharan Africa, or are you denying ever saying such?

Are you still claiming that Berbers are never Black (?) or are you denying ever saying so?

posted 15 November 2004 10:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thought2:
The Global map of skin pigmentation levels indicates that Horn of Africa populations have melanin levels similar to most other Sub-Saharan Africans.

---

If you look at this map you can see that Egyptians have less skin pigmentation than sub-Saharans or east Africans.

However this map does not consider other factors such as migrations.

I think this table represents the 36 most visible skin tones:

So i guess according to you, people whose skin color is 28 are already considered black, right?

posted 15 November 2004 10:24 PM            

So tell us; how many of those colors do you consider to be white?

posted 15 November 2004 10:32 PM            

Thought writes:

Indeed the Egyptians are shown as being less pigmented than Sub-Saharan (East Africa is in Sub-Saharan Africa) Africans. And yes, this map does not consider the fact that the Arab conquests changed the phenotype of the Dynastic Egyptians who were of Holocene Sub-Saharan origin.

Thought Posts:
www.healthanddna.com/JreportY.pdf

posted 15 November 2004 10:46 PM            

quote:

---

supercar:

Vulgarity can't help Orionix. You posted on Haplotype XI in Ethiopia. Don't you remember? Go back and search the relevant thread' Then ask yourself objectively, what your inability to remember your own past actions says about your mental health.

---

Well that's all that you deserved.
And you're a liar. I didn't post this study. It was someone else here. Haplotype XI is not so common in Ethiopia compared to Eurasia.

What I said is that Y-chromosome E3b is east African in origin and that mtDNA haplotype L can be found in high frequencies throughout Africa.

quote:

---

supercar:

Btw: are you still claiming the Horn of Africa is not a part of Sub Saharan Africa, or are you denying ever saying such

---

The Horn of Africa is an extension of land between the Indian Ocean and the Gulf of Aden, is occupied by Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia, and Djibouti, whose cultures have been linked throughout their long history.

Geneticists consider the horn of Africa as a separate entity from other parts of Africa then so do I. The horn has always served as a corridor for migrations out and back to Africa. This is the case since the Neolithic.

quote:

---

supercar:
Are you still claiming that Berbers are never Black (?) or are you denying ever saying so?

---

posted 15 November 2004 10:56 PM            

quote:

---

Are you still claiming that Berbers are never Black (?) or are you denying ever saying so?

---

quote:

---

No, I didn't say that.

---

quote:

---

Orionix
Member
Posts: 234
Registered: Oct 2004
posted 13 November 2004 02:19 AM
The Berbers of North Africa had never been black Africans

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Is it coming back to you now? Schizophrenia is rough, I know. Do I need to link you to it, with page and post number as well?

posted 15 November 2004 10:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought writes:

Indeed the Egyptians are shown as being less pigmented than Sub-Saharan (East Africa is in Sub-Saharan Africa) Africans. And yes, this map does not consider the fact that the Arab conquests changed the phenotype of the Dynastic Egyptians who were of Holocene Sub-Saharan origin.

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So according to the 36-tone chromatic scale what color do you think the ancient Egyptians were before the Middle Kingdom?

I think the Arabs didn't change much.

The ancient Egyptians were always predominantly brown Africans.

posted 15 November 2004 11:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
The Greeks and Romans (italians) appear to be about a 14 dark on the "white" scale.

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posted 15 November 2004 11:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Orionix:
And the predyanstic Egyptians?

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They did not refer to themselves as Kememu (black people), nor were they referred to as such, by the Ancient Greeks and Hebrews for no reason. It was just common sense. There are practically more Ancient Greek references to Black Egyptians than there are to white Greeks, and that's saying something...dark as the Greeks are already. lol.

My but how much energy, desparation and lies you invest in denying the obvious.

You do realise that for most of us, your "material" is banal, it's only your 'personality' that is keeping us amused. (what will he try next?)

Ok, some of us are amused.

posted 15 November 2004 11:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
Observing Thoughts very helpful map, should make it clear that in terms of color phenotype, it is Yemen that clusters with Africa; not the other way around.Yemen is much darker than any other part of the so called Near East.

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True and genetically they don't even cluster with other Near Easterns (like Omanis for example).

posted 15 November 2004 11:25 PM            

This is why we found your Yemen argument unexicting. Using Yemen to "pull" East Africa into the 'non-existant' (politically contrived) Near East...it's like trying to empty the ocean into your canoe.

You can't always make Yemen-aide out of Yemen you know. (rimshot)

posted 15 November 2004 11:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
Well they are not alive are they so we can't be certain, however they have been characterised as "supra tropically adapted"; which means they must have been very dark.

They did not refer to themselves as Kememu (black people), nor were they referred to as such, by the Ancient Greeks and Hebrews for no reason. It was just common sense. There are practically more Ancient Greek references to Black Egyptians than there are to white Greeks, and that's saying something...dark as the Greeks are already. lol.

My but how much energy, desparation and lies you invest in denying the obvious.

You do realise that for most of us, your "material" is banal, it's only your 'personality' that is keeping us amused. (what will he try next?)

Ok, some of us are amused.

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So you mean to say that they looked like what we today call "jet black" or "dark as night" (35-36 in my scale), though i don't use this kind of description.

Most thomb paintings i've seen clearly show the Egyptians as deep brown in complexion unless some white devils came along and re-painted most of them with brown tint.

posted 15 November 2004 11:42 PM            

Sight Writes:

Not true! Geneticists now recognize that Central, East (including the Horn), North and West Africans are linked by the PN2 Clade.

A Clade is all descendents of any given species. A single whole BRANCH of a phylogeny.

A Phylogeny is an evolutionary tree showing the inferred relationships of descent and COMMON ancestry of any given group.

Hence East Africans are one BRANCH of the COMMON PN2 genetic family (clade).