posted 12 December 2004 01:36 PM            

Answer me this,

True or False(not an open ended question)

- Nubians typically have dark brown to black skin

posted 12 December 2004 01:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

Qyite to the contray I have shown a few.

If you refuse to comprehend the examples of groups of Africans classifying other groups of Africans as either red or black in distinction to themselves in turn as either red or black thats your choice. You have been shown but you do not have to accept what you have been shown.

---

I don't need examples. I'm well aware of African people describing themselves as "reds". I live in Maryland and we have lots of Ethiopians here.

posted 12 December 2004 01:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ABAZA:
[B]Yes, why would a group of people call themselves Blacks,

---

quote:

---

some were almost White

---

they wished to represent the inhabitants of Egypt and those of foreign lands. Thus we have before our eyes the image of the various races of man known to the Egyptians... the last one is whatwe call flesh-colored, a white skin of the most delicate shade, a nose straight or slightly arched, blue eyes, blond or reddish beard,he is called Tamhou

posted 12 December 2004 01:48 PM            

If your only interests in Ancient Egypt lie in whether you are related to them in skin colour then I question whether any of you should even advertise yourselves as being interested in the subject. I don't care if the Egyptians were black, or white. I don't care if they are related to me- the amount of melanin in their epidermis does not in the least concern me.

Wally, your opening post just proves to me that you are just that- a Wally. There are multiple ways to translate any word in Egyptian Hieroglyphic. It is an incredibly vague language, and one should certainly not read as deeply as you are into a single seldom used word.

Furthermore, the feminine plural is "wt", not "t", and even with adjectival endings (even though Kmt is a noun), it could still be translated as meaning "black" singular. On top of that, Kemet is used to refer to the place, not the peoples, and you have completely ignored the inclusion of 049.

If that isn't enough, the adjective "kem" is used to describe the colour of not just pitch black, but also mud and soil (See Papyrus of Ipuwer for examples). As soil can range in colour from light tan to dark black, the word "kem" by no means limits the object to which it refers in colour to a dark black. It is soil-coloured. Egyptian soil, as you should know, can be found in all shades of brown.

posted 12 December 2004 01:55 PM            

I had a chance to ask some of friends about their impression of the Ancient Egyptians, and without a hesitation, they said that the A/E's were not Black Africans. }

Thought Writes:

posted 12 December 2004 01:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

Repeat: Kemet does not mean black people. It is a noun/adj. Black = any black thing, per Budge.

---

It seems you're moving the goal posts again. My original question had to do with why Kemet would mean "black people" or "land of he blacks". Now we are down to Kemet simply meaning "any black thing". I'm not sure if this is progress but I'm glad the discussion is making you think.

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

You just just answered that question yourself, and on your own terms. However, you need to check yourself on the use of the word "nubian", as that is the term that was not ever used to describe Kememu.

---

"Nubian" is a blanket term. There are too many ethnic groups to name each one individually. I don't need to be schooled on the Nubians and you know this from my posts on the topic in the past.

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

Or, to throw your nonsense back in your face: Osirus, Isis, Narmer and the Khentu shown conquering the delta on the Narmer palette were 'ALL' of 'Nubian ancestry.'

---

Isis, and Osiris never existed. I agree with you on Narmer...

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

Kemet...is largey of Nubian ancestry.

---

I question the truth in that statement. While there is cultural continuity between Nubians and pre-dynastic Egyptians, each nation somehow developed similar but distinct languages and cultures.

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

With t hat out of the way, perhaps you can explain what this has to do with questioning the meaning of the word kem?

---

I thought you would never ask. For one, I'm searching for an answer on whether the ancient Egyptians ever called any group of Nubians Kemut or Kammau. Since you know so much about Nubians maybe you have an answer...

posted 12 December 2004 01:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
[QUOTE]If you aren't significantly shorter than most other people around you it wouldn't make sense for you to be called shorty. There would have to be a symbolic or inner meaning that outsiders may not understand.

---

quote:

---

It does exist in the US due in part to the fact that natural blondes are not as common here...

---

There is nothing odd in the way that Kemetians used the word black.

Neo, everthing you know is not all there is to know. Your questions reflect an extremely myopic [wst] view of the world, which you are trying to force impose back onto km.t. In your world view, white and the litany of references to it are presumed to be 'natural' and go without questioning.

Blackness on the other hand is so unfathamable to you, that you cannot even conceive of it outside of the blinders of [wst] racism as an 'apositive self reference'

posted 12 December 2004 01:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Psusennes I:
For goodness sakes! I pity you if all you care about is the consequesnce of one word which will never be fully understood.

If your only interests in Ancient Egypt lie in whether you are related to them in skin colour then I question whether any of you should even advertise yourselves as being interested in the subject. I don't care if the Egyptians were black, or white. I don't care if they are related to me- the amount of melanin in their epidermis does not in the least concern me.

---

posted 12 December 2004 01:58 PM            

quote:

---

Supercar -
Answer me this,
True or False(not an open ended question)
- Nubians typically have dark brown to black skin

---

False; actual literal black skin is rare, as is literal white skin.

And what's a Nubian, exactly?

posted 12 December 2004 02:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ABAZA:

---

posted 12 December 2004 02:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Psusennes I:
For goodness sakes! I pity you if all you care about is the consequesnce of one word which will never be fully understood.

If your only interests in Ancient Egypt lie in whether you are related to them in skin colour then I question whether any of you should even advertise yourselves as being interested in the subject. I don't care if the Egyptians were black, or white. I don't care if they are related to me- the amount of melanin in their epidermis does not in the least concern me.

---

quote:

---

THANK YOU

---

posted 12 December 2004 02:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Psusennes I:
For goodness sakes! I pity you if all you care about is the consequesnce of one word which will never be fully understood.

If your only interests in Ancient Egypt lie in whether you are related to them in skin colour then I question whether any of you should even advertise yourselves as being interested in the subject. I don't care if the Egyptians were black, or white. I don't care if they are related to me- the amount of melanin in their epidermis does not in the least concern me.

Wally, your opening post just proves to me that you are just that- a Wally. There are multiple ways to translate any word in Egyptian Hieroglyphic. It is an incredibly vague language, and one should certainly not read as deeply as you are into a single seldom used word.

Furthermore, the feminine plural is "wt", not "t", and even with adjectival endings (even though Kmt is a noun), it could still be translated as meaning "black" singular. On top of that, Kemet is used to refer to the place, not the peoples, and you have completely ignored the inclusion of 049.

If that isn't enough, the adjective "kem" is used to describe the colour of not just pitch black, but also mud and soil (See Papyrus of Ipuwer for examples). As soil can range in colour from light tan to dark black, the word "kem" by no means limits the object to which it refers in colour to a dark black. It is soil-coloured. Egyptian soil, as you should know, can be found in all shades of brown.

Your translation is flawed, your ideals are sick, and I question your authority.

---

----------------------

Thank God, we have a few More Reasonable People on Forum............

I second, Neo*Geo's opinion and that of other Objective Thinkers on this Panel.

Please, Let's Step out of this One Dimensional Afro-Centric Box and look at the Big Picture.....

posted 12 December 2004 02:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thought2:
{I think you have Turned the Tables on many of these Afro-Centric Psuedo_Historians, by pointing out the obvious.

I had a chance to ask some of friends about their impression of the Ancient Egyptians, and without a hesitation, they said that the A/E's were not Black Africans. }

Thought Writes:

Abaza the TROLLER is back! He continues to kae these wild statements without supporting evidence.

---

-------------------

What your're Afraid of is an Honest Debate....Let's Get Real and Debunk this Afro-Centric Thinking...Once and for All.

posted 12 December 2004 02:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
[QUOTE]THANK YOU

---

If that were true you would not be here reading this now (that goes for both of you).

I thought for a chnage I would give some of you the benefit of the doubt. I thought maybe we could have a discussion about the meaning of the term "kemet" without being disrespectful to each other or accusing people of being racists. I was wrong.

posted 12 December 2004 02:13 PM            

Thought Writes:

This is a ruse. The issue is not as SIMPLE as what skin color the Ancinet Egyptians had. The REAL issue the fact that Egyptology from its inception was/is rooted in a White Supremacist ideaology. Egypt was one of the earliest Complex Societies and had a definitive role in influencing Ancient Greece. Ancient Greece is viewed as the font of "Western Civilization". "Western Civilization" is a euphemism for White Culture. At the time that Egyptology was being concieved as a science "Western" nations were in the process of colonizing "people of color" all around the globe. The justification for this colonization process was that it was Manifest Destiny for Europeans to be saviors of the les civilized races. Hence the myth that Europeans were saviors and the fact that Egypt was an indigenous African civilization that influenced Greece were in contrast to each other. Over the years those who support this Western Myth have used ruse after ruse and foil after foil to stretch out the life-span of this falsehood. Virtually every ruse that they have used has been demolished, except two. One is to posit "Caucasoids" in East Africa during the Upper Paloelithic and the other is to try and sell us on a multi-racial Egypt. Both of these ruses are false as well. Egypt was peopled from Sub-Saharan East Africa after the early holocene.

posted 12 December 2004 02:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo*geo:
I don't need examples. I'm well aware of African people describing themselves as "reds". I live in Maryland and we have lots of Ethiopians here.

I will accept your cop-out as proof that you can't name a single nation or ethnic group to answer my question.

---

Look, even you have contradicted your own statement. <<I'm well aware of African people describing themselves as "reds".>>
Do you even comprehend what you yourself have just written, that the Amhara type
Ethiopians classify themselves as red in distinction to the Shangalla types?

Again you simply refuse to comprehend the ones I have already given. Your non response of me copping out does not excuse your inability to comprehend that
I have given groups from all over the continent who classify themselves as either red or black and some of their neighbors as the same or opposite.

Quote my post and anybody can show you the peoples I mentioned since you yourself refuse to see them.

You however can produce nothing from anywhere remotely resembling a statement like
"We African have never called ourselves either black or red. It was the white Europeans who introduced us to that concept."

posted 12 December 2004 02:14 PM            

quote:

---

It seems you're moving the goal posts again. My original question had to do with why Kemet would mean "black people" or "land of he blacks".

---

Nope the goal post is not moving. Rather the offical is explaining the same instructions over and over again and some of the players are not listening.

quote:

---

Now we are down to Kemet simply meaning "any black thing".

---

quote:

---

I'm not sure if this is progress but I'm glad the discussion is making you think.

---

posted 12 December 2004 02:17 PM            

quote:

---

Nubian" is a blanket term.

---

posted 12 December 2004 02:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Psusennes I:
Can I suggest that you just ban anyone who turns this forum into a racial battle-ground. Racial discrimination is illegal under both the E.U Human Rights bill and the U.S constitution, and surely you do not wish to home criminals?

---

Thought Writes:

posted 12 December 2004 02:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

Look, even you have contradicted your own statement. <<I'm well aware of African people describing themselves as "reds".>>
Do you even comprehend what you yourself have just written, that the Amhara type
Ethiopians classify themselves as red in distinction to the Shangalla types?

---

No, you just didn't answer the question. What other nations or ethnic groups NAME themselves as a NATION based on skin color?

Amhara doesn't mean "the red people" and Shangalla doesn't mean "the black people". The fact that both "red" and "black" people exist within the same nation proves my point even further.

posted 12 December 2004 02:21 PM            

quote:

---

Isis, and Osiris never existed. I agree with you on Narmer...

---

posted 12 December 2004 02:23 PM            

Neo*Geo, Pepi the black and Kemsit have never been proven to be Nubians from ta-seti. Infact, southern Upper Egypt particulary around Luxor-Aswan was not significally different from the Lower Nubians. Frank J. Yurco even admits that Pepi the black had the typical look of a Southern Upper Egyptian.

Typically, Egyptians painted themselves reddish-brown and women yellowish colors for symbolism instead of ethnic idenity. After the Old Kingdom this color scheme broke down and people began to become painted in their own natural colors. You can see this on the tomb of the officals in modern day Luxor area the same as the people who live there today. Most ancient Egyptian artwork is symbolic anyway,and you will even find people painted blue,green,and assorted colors.

You have to understand the Nile Valley has the lightest people in the Delta and also the darkest people in Southern Sudan. Southern Sudanese people,as I learned, call Egyptians and Nubians hyenna droppings in their own native language. Ask a southern Sudanese this question and see what he says. Southern Sudanese are about the darkest people in all of Africa. Ironically, they also have facial features distinct from Bantus and Western Africans. Dinka,Nuer,and Shilluk often have traits that are distinct. Luo,Masai,and even Tutsi are in this category.

When Egyptians depicted enemies as in the case of the sandals of Tut-ankh-amun they depicted them more realistically than themselves. There were plenty of Egyptians around Aswan that looked no different than the so-called enemies on the sandals but as a conterbalance to isforet[chasos] which the enemies represented the Egyptians depicted themselves in contrast or a neutral color.

See the following from Gay Robbins an expert on artwork in Egyptology:

[......The choice of the single red-brown color to represent The
Egyptian man,rather than a more realistic range of shades ,should
also considered within a wider symbolic scheme that included the
representations of foreginers. The foreigne men to the north and west
of Egypt were depicted by yellow skin[similar to that odf traditional
Egyptian women]; men to the south of Egypt were given black skin.
Although undoubtedly some Egyptians' skin pigmentation differed
little from that of Egypt's neighboors,in the Egyptian worldview
foreigners had to be distinguished . Thus Egyptian men had to be
marked by a common skin color that contrasted with the images of non-
Egyptian men. That the Egyptian women shared their skin color with
some foreign men scarcely mattered,since the Egyptian male is primary
and formed the reference point in these two color scemes---
contrasting in one with non-Egyptian males and in the other with
Egyptian females. Within the scheme of Egyptian/non-Egyptian skin
color,black was not desirable for ordinary humans ,because it marked
out figures as foreign ,as enemies of Egypt,and ultimatley as
represenatives of chaos;black thereby contrasted with its positive
meaning elsewhere. This example helps demostrate the importance of
context for reading color symbolism.........]

[......Thus,the gender distinctionencoded for human figures was
transferred at times to the divie world. The symbolisminherant in the
skin colors used for some deities and royal figures sugest that the
colors given to human skin---although initiallyseeming to be
naturalistic -----might also be symbolic. Male and female skin colors
were probabaly not uniform among the entire population of Egypt,with
pigmentation being darker in the south[closer to sub-sahara Africans]
and lighter in the north[closer to Mediterranean Near Easteners] A
woman from the south would probabaly have had darker skin than a man
from the North. Thus,the colorations used for skin tones in the art
must have been schematic [or symbolic] rather than realistic;the
clear gender distinction encoded in that scheme may have been based
on elite ideals relating to male and female roles,in which women's
responsibilities kept them indoors,so that they spent less time in
the sun than men.Nevertheless, the signifcance of the two colors may
be even deeper,making some as yet unknown but fundamental difference
between men and women in Egyptian worldview............]

The Ancient God Speak by Donald Redford

A Guide to Egyptian Religion

Page 57-61 Color Symbolism

Gay Robins

posted 12 December 2004 02:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:
There were plenty of Egyptians around Aswan that looked no different than the so-called enemies on the sandals

---

Thought Writes:

posted 12 December 2004 02:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thought2:
{If your only interests in Ancient Egypt lie in whether you are related to them in skin colour then I question whether any of you should even advertise yourselves as being interested in the subject. I don't care if the Egyptians were black, or white. I don't care if they are related to me- the amount of melanin in their epidermis does not in the least concern me.}

Thought Writes:

This is a ruse. The issue is not as SIMPLE as what skin color the Ancinet Egyptians had. The REAL issue the fact that Egyptology from its inception was/is rooted in a White Supremacist ideaology. Egypt was one of the earliest Complex Societies and had a definitive role in influencing Ancient Greece. Ancient Greece is viewed as the font of "Western Civilization". "Western Civilization" is a euphemism for White Culture. At the time that Egyptology was being concieved as a science "Western" nations were in the process of colonizing "people of color" all around the globe. The justification for this colonization process was that it was Manifest Destiny for Europeans to be saviors of the les civilized races. Hence the myth that Europeans were saviors and the fact that Egypt was an indigenous African civilization that influenced Greece were in contrast to each other. Over the years those who support this Western Myth have used ruse after ruse and foil after foil to stretch out the life-span of this falsehood. Virtually every ruse that they have used has been demolished, except two. One is to posit "Caucasoids" in East Africa during the Upper Paloelithic and the other is to try and sell us on a multi-racial Egypt. Both of these ruses are false as well. Egypt was peopled from Sub-Saharan East Africa after the early holocene.

---

---------------------

This posting is about the most Thoughtless, I have ever seen.

Why can't people think like God intended us to and Notice the Obvious.......

Egyptians did not want to be Nubians, as they very accurately depict.

They knew who they were, and did not need Whites or Blacks telling them otherwise.

They looked down on Both the Whites and the Blacks....as can be clearly seen from their drawings and King Tut's Sandals.

Let the Egyptians be Egyptians.....Don't try to corral them into your Pigment of Imagination, because it will not work!!

Egypt is for the Egyptians, and the Egyptians only.....Ausar is Included, but with some reservation.

Come to Egypt and Enjoy the Legacy of the Pharoes, But leave your Hatred and Bias at Home!!

Thanks!!

------------------
THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!! ALWAYS LISTEN TO YOUR HEART & SOUL!! // PEACE ******* ABAZA

posted 12 December 2004 02:31 PM            

quote:

---

I thought for a chnage I would give some of you the benefit of the doubt. I thought maybe we could have a discussion about the meaning of the term "kemet without being disrespectful to each other or accusing people of being racists. I was wrong.

---

I did not accuse you of being a racist, and you are not debating the meaning of km.t.
However, you wrongly acussed altakruri of copping-out (even though he answered your question but you were too busy firing back poor responses to take notice), which is exactly what the ad hominem post above does.
Anyway, you've given yourself the excuse you need to retire from a debate, which you claim to not be interested on, and have no evidence with regards to.

posted 12 December 2004 02:32 PM            

quote:

---

Can I suggest that you just ban anyone who turns this forum into a racial battle-ground. Racial discrimination is illegal under both the E.U Human Rights bill and the U.S constitution, and surely you do not wish to home criminals?

---

I wish I could ban people,but this is not a function that is avaiable on this forum.

posted 12 December 2004 02:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Psusennes I:

If your only interests in Ancient Egypt lie in whether you are related to them in skin colour then I question whether any of you should even advertise yourselves as being interested in the subject.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo*geo:
THANK YOU

---

But wasnt it Orionix who spilt the hot coffee in our laps when he broached a
thread titled LINGUISTICS when all it
really was was an attack on KM.t.nwt as
refering to the AE relative skin colour?

Everytime someone posts a true Egyptology
topic along comes some Eurocentric minded
individual disrupting the discourse in
favor of a political social Eurocentric
agenda. Then when the individual is given
some rational material to consider, a
Eurocentric nutcase will shout Afrocentrism without
even so much as evaluating the material in
its own light for its weight and worth.

When a good presentation is made the group
gets distracted by Eurocentrists pushing their
socio political agenda and sometimes even
outright anti black or anti African hatred.

posted 12 December 2004 02:36 PM            

Thought Writes:

Avoidance is a troller tactic. If you disagree with something that I have stated responded specifically. I know that you won't because your purpose is not to get to the truth, but to disrupt as TROLLERS do.

{Why can't people think like God intended us to and Notice the Obvious.......}

Thought Writes:

What relevence does this comment have to my post?

{Egyptians did not want to be Nubians, as they very acuratelly depict.}

Thought writes;

Nubians and Ancient Egyptains were essentially the same people.

{They new who they were, and did not need Whites or Blacks telling them otherwise.}

Thought Writes:

Unless we used some sort of crystal ball I would not be able to tell an Ancient Egyptian anything. LOL!

{They looked down on Both the Whites and the Blacks....as can be clearly seen from their drawings.}

Thought Writes:

Please post one of those clear examples.

[Let the Egyptians be Egyptians.....Don't try to corral them into your Pigment of Imagination, because it will not work!!}

Thought Writes:

The above statement makes no sense.

{Egypt is for the Egyptians, and the Egyptians only.....Ausar is Included, but with some reservation.}

Thought Writes:

Egypt like most Ancient Civilizations are gifts for all of humanity.

{Come to Egypt and Enjoy the Legacy of the Pharos, But leave your Hatred and Bias at Home!!}

Thought Writes:

I have no hate or bias. I simply dislike TROLLERS!

posted 12 December 2004 02:40 PM            

quote:

---

Neo*Geo, Pepi the black and Kemsit have never been proven to be Nubians from ta-seti. Infact, southern Upper Egypt particulary around Luxor-Aswan was not significally different from the Lower Nubians. Frank J. Yurco even admits that Pepi the black had the typical look of a Southern Upper Egyptian.

---

posted 12 December 2004 02:45 PM            

quote:

---

Why do so many people make statements that cannot be supported with hard science!

---

Of course the question is rhetorical. How else can you make a bad argument, except by ignoring the facts?

Thought and Wally: the hard science and linguistics concur. No objection to your data has been offerred in this thread that is not essentially emotional politics.

posted 12 December 2004 02:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:

Neo*Geo, Pepi the black and Kemsit have never been proven to be Nubians from ta-seti.

---

Kemsit may not have been Nubian by nationality but she likely was Nubian by ethnicity since many Egyptians of the southern frontier were ethnically Nubian. The same can be said of Pepi since the 6th dynasty is thought to possibly have been of Nubian origin.

The 6th dynasty royal family was Aswani but they had built their capitol(Memphis) in lower Egypt where the very dark-skinned Egyptians weren't as numerous. The typical look of upper Egyptians was not so typical in lower Egypt.

posted 12 December 2004 02:51 PM            

quote:

---

You have to understand the Nile Valley has the lightest people in the Delta and also the darkest people in Southern Sudan. Southern Sudanese people,as I learned, call Egyptians and Nubians hyenna droppings in their own native language.

---

Yes, I recently heard about that, as a product of the Arabisation conflict going on in Sudan right now. For those who don't get it -> hyenna droppings are pale almost white; also note that Arab Sudanese (some of whom look typically black african) have their own choice list of physical insults to unfurl at the South Sudanese.

posted 12 December 2004 02:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo*geo:
The 6th dynasty royal family was Aswani but they had built their capitol(Memphis) in lower Egypt where the very dark-skinned Egyptians weren't as numerous.

---

Thought Writes:

posted 12 December 2004 02:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo*geo:
No, you just didn't answer the question. What other nations or ethnic groups NAME themselves as a NATION based on skin color?

Amhara doesn't mean "the red people" and Shangalla doesn't mean "the black people". The fact that both "red" and "black" people exist within the same nation proves my point even further.

How about Eritrea and Somalia? Do the names of those countries mean "the black people" or "the red people"?

---

What the flock of seagulls are you talking
about homey? You said no Africans described
themselves as blacks until white Europeans
introduced the concept and you have been
shown wrong in depths of time and throughout
the continent.

Im still waiting for any evidence from African
sources where they say "We Africans never knew
we were either red or black" as you have explicitly
written and I know quote as you seem to have forgotten and try to change.

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo*geo:
My point is that there is no point in history where Africans called themselves "black people" prior to encounters with white Europeans. And let me add that "black-skinned" and "black people" do not mean the same thing in antiquity as they do today.

---

I have conclusively shown that to be false.

By sneakily subtlely altering your statement
I deduce you are just arguing for arguments
sake and not at all interested in the fact that some

quote:

---

Africans called themselves "black people" prior to encounters with white Europeans

---

the
significance of Africas own notions of colour
consciousness, reds and blacks.

Thus the AE broad categories of blacks i.e.
RM RMT & NHHSW and reds TMHHW and AAMW, the
first historical notation of this very age
old and continent wide African reality.

posted 12 December 2004 02:55 PM            

quote:

---

Kemsit may not have been Nubian by nationality but she likely was Nubian by ethnicity since many Egyptians [/b]

---

posted 12 December 2004 03:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Neo writes: [QUOTE]Kemsit may not have been Nubian by nationality but she likely was Nubian by ethnicity since many Egyptians

---

posted 12 December 2004 03:01 PM            

"Kem" means black (adjective form), and "Kemet" means the blacks (noun form).

Goal post hasn't changed. This is still the point that has been made in the introductory notes and continues to be made by many, for which we have yet to see a counter argument supported by "scholarly" evidence, as Neo initially put it.

On the other hand, we have seen Nubians being tossed into this issue, precisely because of the menatality of playing on their skin color, and paint them as some entirely distinct people. Forget the fact that Egyptians had called people in the "Nubian" region, a variety of names, and that lower Nubia has throughout much of history been part of Egypt. This brings me to fallacious claim that Egyptians didn't want to have anything to do with Nubia, when in fact, even as we speak, the former Lower Nubian region is still part of Egypt.

This is not merely about melanin levels as someone carelessly stated. Biohistory tells us plenty about Kemetian roots, and add culture and linguistics to this (the topic at hand).

posted 12 December 2004 03:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo*geo:
The 6th dynasty royal family was Aswani but they had built their capitol(Memphis) in lower Egypt where the very dark-skinned Egyptians weren't as numerous.

---

quote:

---

Thought Writes:

Where is the evidence that supports this wild claim?

---

lol. I was just saying.
I like Neo but he goes on these wild tangents where statements:
* are unsupported
* contract previous statements.

I'm still laughing at how he asked me to prove that Kem was ever used to the describe "nubians"yptians as well as Egyptians; and then turned around and attempted to reject example of kem being applied to people because he says...they were Nubians!

Recalling Wally's parent post, let it be known that this thread has now offered specific examples of kem being used by dark skinned nile valley africans to describe their own skin color. No contradictory evidence has been offered, non sequitors and trolling (Abaza) are dismissed and do not weigh as evidence in a debate.

posted 12 December 2004 03:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:

What the flock of seagulls are you talking
about homey? You said no Africans described
themselves as blacks until white Europeans
introduced the concept.

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posted 12 December 2004 03:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by supercar:
To reiterate the point of the thread:

"Kem" means black (adjective form), and "Kemet" means the blacks (noun form).

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Ok if that's your conclusion the next logical question is did the Egyptians ever use the noun form of "Kem" to describe Africans beyond Egypt's borders? Did they see themselves as the only black people on the continent?

posted 12 December 2004 03:11 PM            

quote:

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No. Nubian did not even exist as a word for a specific ethnic group at that time.

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quote:

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It's immature to argue over semantics.

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quote:

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So if you insist on being a smart-ass, replace the word "Nubian" with "Nehesy"

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ps - thread topic is about semantics, btw.

posted 12 December 2004 03:19 PM            

quote:

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Thus the AE broad categories of blacks i.e.
RM RMT & NHHSW and reds TMHHW and AAMW, the
first historical notation of this very age
old and continent wide African reality.

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posted 12 December 2004 03:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
You have a reference to Kemset and Pepi Kem as Nehesy? [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 12 December 2004).]

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Thought Writes:

posted 12 December 2004 03:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
Wrong. I said that I wasn't wasn't aware of any ethnic group or nation that named itself based on skin color. You have yet to name a nation or ethnic group who's name translates to "black people". You read my question incorrectly and I still don't think you comprehend what I'm asking...

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Oh then you didnt write the following, someone stole your id and did it.

quote:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
My point is that there is no point in history where Africans called themselves "black people" prior to encounters with white Europeans

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posted 12 December 2004 03:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:

So if you insist on being a smart-ass, replace the word "Nubian" with "Nehesy"

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Why am I the only one who is asked to quote my sources? I'm only stating what is common knowledge for anyone who's read journals and books on ancient Egypt.

There is a book abou women of ancient Egypt called "Silent Images" which discusses Khemsit.

On Pepi, the 6th dynasty is a continuation of the 5th dynasty which, according to Mantheo, originated in Elephantine, Egypt's southern frontier.

You can't have it both ways so which is it fellas? Were ancient upper Egyptians prior to the New Kingdom phenetypically Nubians or phenotypically distinct?

posted 12 December 2004 03:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
Oh then you didnt write the following, someone stole your id and did it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by neo*geo:
My point is that there is [b]no point in history where Africans called themselves "black people" prior to encounters with white Europeans

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[/B][/QUOTE]

Ok, so I wasn't clear enough in my original question. i apologize for the confusion.

However, as I've already stated, I',m aware of Africans calling themselves "red". My question is based on the political name of a country not what individual Africans choose to identify themselves as.

posted 12 December 2004 03:31 PM            

Thought Writes:

neo, I don't want you to feel picked on. I ask everyone for their sources if they make out of the norm or suspect statements. I think you make many good points, but I disagree with you on some things as well.

{There is a book abou women of ancient Egypt called "Silent Images" which discusses Khemsit.}

Thought Writes:

And in this book the author claims that she is from the Nehsi?

{On Pepi, the 6th dynasty is a continuation of the 5th dynasty which, according to Mantheo, originated in Elephantine, Egypt's southern frontier.}

Thought Writes:

And this is where the Nehsi are from, Elephantine?

{Were ancient upper Egyptians prior to the New Kingdom phenetypically Nubians or phenotypically distinct?}

Thought Writes:

Prior to the New Kingdom most Upper and Lower Egyptians and probably some Palestinian groups were of an ancestral Sub-Saharan East African background primarily.

posted 12 December 2004 03:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
...the next logical question is did the Egyptians ever use the noun form of "Kem" to describe Africans beyond Egypt's borders? Did they see themselves as the only black people on the continent?

This is one of my original questions which no one seems to have taken a shot at answering.

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How many more times need I answer this?

I answered that in saying the AEs classified
Rm Rmt & Nhsw as blacks while classifying
Tmhw and Aamw as reds. I guess you are not familiar with the term RM RMT?