quote:

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Originally posted by hassancheb:
The word Bible is derived from the Greek word Byblos which means a collection of books. No single person "wrote" the Bible, so there is no "guessing" to do.

This is what makes some aspects of the Bible unauthentic in my opinion, because no one can tell you where the original verses are.

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The Bible was written by God through men whose hearts and minds he guided. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, Hassencheb, but the New Testament was written entirely in Greek, the common language of the day.
http://www.biblepath.com/bible_sbd.html

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Originally posted by Darkeyes:
The Bible was written by God through men whose hearts and minds he guided. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, Hassencheb, but the New Testament was written entirely in Greek, the common language of the day.
http://www.biblepath.com/bible_sbd.html

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Large portions of the Gospel were written in Arahmaic. Since that was the language of the time. Writting the Gospels in Hebrew could not have happened because many of the first Christians were not literate in Hebrew.

Possibly other books of the New Testament were written in Greek long after the Gospels which were far more than 4 originally, were actually written in Greek.

Besides women were the first to record events, parables, and miracles of Christ. Women were the core of his fellowship and his protection.

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Originally posted by sonomod:
Large portions of the Gospel were written in Arahmaic. Since that was the language of the time. Writting the Gospels in Hebrew could not have happened because many of the first Christians were not literate in Hebrew.

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Originally posted by Nile Watcher:
All you need is to go to God in prayer, MohdAnwar, with a humble, seeking, and open heart. He will give you what you need and will never let you down. May God be with you now and always.

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Dear Nile watcher,
Do u think the man who think the cow is holy or all other false religion that they worship to some else god. do u think they think they are wrong ? for sure no or they will not worship to it. i am open hearted and i Swear I always ask god to guide me to the right. but i just give u something from islam take it a wise.
while u ask god u have to work and work and then when u cann't reach what u want god will give u the help.
So u have to search and search with your mind to find the true religion. and when u can't reach i could ensure u will find the signs and the evidence for what it

but u have to search

By the way what u give me here is not evidence (god make man more than any creature with his mind and with his thinking and also give him the choise. so u have to use it)
and to not make yourself tired stop trying to find any evidence or signs cause u will not find anything..

In the meantime, I shall have to assume that Moslem wives queue up outside the door and come in one at a time for their conjuvial rights.

Anybody know this AYA?

Everything in Islam is logical and everything you 'bring' us unlogical ISN'T Islam.
Sadly you are denieing it.

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Originally posted by Mai:
Hi All, I think we read a lot of talk...a lot of replies!!!..
Ok It's not Islam fault for what others understand from it OR it's not Islam fault how some Muslims practices it too..!!
I will just replay on one rule. Yes, men are allowed to have 4 wives...it's a general rule not a must & in certain circumstances(if the first has disease ,can't have babies, or can't satisfy his needs..)..
imp points here:
1- Islam forbidden relations between man &women without marriage and consider it a sin ,therefore there must be a way for man to have another wife without disobeying god..
2-what the idea of having one wife for lifetime without having the chances for having better life in case of above reasons….,what’s the idea of having affairs ..hurting your wife. without marriage is that better than having another one ..
3-Islam rule told the man to tell his wife about his need to marry again &she has the choice to be his wife or to leave him,
4-if she choose to leave him here she has a rights to take including money,
and the right to marry someone else after that and starting new life too.
5-if she choose to stay his wife ..and here the same Islamic rule made a must on the man to equate between his two wives(money, same things for both children, care ,love, of sure it is difficult for feelings but he should try not to show that)..

what is better :living with one woman without marriage , leaving her any time no rights to have ,can’t be sure whose children she bring or maybe said they are not mine if I don’t want to carry responsibility
Or even having a wife and a lot of affairs hurting my wife and letting her shocked by chance.
Could any one answer!!!!!!!????????
And I forget to say its forbidden forbidden to have both at the saaaaame time,
And also not Islam fault to have such a ideas.. Islam is merciful gentle religion, care about person feelings..
.M.

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Perfect Answer,

Beside i want to add a very important information . When our prophet mohamed (PBUH) was send from god the man was able to not marry to only 4 womans but he was able to marry a lot of them (So islam in contrary limit the number of the wives) and if someone said why islam limit it with 4 wives and not only one I think Mai give a perfect answer

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Originally posted by Mai:
hi Charlie, no not that but husband must divide the days on his wives not the night !!!!

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Originally posted by JOSHUA:
oh my God...hahah...I can not even imagine that...I mean, do people have some brains here or not....does that sound logic to anyone?

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Dear Joshua,
Yes they have Brains but the problem is with you or may i tell your jelousity no other thing. and as Mai write it is the woman choise to compelete with him or to get divorce no force at all. So she accept her rights on days from her husband with a BIG SMILE .

A)-But we have right to ask , can a prophet make a mistake doctrine and worship , Why God couldn't protects his messengers from erring in matters of faith if we knew that prophets sent to lead people to Allah and order humankind to make goodness , and do people would accept ,believe or trust them as prophets of God if they (prophets ) had sexual crimes or shamed behavior ,why God couldn't choose different people or God couldn't predict correctly ,

-Let us know what Quran states before going to check the picture of prophets in the bibl

Quran says " And (remember) when We took from the Prophets their covenant, and from you (O Muhammad), and from Nuh (Noah), Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses), and 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). We took from them a strong covenant.

-Also Allah Almighty says in Quran (O Muhammad): "We believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob) and Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)] and what was given to Musa (Moses), 'Iesa (Jesus) and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (Allah) we have submitted (in Islam)."

C) ** The prophets in the Bible !
1. a prophet slept with his daughters (Genesis 19:30-3. )

2. a prophet slept with his neighbor's wife and plotted to kill him
(2 Samuel 11:1-27).

3. a prophet worshipped the Calf (Exodus 32:1-6).

4. a prophet changed his religion, worshipped idols and built them temples (1 Kings 11:1-13).

5. a prophet told lies and God deceived and destroyed another prophet
(1 Kings 13:1-30).

6. David, Solomon and Jesus were originally bastards from the seed of Pharez son of Judah (Genesis 38:12:30).

7. the firstborn of the Great Prophet who was the firstborn of God slept with his stepmother (Genesis 35:22 and 49:3-4).

8. The second son of the same Great Prophet (firstborn of God) slept with his daughter-in-law (Genesis 38:12:30).

9- Abraham (pbuh) is alleged to be a liar and worse (Genesis 12:13).

10. John the Baptist who was the greatest Israelite Prophet ever according to Jesus - though the least in the kingdom of God is greater than him! - failed to recognize his second lord on earth although this lord followed him and got baptized by him until he saw the third god descending on this second god as pigeon (Matthew 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11 and Luke 3:21-22).

11. the apostle of this god, Judea the Iscariot, who performed many miracles in his name and was among the disciples who were greater than Moses and other Israelite Prophets according to Jesus, delivered his god to the hands of his enemies for 30 pieces (Matthew 26:14-16, 27:3-9, Mark 14:10-11, Luke 22:3-6 and John 18:1-5).

12. Caiaphas, the high priest, who was a prophet according to John the Baptist rejected, insulted and made a verdict to kill his god (Matthew 26:57:68, Mark 14:53-65, Luke 22:54-71 and John 18:12-24).

13- Jesus (pbuh)In John 2:1-10 we read about Jesus' (pbuh) alleged treatment of his mother. In these verses, Jesus (pbuh) is alleged to have said to his mother John 2:4 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come

It's time to wake !

Ohhhhhhhhhh Z.,

yes, it IS time to wake up - for youuu!

Don't you see ? The bible has been faked by humanhands hundreds of years ago. The bible is a "storybook" - a realy bad one !

The Koran, unchangeable , has been sent down to us, because the humans 'faked 'the bible!
So, don't even open it!

Ohhh, I just can shake my head and wonder how still a lot of people believe this nonsense...

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Originally posted by Darkeyes:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sonomod:
[b] Large portions of the Gospel were written in Arahmaic. Since that was the language of the time. Writting the Gospels in Hebrew could not have happened because many of the first Christians were not literate in Hebrew.

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[This message has been edited by Darkeyes (edited 02 January 2005).][/B][/QUOTE]

Actually Darkeyes, there is a lot of controversy surrounding this subject in the Christian community. Many proponents claim that the earliest manuscripts found of the New Testament were written in Greek, but opponents claim that this was a translated version, and that the Jews destroyed many of the original Hebraic and Aramaic versions because they did not accept the teachings of Jesus(SAW). There have been many transcripts found with Jesus(SAW) name as Yoshua(sp) and John's name as Yochoa, which are clearly Hebrew, not Greek. So it has been claimed that the Greek version, is merely a translation. Others say that Hebrew was not spoken at the time, only by Rabbis, and the common people spoke Aramaic.

The only people that spoke Greek at that time in Judah were the Roman rulers, who were not disciples of Jesus(SAW). The Greeks were pagan, and opponents of that version claim they "hellenized" the original translation.

Actually the first Christians are the followers of Jesus(SAW), and they all spoke Hebrew or Aramaic. The first(earliest) Christian church was in Egypt, and the language spoken by them was the Coptic language which is closer to the Ancient Egyptian language. And if you read some of the text of Book of the Dead, you will see how close they resemble the 10 commandments. Also it was the controversy in Alexandria between Bishop Alexander and his deacon Arius that started this whole concept of the Trinity, the trinity was never revealed by Jesus(SAW) himself. Bearing in mind, people of Egypt at that time were used to worshipping many gods, and this concept of their being 3 gods in one human flesh (the trinity) was all brought up at the Church of Alexandria.

If you read the Biblical verses of creation it indicates the concept of more than one God, which seem to have been incorporated into polytheistic beliefs in them: It always speaks of the Lord God, as if there is a Main God, and more than one sub God, which is more paganistic than Monotheistic.

I.E. Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: "our" indicates more than one God, and this is from some polytheistics beliefs of gods, man-gods, demi-gods, and goddesses, which is why some of these Roman Catholics even took the virgin Mary (Saw) and had some people worshipping her like a goddess. So you have to bare in mind how many paganistic concepts found their way into modern Christianity, this is not so in the Koran.
The Koran version of creation is closely linked to what scientist are discovering 1400 years later, which was revealed to the Prophet(SAW)
Surah 71: 14-17
"'Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages.'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another.'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp. 'And Allah has produced you from the earth growing (gradually).
Scientist are discovering that men "gradually" grew from the earth in the form they call evolution, but we know that Allah "allowed" this evolution to occur, it was created this way.

Genesis 2: 22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever".....one of "us" indicates there is more than one God, and man has become like him. Well I bear witness that there is only ONE GOD, and his name is Allah!

Also I made an error above, when I claimed the Jews did not release the "Book of the Dead" actually I mean the "Dead sea scrolls" which have been carbon dated by archaeologist, and goes back to the time of early Christianity in Judea, were written in Hebrew and Aramaic and a few texts were found in Greek, in a cave in Qumran where a Jewish cult called the Essenes lived.

By C. Matthew McMahon

In the realm of scholarly invention, there exists a minority report that the New Testament documents were written first in Hebrew then later translated into Greek. You might ask why this is an important question to ask at the outset. It is quite important due to certain accusations that “unstable people” twist in order to discredit the New Testament documents and certain theological ideologies surrounding key Christian doctrines concerning Christ and God. Their intent is to parade their own agenda in attempting to reinterpret the New Testament in light of Hebrew idioms and syntax, rather than the Greek language. This holds huge complications for the Greek language because, simply stated, Greek is not Hebrew, and Greeks did not think like Hebrews. Within this debate, then, the very character of God is placed on the line. Not only this, but the wisdom of God is called into question. God used Greek to transmit the message of the Gospel, and those who oppose this are calling into question the wisdom and providence of God as to the use of His means for the end of the salvation of souls.

The arguments surrounding this theological reformulation raise questions as to whether the Apostles really thought Jesus was God, or that the Trinity is an Old Testament reality as well as a New Testament one. If the New Testament Scriptures were written in Hebrew, and then at a later time scribes copied the New Testament into Greek, then, according to these people, words and phrases used in Greek do not match the Hebrew ideas and were “glossed” in order to make sense. A gloss is an addition, correction, or replacement made by a scribe when translating or copying the New Testament documents. This would allow for a reinterpretation of the text, and the inerrant and infallible nature of the text would be called into serious question. For instance, they say that no Jew would understand God as coming in the flesh because the idea of the “Trinity” is not a Jewish concept at all, and the Old Testament Jew would never have thought of God in this manner. So New Testament scribes reinterpreted the New Testament documents in a manner that is really not true to the Biblical data. This leaves room for doubt as to whether the Messiah would really be God. It leaves doubt as to whether the Trinity is really a Jewish idea or a “gloss.” These are serious implications indeed.

Through the history of the church the question as to whether Greek was the original language of the New Testament autographs was not called into question. At times, Roman Catholic theologians attempted to “inspire” the Vulgate written by Jerome for their own purposes (which was written in Latin), and raised it above the Hebrew and Greek of the Old and New Testaments, yet, scholars and theologians through the history of the church had no reason to doubt the authenticity of the original Hebrew Scriptures to be written in Hebrew and Aramaic, and the New Testament to be written in Greek. The burden of proof completely lies within the boundaries of those who deny the claim. As it stands to date, no one has adequately presented a case, or proof for the case, that the entire New Testament was first written in Hebrew and then later translated int Greek. This theory is unrecognized in the modern world.[1] Only those who dare to overthrow core orthodox doctrines adhere to this view. This would include the cults, and factions of those cults in modern day Christianity.

Do we have any reason to say the New Testament documents were written in Hebrew? A simple answer to this statement is “no.” All of the current archeological evidence, MSS (manuscript) data, and social background of the New Testament era prove otherwise. As a matter of fact, prior to the New Testament era of Christ and the Apostles, there was already a massive undertaking to Hellenize the Jewish culture due to Roman influence. This would already have existed at the time of Christ and the Apostles; a time that Paul calls, “fullness of the time” (Galatians 4:4). This “fullness” demonstrates historically that God’s plan to bring forth the Christ (a Greek term meaning the “anointed” of God) was positioned in the midst of a Hellenized Jewish Palestinian setting which sat within the boundaries of a Roman culture which was predominately Greek speaking.

In looking at the history of Biblical MSS and textual criticism, there is no reason for us to believe that the entire New Testament was written in Hebrew then retranslated into Greek. Evidence to this is completely lacking. Evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. Also, there is no reason for us to believe that the documents themselves have been corrupted from their original intent and meaning although we do not have the original autographs. Turretin states that, “there is no truth in the assertion that the Hebrew edition of the Old Testa­ment and the Greek edition of the New Testament are said to be mutilated…”[2] The reason orthodoxy maintains this position is from the overwhelming amount of evidence that the transmission of the text(in both the Old Testament and New Testament) has been done so in a manner in which the copies have been preserved by a meticulous method. We can be sure that what we have today in the Biblical record is accurate to the text, meaning and message of the original documents. The Westminster Confession states this succinctly, “The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by his singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical.”[3]

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Originally posted by germansara:

Don't you see ? The bible has been faked by humanhands hundreds of years ago. The bible is a "storybook" - a realy bad one !

So, don't even open it!

Sara

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For example

[quote] Also, there is no reason for us to believe that the documents themselves have been corrupted from their original intent and meaning although we do not have the original autographs.[/b]

So they don't have the original autographs, but they have no reason to believe they have been corrupted. The only thing that is found to date are the dead sea scrolls, and as I already stated, they are written mostly in Hebrew and Aramaic.

Also there I have never seen any evidence that Jesus(SAW) or his disciples who are the primary "authors" of the new testament spoke Greek! So someone obviously had to translate what was said by them into Greek.

"The tongue called the Hebrew, a dialect of the ancient Hebrew, and distinguished from it by the name Aramaic. It was the common language of Judea in the time of Christ. It would be understood by all Paul's Jewish hearers, while many could not understand Greek"
http://www.basicbibletools.com/pnt/PNT05-22.HTM

"Aramaic was the language of Judea in the time of Christ."
http://www.tobypress.com/excerpts/e_secundus.htm

"It is generally accepted that Aramaic was the mother tongue of Jesus" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_of_Jesus

And all language anthropologist agree that the language spoken in Judea at the time of Jesus(SAW) was a afo-asiatic/semitic tongue called Aramaic and Hebrew was spoken only by clergy.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying "nothing" in the Bible is authentic, I'm just saying I can't find it 100% reliable given all the translations and lost of meaning, and destruction of original texts. Of course Christians can continue relying on faith alone if thats what they choose, but at least a muslim can feel confident knowing that the original text and language of the Koran has been preserved.

quote:

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Originally posted by Darkeyes:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sonomod:
[b] Large portions of the Gospel were written in Arahmaic. Since that was the language of the time. Writting the Gospels in Hebrew could not have happened because many of the first Christians were not literate in Hebrew.

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[This message has been edited by Darkeyes (edited 02 January 2005).][/B][/QUOTE]

No actually how many of Jesus disciples knew Hebrew?

I am not taking this frm a movie I have never seen. I am taking this from actual confirmation courses which my Pastor studied intensively with Rabbis and Imam who do archeology in the holy cities.

I am lucky enought to have this Pastor who looked at the Gospels not only as the living word or Christ but also a historical reference to the times.

Plus it is a well known fact that the Gospels numbered over 100, not just the 4 that were condenced for the bible and that they were originally written by women. In those days only the Priest of Jeruselam Temple were authorized to write scripture in Hebrew, business was conducted in the Roman tongue and language.

It wasn't untill the last century or so that every day lower class Jewish women were allowed to learn Hebrew. And most of Jesus's early believers were not rich and educated.

The Bible in total was written in three languages: (1) Hebrew, (2) Aramaic, and (3) Greek.

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, with a sprinkling of Aramaic. The Hebrew Old Testament was later translated into Greek called the Septuagint. The New Testament was written in Greek and occasionally you will find some
Aramaic expressions in the text.

If you will remember through the military conquests of Philip of Macedon and later Alexander the Great, the entire known world at the time of Christ spoke a common language, which is called Koine Greek.

It is likely that Jesus spoke the language of Aramaic, but no doubt he may have known Greek.

It was in the providence of God, since the gospel was to be proclaimed to every creature, that the New Testament writers made use of a language that was known everywhere. Greek in the first century, much as English is today, was the universal language.

Some people have argued for some sort of Holy Spirit Greek, but recent discoveries have proved otherwise.
Hellenistic or Koine (meaning common) Greek has been proved to be the language of the New Testament period through the discoveries among the Greek papyri. The significance of these papyri finds can scarcely be over-exaggerated.

Although many of the men who wrote the New Testament spoke Aramaic, no doubt they were fluent in Greek, the common language of the day. One story is recorded in Acts 21:37-39
37*

As Paul was about to be brought into the barracks, he said to the commander, “May I say something to you?” And he *said, “Do you know Greek?
38* “Then you are not the Egyptian who some time ago stirred up a revolt and led the four thousand men of the Assassins out into the wilderness?”
39* But Paul said, “I am a Jew of Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no insignificant city; and I beg you, allow me to speak to the people.”

The military commander was surprised that Paul spoke Greek.
Obviously, the Holy Spirit guided the apostles in the writing of the New Testament, but they wrote in the common language of the day.

1 Cor. 212-13
12* Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13* which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

Luke the physician, who wrote the gospel of Luke and the book of Acts, was a highly trained physician who evidently was trained in his craft at Alexandria, Egypt. He addresses his gospel to the "most excellent Theophilus" (Luke 1:3), as he does also the book of Acts (Acts 1:1). Theophilus, from his name, was undoubtedly a Greek. The gospel of Luke and book of Acts were undoubtedly written by Luke in the Greek language.

Says the New Bible Dictionary: "It is generally admitted that Luke is the most literary author of the New Testament. His prologue proves that he was able to write in irreproachable, pure, literary Greek" (p.758). He was a Gentile. Says this same source, "From the literary style of Luke and Acts, and from the character of the contents of the books, it is clear that Luke was a well-educated Greek."

The apostle Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. He spoke Greek fluently, and used it continually as he went throughout the Roman world preaching the gospel. Only when he was in Judea, and Jerusalem, did he generally use Hebrew (Acts 22:2). In writing his epistles to the churches throughout the region -- Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia, Philippi -- undoubtedly he also wrote in the Greek language. There is no evidence whatsoever that he originally used Hebrew names for God instead of the Greek forms, as they have been preserved through the centuries.

The History of the Church from Christ to Constantine, by Eusebius, provides us with greater insight into the writing of the New Testament. Eusebius records that after Peter first went to Rome, and preached the gospel there, that the people were so enthusiastic that they wanted a written record of the gospel he preached. Writes Eusebius:

"So brightly shone the light of true religion on the minds of Peter's hearers that, not satisfied with a single hearing or with the oral teaching of the divine message, they resorted to appeals of every kind to induce Mark (whose gospel we have), as he was a follower of Peter, to leave them in WRITING a summary of the instruction they had received by word of mouth, nor did they let him go until they had persuaded him, and thus became responsible for the writing of what is known as the Gospel according to Mark" (p.88).

This occurred in Rome. The request was made by Romans. The language Mark wrote in was Greek, which was commonly understood by all learned Romans, as Greek was the universal language of that time.

Eusebius tells us more about the original writing of the gospels. "Matthew," he records, "had begun by preaching to Hebrews; and when he made up his mind to go to others too, he committed his own gospel tow riting IN HIS NATIVE TONGUE, so that for those with whom he was no longer present the gap left by his departure was filled by what he wrote. And when Mark and Luke had published their gospels, John, we are told, who hitherto had relied entirely on the spoken word, finally took to writing for the following reason.The three gospels already written were in general circulation and copies had come into John's hands. He welcomed them, we are told, and confirmed their accuracy, but remarked that the narrative only lacked the story of what Christ had done first of all at the beginning of His mission" (p.132).

It is obvious that Mark, Luke and John, therefore, were written in Greek. John's headquarters, at this time, was undoubtedly Ephesus, where he finally died. Ephesus was in the middle of a Greek-speaking region, and John was writing for the entire Church, not just the Jews at Jerusalem.

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Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com:
Hello Zoalfaker, It is very easy to say something is a contradiction when they dont understand it. There are many Christians in fact who "see" many contradictions in the Bible. The truth of the matter is, precisely for the reasons you give, that there have been many changes - things put in - things taken out. Most of this editing was done in the formative stages of the early Catholic church.

However, if you can find me ONE single contradiction, I will be happy to explain it for you. This doesnt mean though that you will understand it any more for that is a matter of intellect which you might not have. Try me... Charlie

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sokarya_686
1- you said ((The truth of the matter is, precisely for the reasons you give, that there have been many changes - things put in - things taken out))
so,how can I trust in book chnged from one time to another by different pepoles, is the god gave christians the authority to make any changes in his book ?
2-you said ((This doesnt mean though that you will understand it any more for that is a matter of intellect which))
that means if I don't agree with what you belief that because I'm stupied and I well go to hill.
3- ARE MANY CHRESTIANS STUPIED ?
you said ( There are many Christians in fact who "see" many contradictions in the Bible)
this means according your opinion many of chrestians are stupied or not intelleigent pepoles ,
this declare why they are still chrestians and didn't converts to islam.

4-I found many of conradictions in your bible , plese explain me those conteradictions Mr.,EINESTIEN :-
1) Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was
the son of Heli.

2)How many stalls and horsemen?

KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he
bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

ENJOY YOUT TIME
ZOALFAKAR (ALSIEF)

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There has always been controversy about the Bible, Hassancheb, and always will. But this is what the majority of Christian scholars have agreed upon and dispite what you try to say, there is overwhelming evidence that this is the case.

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If you're satisfied with being a part of a "controversial" religion, then so be it, but don't comment on what I say, and get offended if I'm not convinced by your "scholars". There seems to be a lot of this going on lately.

Christian scholars cant "overwhelmingly" agree if they want to be Catholic, Prostestant, Babtist, Envagelistic, Church of Christ, Southern Baptist, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Quakers, and so on and so on and so on...so no way I can be convinced that they agree "overwhelmingly" on anything else.

Solomon had 4O,OOO stalls OF horses and l2000 horsemen..

Solomon had 4OOO STALLS for horses and l2000
horsemen which he BESTOWED on chariot cities.

Therefore he had 44,OOO stall, of which 4O,OOO were full of horses. The empty STALLS FOR HORSES "were BESTOWED, or given to his chariot cities. The horses and the men would be sent to where they were needed in times of emergency. Stalls were set up in various locations to house a contingent of horses from time to time. Horses were more valuable than soldiers and would not be left all over the country to get stolen.
Solomon was a wise king!

Firstly, it has been the main-question of this topic, charly,
secondly, you write again a lots of nonsens

Needless to say more Sara. Bravooooo.

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Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com:
Hello Salama, We are told by you that you have managed to get through university. I cant imagine how you did that without the ability to read plain English. Its no use calling on Sara for assistance, she is about as useful to you as a blind man without a stick.

Salam Charlie,
Like you, there were many who finally came to realise the truth Jan.
I would not be surprised to have with us soon.Welcome in advance brother.

Call on God, and try and convince me of your point of view, and you might get somewhere.

Charlie

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Salam Aliukum Brother/ Sister Charlie.

May Allah, the One and Only show the way.
You are very welcome.

Now, my motives are towards mysel in that I am a seeker after self knowledge. Contrary to the Order of God, I partake in the Tree of Knowledge.

What I have to say to you and others reading herein, and to answer your question which so far nobody has done sufficiently well, is to say that the tree of knowledge itself wrote the Bible, and in my view the Koran also.

I am not advising anyone to partake of the tree of knowledge for I know you are all of you cursed by God for already doing so.

However, for those who have never seen the tree of knowledge, I will direct you straight to it. You will find there, amongst its branches, the origin of the world, and the creation of Adam and Eve. It is not the simple matter that you read in the Koran or the Bible taking up just a couple of sentences.

The creation of the world is a monumental work of genius which cannot be described in a couple of words, those are simple words for the simple minded. If you have a strong heart and a stomach to match, then follow my instructions to the Creation and find out who you are. You will need high intellect, this is not a place for simple souls.

Type in to your computor: On the origin of the World - the Nag Hammadi Library.

Scroll and click on the same.

You may now eat of the tree of knowledge as it was written by the hand of God before the Roman Catholics got hold of it.

You will be shocked when you know where the Bible and Koran came from.

quote:

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Originally posted by Darkeyes:
That's fine. We can agree to disagree and still be friends.

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Of course Darkeyes, thank you for being so civil

ISLAM DISCRIMINATES AGAINST NON MOSLEMS, AND DENIES THE BASIC HUMAN RIGHT OF A CHILD OR AN INDIVIDUAL TO "CHOOSE' HIS OR HER RELIGION FREELY AND WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

Is this why left your country after retiring coming to Egypt? Well, Moslim believe that all are born moslims anyway.
In fact, christians as well believe that all born moslim, perhaps that is why you have to babtise them, just in case?

Once more, you are very welcome into our faith.May Allah , the One and Only clean up your heart and brains to realise the truth.

quote:

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Originally posted by salama:
The sweetest of German of all Sara wrote:

Firstly, it has been the main-question of this topic, charly,
secondly, you write again a lots of nonsens

Needless to say more Sara. Bravooooo.

--------------------------------------------
.... hihihihi
Thanks for the flowers.....give me more...

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Solomon had 4O,OOO stalls OF horses and l2000 horsemen..

Solomon had 4OOO STALLS for horses and l2000
horsemen which he BESTOWED on chariot cities.

Therefore he had 44,OOO stall, of which 4O,OOO were full of horses. The empty STALLS FOR HORSES "were BESTOWED, or given to his chariot cities. The horses and the men would be sent to where they were needed in times of emergency. Stalls were set up in various locations to house a contingent of horses from time to time. Horses were more valuable than soldiers and would not be left all over the country to get stolen.
Solomon was a wise king!

Dear Einstien 2005
1- 40000 stalls or 4000 stalls , which is the true number , I didn't think the persone who write KI. he the same person who write CH2.
2- Any body can understand 12000 horseman for 4000 stalls 3:1 ratio., but I cannot understand by any way 12000 horesman for 40000 stalls 0.3:1 ratio.
3-you said (The father of Joseph was Jacob Heli)
what are the historical refrence you came with this information ,it seems the persons who wrote MT. AND MK. KNOW EACH OTHERS

Charly, don't you see ???
Aren't aaaaaaall this evidences enough for you?
Now, tell us really, in what or who you believe ! So,then we are able to give you know how enough to let you away from the wrong way.Inschaallah.

....am waiting...

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Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com:
I knew you were up to something Salama, you and Modanwa and German Sara. Youre going to get me kidnapped and put me into that mental hospital sara visits every now and then for a rest, and then have me brainwashed into becoming a Moslem. Either that or you put worms into my computor to send subliminal messages to my brain so you can convert me that way.

I can assure you that you wouldnt want me as a convert. Charlie.

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You think anyone who is muslim is brainwashed huh? I find this very insulting for millions of people around the world. But then again I'm speaking to a man who sometimes posts as a pyschotic sex starved woman, and no telling how many other characters. Get a life!

Now, you are obviously aware of Einsteins theory with regard to the speed of light.
Now, these figures concerning horses and stables and horsemen are in fact sacred mathematics encoded into the Bible and they repeat themselves at various places in various ways. You will realise of course that the early Christians - the therapeutate - for example only allowe entrance to the cult if the candidate had a very good knowledge of pythagoran mathematics. They worshipped, basically, "Light" "Light" was in fact another one of Jesus names. And God is also the light of the world etc etc...

Please go through these sacred mathematics with me, including the "deliberate" error in the text. Multiply l2OOO x l2OOO
= l44,OOO,OOO

Divide l44,OOO,OOO by 6O
= 2,4OO,OOO

then divide this by 36O
= 666 recurring....

The Number 666 in the Bible is the number of the beast. The "beast" is a name for the instructor, or as we prefer to say "The Teacher of Righteousness" The teacher of righteousness is thus called because he is the "light" (of the world)

To "prove" my point and Einsteins theory, if we look up in Revelations we find that l44,OOO people were sealed or "branded" with a branding iron on their foreheads with the No: 666. Strange fact isnt it that these figures get from the Old Testament into the New Testament. So we will go over the figures again but this time I will give you a bit more detail to go on. Take the l44,OOO, divide it by 6O minutes, and divide the sum by 36O degrees.
You will arrive an an answer of 6.66

What this signifies is "Light" (the speed of) : l44,OOO divided by 6O and then divided again by 36O degrees means that light travels around the earth 6.66 times in one second!

This exact same equation is found encoded into the collar of King Tutankhamun, because you see they were all mathematicians and astronomers. (I will prove the collar to you if you insist)

These are 3 examples whereby the ancients knew everything about "light" Dont forget they all started out as sun worshippers before the religion became the religion that we know.

I didnt want to tell you this, but now that I have it is hoped you will find it useful.

Repetition is the only reason you wouldn't like this book. Since it is so difficult explaining these things, he adopts a repetitive writing style to basically drive the point into your head. You'll want to throw up every single time he says "black people", or "Afrim". Aside from that, this is easily the best book I've ever read.

You can verify pretty much everything this guys says. His bibliography is surprisngly mainstream and his mastery with linguistics is undeniable. Nana Banchie Darkwah is Aduana (Akan) royalty and is obviously an authority on the culture of the Akan. I think with this book, he made himself an authority on the Bible, Jews as well as Egyptians. There's pretty much nothing like this book.

This author says the Jews come from the Akan group of West Africa. A group of people that consist of 11 tribes and 8 clans. He also boldly claims the Akan were central in Egyptian civilization. What he's saying is the people that left Egypt in the biblical Exodus (and later returned to Egypt when the Ptolemies conquered) came from various Akan tribes and called themselves "Afrim" which means to secede or leave a larger group. He says "Classical Hebrew" was really the Akan language.

Here's a major point, pg 180:

quote:

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The revelation of the name Afrim comes from Africa's side of the story. However, scholars of Jewish history in the west also confirm that the people that left ancient Egypt into the biblical Exodus referred to themselves as the Ivrim people. It was the Akan word Afrim that was transposed and presented in European orthography as Ivrim. Two European alphabetic and phonological systems came together to make the transposition of the Akan word Afrim to to Ivrim possible. The first influence was the German alphabet. In German, the alphabet "v" is pronounced as the English "f". So that from German alphabetic influenced the word Ivrim is actually pronounced Ifrim. That brings the pronunciation of this word as closely as possible to it's original Akan pronunciation. The second influence is from English alphabets. In English alphabets, the vowel "I" has two pronunciations. It can be pronounced as a long "I" as in "dime", or a short "I" as in "nickel". When the initial "I" in the word Ivrim is pronounced long in English with a German pronunciation os the "v", it approximates the original pronunciation of the word Afrim in the Akan language. Linguistically therefore, it is clear that it was the Akan word Afrim that has been transposed to Ivrim. The Afrim people of the Exodus also conferred this collective name onto their nation. The earliest name of the State of Israel was also the Akan word Afrim. Again, there was a western transposition of this Akan word when it referred to the nation of the Afrim people. Western historians and biblical scholars transposed the same Akan word Afrim into western orthography as Ephraim. The State of Israel's earliest and ancient name was also Afrim, this time spelled as Ephraim.

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quote:

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Originally posted by salama:
The sweetest of German of all Sara wrote:

Firstly, it has been the main-question of this topic, charly,
secondly, you write again a lots of nonsens

Needless to say more Sara. Bravooooo.

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