In a striking truthful two hours programme, the Christian theologist Robert Beford examined the issue and sources of the five main bibles? and guess what???? Yes, and that was we are saying for 1425 years. More later.
just think in this one thing: there is an OLD bible and a new bible, 'reformed' by humanhands...... God let us know, that he brought down the KORAN, because the humans changed the words and the meaning of the bible.
The original bible is sent down by GOD, of course !
But the bible is canceled in this moment, when the NEW BOOK was sent to us - the Holy KORAN!!!
It is just logical.
Just so many people don't LIKE to understand this important point - because it would change their whole life, their relationship with family and friends - because they would then believe in the Koran - and be Mo'men.
Ja Rob.Wish me, Allah open all peoples eyes and hearts.
posted
It is not of any particular importance who wrote the Bible or indeed who printed it. Christianity is about knowing God through the experience of a personal relationship with the Son of God. The person who knows himself in this way knows God. Charlie
Posts: 707 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Their was a documentary regarding this on this the other day. It raised lots of questions. The general belief is that different writer’s wrote the gospels and that they are “god Inspired”.
Yet we do not know the authors name or the origin of the books. The whole process of the formation of the bible at the council of Nicea. According to some people who attended seemed to be a less than “God inspired”
Bishop Eusebius in "History of the Church" (Book 3) talks about some of the debates that took place in putting together the bible. He refers to "spurious books" which include the Revelation to John among others that got canonised in a "deal" over some other books that were "disputed".
If you compare modern day bibles in use by Protestants and catholics, they are different (66 books in one Bible and 73 books in the other) and if you compare them with the oldest bible in the world, the Codex Sinaiticus, there are 14,800 differences.
just think in this one thing: there is an OLD bible and a new bible, 'reformed' by humanhands...... God let us know, that he brought down the KORAN, because the humans changed the words and the meaning of the bible.
The original bible is sent down by GOD, of course !
But the bible is canceled in this moment, when the NEW BOOK was sent to us - the Holy KORAN!!!
You are entitled to your belief but the Holy Bible is the Word of God, written by His hand through men and is without error.
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"You are entitled to your belief but the Holy Bible is the Word of God, written by His hand through men and is without error"
Surely this is merely another belief? What makes you so sure? The bible was created at the council of Nicea, when the original documents were chosen, according to the political beliefs of the time. These documents might have been written by people who 'believed' that they were writing the words of god, but if so, those words were often entirely contradictory.
posted
Faith is believing in what you cannot prove and I am secure in my faith and my relationship with God. The Bible was written by men led by the hand of God. I have no doubt of that. All things are possible with God.
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quote:Originally posted by salama: Can any body guess who wrote the bible?
In a striking truthful two hours programme, the Christian theologist Robert Beford examined the issue and sources of the five main bibles? and guess what???? Yes, and that was we are saying for 1425 years. More later.
Your topic itself in its context proves the difference between the Christian faith and "others"
Christians could care less of who wrote the Bible...Christians care much of what is in the Bible, the teachings of love and wisedom.
Loving eachother, even loving the enemies and praying for them.
Versus
Taking some 4 wives/and the killing of who ever don't believe, in other religions.
As a person I say:
I would not want to know the God who is making a mockery of me killing others believing in his name. "Toba 29"
I would not want to follow a God who is allowing me to marry 4 women at same time.
Only these 2 examples are enough for me to recognize which is which and what is what useing the mind he gave me to think of what is to him and what is not to him...
I would rather rest in hell far better than believing in the God of the 4 wives, and the bloody swords.
I could care less of who wrote what.
I care of what has been written, and what it means!!!
I would rather rest in hell far better than believing in the God of the 4 wives, and the bloody swords.
[This message has been edited by JOSHUA (edited 31 December 2004).]
Joshua, there is nothing in the Bible against polygamy. That is a manmade law and there are Christian sects that have more than one wife. There is plenty of bloodshed in the Bible and we only have to look to Northern Ireland to see that some people who call themselves Christians do not always act with Christian beliefs.
quote:Originally posted by Nile Watcher: Joshua, there is nothing in the Bible against polygamy. That is a manmade law and there are Christian sects that have more than one wife. There is plenty of bloodshed in the Bible and we only have to look to Northern Ireland to see that some people who call themselves Christians do not always act with Christian beliefs.
Polygamny was practiced by Hebrews. Jesus in one of the gospels told Christians to take only one spouse. Don't ask me which verse or which gospel, I completed confirmation half a lifetime ago. But its in there.
Mormons are exactly christains since they believe in a fake second coming of christ.
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Nile Watcher: Joshua, there is nothing in the Bible against polygamy.That is a manmade law and there are Christian sects that have more than one wife
This is probably the last funniest thing I set my eyes on in 2004.
[This message has been edited by JOSHUA (edited 31 December 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by sonomod: Polygamny was practiced by Hebrews. Jesus in one of the gospels told Christians to take only one spouse.
No, He didn't.
'According to Father Eugene Hillman in his insightful book, Polygamy Reconsidered: African Plural Marriage and the Christian Churches, "Nowhere in the New Testament is there any explicit commandment that marriage should be monogamous or any explicit commandment forbidding polygamy." Moreover, Jesus has not spoken against polygamy though it was practiced by the Jews of his society. Father Hillman stresses the fact that the Church in Rome banned polygamy in order to conform to the Greco-Roman culture (which prescribed only one legal wife while tolerating concubinage and prostitution). He cited St. Augustine, "Now indeed in our time, and in keeping with Roman custom, it is no longer allowed to take another wife." African churches and African Christians often remind their European brothers that the Church's ban on polygamy is a cultural tradition and not an authentic Christian injunction.'
[This message has been edited by Nile Watcher (edited 31 December 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Nile Watcher (edited 31 December 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by JOSHUA: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh". '(Genesis 2:24)'
HIS WIFE //NOT HIS FOUR WIVES///
THEY SHALL BE ONE FLESH //NOT FOUR FLESHES
[This message has been edited by JOSHUA (edited 31 December 2004).]
That verse refers to the institution of marriage and not to polygamy as most scholars have pointed out. It is from the Old Testament and most, if not all, of the Old Testament patriarchs, had multiple wifes, Joshua. Solomon had 700.
quote:Originally posted by Nile Watcher: That verse refers to the institution of marriage and not to polygamy as most scholars have pointed out. It is from the Old Testament and most, if not all, of the Old Testament patriarchs, had multiple wifes, Joshua. Solomon had 700.
Old testament is "Judism" which was completed by the Christ with the new testament that is why there are "old" and "new" testament.
Old testament belongs to the Jews in beliefs and long to christians as a history of what was there before the Christ.
Otherwise why would they crucify him if they agreed so much with his teachings.
Therefore: Always get used to the new testament when you address a Christian, it's our dictionary to existence. What was before the Christ was only the beginning of what the Christ had come to complete.
New Testament is the "keyword".
And if your logic is not helping you enough to make sense of one woman versus four women then your eyes will not open even if God himself stood before you to whisper it in your ears.
[This message has been edited by JOSHUA (edited 31 December 2004).]
posted
I have to agree to Joshua. More than one wife is a cultural practice that was indeed practised by many of the patriachs, including Abraham. However, just because they did it in the past doesnt mean that it is the right thing to do in the current age in which we find ourselves living.
It was never the intention of God to permit more than one wife. God created Adam and then he created Eve! That is where it began and THAT is the absolute. If it was changed after that, then it was man who changed the rules, not God.
This is crystal clear in the bible that Adam had one wife, and it is equally as clear in the Koran.
Those who deny this fact are quite simply in denial of the truth and there is no valid argument. Charlie
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The Essence of God, that is Christ (or you can call it the logos "idea of idea" or the Word, or Life or Breath) was BLOWN into the body of Mary. If you understand this, then you KNOW god, and it is quite irrelevent who wrote anything down!! Whether anything is written down, it doesnt mean anyone will either understand it or take notice of it. Take me for an example! Christianity, unlike Islam which is the religion of the Book, is an EXPERIENCE of a personal relationship with the Father (God) through the Son of God (Christ). One "Feels" or "experiences" God as a Christian, Moslems only read about him. Thats the difference. Charlie
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quote:Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com: It was never the intention of God to permit more than one wife. God created Adam and then he created Eve! That is where it began and THAT is the absolute. If it was changed after that, then it was man who changed the rules, not God. Charlie
God never put down those rules, Charlie. That is your own idea. You are entitled to your belief but this is not Biblical. It is not up to you to say what is God's intention. I am neither for nor against polygamy but there is no commandment against it in the Bible. And JOSHUA's use of this idea to try and put down Islam is wrong.
quote:Originally posted by JOSHUA: And if your logic is not helping you enough to make sense of one woman versus four women then your eyes will not open even if God himself stood before you to whisper it in your ears.
[This message has been edited by JOSHUA (edited 31 December 2004).]
This is your belief but it is not Biblical. I am firm in my Christianity, Joshua, - firm enough that I don't have to criticize others.
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The reason your arguments are weak Joshua is that you not only change the basis of your argument half way through, but that you also try to impose whatever rules you want to on the person you are talking to and don’t adhere to them yourself. As Nile Watcher pointed out you used a verse from the Old Testament to support your argument then you denied that it can be used by others in evidence. You insist that only the New Testament can be used to argue with you (although you didn’t state which version must be used), and follow it up by implying that “logic” is enough to determine the answer not sources!! Charlie has said that he uses “intuition”, or something similar, as the basis for his religious ideas but at least he is consistent!
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Nile Watcher: Faith is believing in what you cannot prove and I am secure in my faith and my relationship with God. The Bible was written by men led by the hand of God. I have no doubt of that. All things are possible with God.
Yes u are right Faith is beleiving in what u cannot prove but there is must be signs and some guidness and evidence for the religion to tell u that u are following the right religion. or why i follow a specific religion and not another one or U think i must follow my family religion without thinking?.
God create everything (man,animals, plant,...etc) and make everything worship to god with its nature without thinking but god give the man the brain to think and to invesitage what is right and what is wrong to choose the right and u will be asked about your choise.
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 01 January 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by MohdAnwar: there is must be signs and some guidness and evidence for the religion to tell u that u are following the right religion. or why i follow a specific religion and not another one or U think i must follow my family religion without thinking?.
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 01 January 2005).]
posted
How can anyone possibly say that it is not scriptural nor is it a rule of God to say that One Man and One Wife is the absolute "norm" showed to us in the example God made when he created Adam and Eve. This IS Gods perfect example. If he Created Adam, and then provided Adam with a Wife called Eve, and another wife called Sandara, and another called Phylis, and another called Persephonie, then one could easily argue the point that God intended us males to have personal hareams. There is no case here for multiple wives. Neither in the Bible nor the Koran.
What about the children that these relationships are supposed to engender, are all the wives going to be Moslem, or one Christian, one Moslem, one Hindu, and one Seik? No, of course, not. If the man is Moslem, all the wives have to convert and all the children will not have any choice in the matter of their religion.
Isram removes the choice. It removes the basic human right of a child or an individual to "choose" his own religion. Islam removes the basic human right of the individual.
(more rubbish for you to get your teeth into Sara!)
posted
Theres none so ignorant as the blind for they cannot see, and when the blind lead the blind they both fall into the hole together. Advice from the Koran. Charlie with wings.
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posted
Islam "tacitly" removes the right of a child or parent to "choose" religion. Offenders are severaly dealt with by Islamic Governments and society should they "choose wrongly" and be anything other than Moslem.
ISLAM DISCRIMINATES AGAINST NON MOSLEMS, AND DENIES THE BASIC HUMAN RIGHT OF A CHILD OR AN INDIVIDUAL TO "CHOOSE' HIS OR HER RELIGION FREELY AND WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
posted
Islam "tacitly" removes the right of a child or parent to "choose" religion. Offenders are severaly dealt with by Islamic Governments and society should they "choose wrongly" and be anything other than Moslem.
ISLAM DISCRIMINATES AGAINST NON MOSLEMS, AND DENIES THE BASIC HUMAN RIGHT OF A CHILD OR AN INDIVIDUAL TO "CHOOSE' HIS OR HER RELIGION FREELY AND WITHOUT PREJUDICE. The very saintly Charlie
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No, no, no, any human comes out from the womb as a moslem -----so you-----until they learn the wrong-----as you-----then they are unbelieved. A child which learns the Islam from their parents and know the true backround, they looooooove to be a moslem and they can tell you at once why other believes are wrooong. Even, if they would have a choice, they would N E V E R believe another 'group'. Because they have enough evidence.
Some people are soooooooooo blind
C., go tonight to a mosque and ask the praying moslems WHY they believe in islam, ask them if they would LIKE TO CHANGE.. You will be surprised! Tell them, you want evidence! You will get them. Believe it. But you will never 'jump over your shadow' and try out, what you don't know. Now it's Afternoonpray, may I will do a DOAE for you , so Allah opens your mind.
posted
You will never convert me into becoming a Moslem. It is not possible you see because Allah is the God of your imagination and he becomes all the things you want of him, as you so aptly prove to us all. Charlie the saint.
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quote:Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com: You will never convert me into becoming a Moslem. It is not possible you see because Allah is the God of your imagination and he becomes all the things you want of him, as you so aptly prove to us all. Charlie the saint.
Charly, you say bad bad things, and I guess you don't believe in HELL and GARDEN ..?
TELL us, WHO is the god of your imagination, just say it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! May Ali or Jesus, maybe Buddha or Pharao, maybe a cow or a monkey,hmm? But don't tell me, they made the earth and yourself, don't tell me, they will rescue you or anybody from the hellfire Or maybe you believe in your saintness only? Shame on you, to say such bad things about god. You are in an examination and me as well !!! Everybody got his "packet life", some are poor, some are very ill, some are ugly, some are handicapped...do you think, it doesn't make them a moslem then?
You are completly blind, I am sooooo angry because your bad words about Allah, maybe you will be punished for this!
You are "maybe sooo saint"....."for Schaitan"!! Go, shake his hand, maybe he's right for your imagination
quote:Originally posted by MohdAnwar: Well can u please let us know what it is . may be u can help us if we are in wrong way
All you need is to go to God in prayer, MohdAnwar, with a humble, seeking, and open heart. He will give you what you need and will never let you down. May God be with you now and always.
posted
The people who wrote the Bible are the same as those who wrote the Koran, only whilst they were translating into Arabic, they got most of it wrong. Charlie
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quote:Originally posted by germansara: No, no, no, any human comes out from the womb as a moslem -----so you-----until they learn the wrong-----as you-----then they are unbelieved. A child which learns the Islam from their parents and know the true backround, they looooooove to be a moslem and they can tell you at once why other believes are wrooong. Even, if they would have a choice, they would N E V E R believe another 'group'. Because they have enough evidence.
Some people are soooooooooo blind
C., go tonight to a mosque and ask the praying moslems WHY they believe in islam, ask them if they would LIKE TO CHANGE.. You will be surprised! Tell them, you want evidence! You will get them. Believe it. But you will never 'jump over your shadow' and try out, what you don't know. Now it's Afternoonpray, may I will do a DOAE for you , so Allah opens your mind.
hahaha you are seriously brain washed...and I wonder why Muslims who are hunted with spirits are lineing up on the Christian monstaries in the Egyptian desert to get a relief on the hands of the Egyptian monks....why can't they do it in their mosques.
[This message has been edited by JOSHUA (edited 01 January 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: The reason your arguments are weak Joshua is that you not only change the basis of your argument half way through, but that you also try to impose whatever rules you want to on the person you are talking to and don’t adhere to them yourself. As Nile Watcher pointed out you used a verse from the Old Testament to support your argument then you denied that it can be used by others in evidence. You insist that only the New Testament can be used to argue with you (although you didn’t state which version must be used), and follow it up by implying that “logic” is enough to determine the answer not sources!! Charlie has said that he uses “intuition”, or something similar, as the basis for his religious ideas but at least he is consistent!
You are so busy going around where is the verse from and not busy to admit what it says...is that your logic?
posted
Hello Joshuah, I have to agree with what you say except l. You referred to "4 fleshes" Actually a Moslem could make love to all four wives at once, and then there would be 5 of them in the bed together.
Really! And they have the cheek to call people in the West sexually perverted. All I can say is if my wife had caught me in bed with 4 women, whether they were Moslems or not, I would have been a dead pervert not lO seconds later!!
Had I known all this when I was at an age to appreciate so much human flesh on the menu, Sara might even have pursuaded me to convert to Islam. Apart from that I cant imagine why anyone would want to do it. Charlie.
posted
I take this is what some people think passes for a discussion.
Someone wants to discuss who wrote the bible and instead of taking the opportunity to inform and amaze everyone by showing them that the bible is the word of god, we get a post after post discussing anything except the issue of the thread.
I take it that that’s the only answer people have.
posted
The word Bible is derived from the Greek word Byblos which means a collection of books. No single person "wrote" the Bible, so there is no "guessing" to do.
The Bible was not written by the Bishops at the counsel of Nicea either, it was compiled there. Just like the modern day Koran and Hadiths have been compiled by various scholars.
In ancient times, words were written on papyrus, stones, and metals, in its original hebrew language. They were found all over the place, not in one sacred place like the words of the Koran (preserved in its original version, and original language)
This is what makes some aspects of the Bible unauthentic in my opinion, because no one can tell you where the original verses are. Plus it is a know fact, that a group of Jewish clerics refused to release the verses from the Book of the Dead to the public, because assumingly there were things written in them that went against their creed.
Those Bishops had their own agenda in forming the Catholic church, and many of the laws they made for the church was not necessarily Biblical in nature.
quote:Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com: Hello Joshuah, I have to agree with what you say except l. You referred to "4 fleshes" Actually a Moslem could ...
Please do not write incorrect information and make it seem like a fact. A Muslim man is only permitted to sleep with one wife any one time. No one else is allowed to be present.
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because your bad words about Allah, maybe you will be punished for this!
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