The Grimaldi types from Europe could be explained by the Caucasians and the Khoisan-types interbreeding in the Middle East and then both types (and mixed descendants) migrating together into Europe during the Gravettian period. I don't see the genetic evidence that would imply a migration straight from Africa 45,000 years ago. The most likely scenario would be that some of the Khoisan-types that migrated first Out of Africa 65,000 years ago, bringing Y-DNA CF and DE who followed the beachcombing route settled in areas of southwest Asia and stayed in the West. Most however continued to the East following the Indian Ocean. The group that settled in southwest Asia migrated further north to the Caspian Sea region and by 50,000 years ago evolved into Caucasian people. In the Arabian penninsula at this time the still tropically adapted Khoisan-types were influenced by the new Aurignacian industry brought there by the Caucasians further north. The Caucasians that stayed in the Caspian Sea region for all that time began migrating in all directions from this main area with the new technology. As they moved south and east they began to absorb all the Khoisan-types that were originally in the areas of extreme south Asia, except for the Andaman Islands, Southeast Asia, etc. But the Khoisan-type could not have been the majority of the population anywhere they were in Asia, because they were still using the same technology that they had brought from Africa 15,000 years before so they're populations would have been sparse. The invention of Aurignacian technology further north would have caused great population density able to support the increasing population which caused the population spike to begin with. Since the Gravettian came from Asia it would make sense that mixed descendants would be part of the migration as well as the Caucasian people into Europe.
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KHOISANS AND CAUCASIANS IN THE MIDDLE EAST 50,000 KA????
CAUCASIANS What???? At no point in their genetic history have Europeans ever formed a single genetic population. They are a potpourri of people patrilineally and matrilineally.
Just throw that term "caucasian" in the Black Sea where it belong.
-------------------- It was high time Posts: 314 | From: Home | Registered: Apr 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Omo Baba: KHOISANS AND CAUCASIANS IN THE MIDDLE EAST 50,000 KA????
CAUCASIANS What???? At no point in their genetic history have Europeans ever formed a single genetic population. They are a potpourri of people patrilineally and matrilineally.
Just throw that term "caucasian" in the Black Sea where it belong.
Not all Caucasoids are European.
Caucasoid relates to a morphological and phenotypic racial type still recognised as valid by modern forensic scientists and physical anthropologists, just as are Negroid and Mongoloid.
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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That's a great story, too bad it's incorrect as there's no evidence for it.
Below you will be shown how Upper Paleolithic Europeans exhbited tropical body plans well into the Mesolithic insinuating a replacement with A.M.H. coming from Africa coinciding with the genetic record.
This is why the notion of "Caucasians" (I'm taking it as you implying like recent Europeans) 50kya is absurd...especially since Europe was one of the last places populated by modern humans with the oldest evidence of occupation archaeologically some 40kya while the cranial data found is later in time, and as shown when they did arrive to Europe they exhibited tropical body plans.
No cold adapted individuals at all that resemble recent Europeans in the world at this time. None!
Basically what we are shown is that EEMH had tropical body plans along with some having thinner nose indices, their body plans denote obviously their tropical origin it was only after they reached Europe and after millenia of residing in Europe that EEMH began to start resembling recent Europeans during the Mesolithic.
What we are also shown (elsewhere) is that the EEMH have ties cranio-facially with north African specimens such as the Mechta-Afalou and Mechtoids as well as the Hofmeyr skull from south Africa.
The Hofmeyr skull mind you was also shown to not so much resemble modern Khoisans either but does resemble the EEMH.
This then implies that the current Khoi-San phenotype is logically a result of adapting to south Africa throughout the following millenias...
Do you know of any data implying a connection in another area?
The data clearly refutes any population resembling recent Europeans osteologically, accordingly it has been shown the same when in reference to skin complexion.
Sorry no cold adapted white people 50, 40, 30 nor 20kya. Not a scrap, only wishful thinking.
quote: Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins. T W Holliday
Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow. Following these observations, competing models of modern human origins yield different predictions concerning body proportion shifts in Late Pleistocene Europe. Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess "tropical" body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering. This study tests these predictions via analyses of osteometric data reflective of trunk height and breadth, limb proportions and relative body mass for samples of Early Upper Paleolithic (EUP), Late Upper Paleolithic (LUP) and Mesolithic (MES) humans and 13 recent African and European populations. Results reveal a clear tendency for the EUP sample to cluster with recent Africans, while LUP and MES samples cluster with recent Europeans. These results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions. These data do not, however, preclude the possibility of some (albeit small) contribution of genes from Neandertals to succeeding populations, as is postulated in Bräuer's "Afro-European Sapiens" model.
quote:Brachial and crural indices of European late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic humans.
T W Holliday
Among recent humans brachial and crural indices are positively correlated with mean annual temperature, such that high indices are found in tropical groups. However, despite inhabiting glacial Europe, the Upper Paleolithic Europeans possessed high indices, prompting Trinkaus (1981) to argue for gene flow from warmer regions associated with modern human emergence in Europe. In contrast, Frayer et al.(1993) point out that Late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic Europeans should not exhibit tropically-adapted limb proportions, since, even assuming replacement, their ancestors had experienced cold stress in glacial Europe for at least 12 millennia. This study investigates three questions tied to the brachial and crural indices among Late Pleistocene and recent humans. First, which limb segments (either proximal or distal) are primarily responsible for variation in brachial and crural indices? Second, are these indices reflective of overall limb elongation? And finally, do the Late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic Europeans retain relatively and/or absolutely long limbs? Results indicate that in the lower limb, the distal limb segment contributes most of the variability to intralimb proportions, while in the upper limb the proximal and distal limb segments appear to be equally variable. Additionally, brachial and crural indices do not appear to be a good measure of overall limb length, and thus, while the Late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic humans have significantly higher (i.e., tropically-adapted) brachial and crural indices than do recent Europeans, they also have shorter (i.e., cold-adapted) limbs. The somewhat paradoxical retention of "tropical" indices in the context of more "cold-adapted" limb length is best explained as evidence for Replacement in the European Late Pleistocene, followed by gradual cold adaptation in glacial Europe.
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Not all Caucasoids are European.
Not all "Negroids" are African, and all Africans are not "Negroid".
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Not all Caucasoids are European.
Not all "Negroids" are African, and all Africans are not "Negroid".
Negroids are only Sub-Saharan African.
The Negritos (Asian Pygmies) of Oceania were once classified as Negroid based on their similar phenotypic features (e.g. wooly hair, prognathism), however it is now known they are not African.
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^^That has to be the most absurd thing ever, so first you're saying "Negroid" is based on phenotype, and hence why Negritos were classified with Africans (remember so are other Oceanic populations and are also genetically non African), but then on the other hand you'll say that Negritos are not really "Negroid" because they're not genetically African, in the same breath you call people who are genetically African such as the Tutsi, Fulani, Somali etc... not Negroid... hmmm is it in the blood or in the outside phenotype? Get it together kid. LOL
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): [QB] rainingburntice,
Below you will be shown how Upper Paleolithic Europeans exhbited tropical body plans well into the Mesolithic insinuating a replacement with A.M.H. coming from Africa coinciding with the genetic record.
How do you define ''tropical body''? What are its features?
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^Above I gave two references from well known anthropologist Trenton Holliday...
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The articles doesn't clarify what a 'tropical body' is. It just says: ''Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess "tropical" body proportions'' and later implies these are long limbs.
Clearly this is problematic, as very few tropical populations have long legs.
The only African population with long limbs are the Nilotes.
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In short, as it notes above it represents higher brachial and crural indices, trunk height and breadth, limb proportions and relative body mass it coincides with Bergman and Allens rule that warm blooded animals will have shorter appendages in colder climate and longer in a hotter climate, has to do with retaining and dissipating heat respectively. Pygmies, the shortest of all Africans are still tropically adapted showing that their indices are higher than that of Europeans.
Read this book in the link it explains all about body size and shape etc...bottom of page 143-148.
After you've done that, you can return here and read the following lines from the the sources already provided above...
"Ontogenic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow..[...].Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess "tropical" body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering..[..]. Results reveal a clear tendency for the EUP sample to cluster with recent Africans, while LUP and MES samples cluster with recent Europeans.---T.W. Holliday
^^Really quite clear.
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1) dark skin -adaptation to higher UV intensity in climates closer to the equator -protects skin from too much ultraviolet radiation exposures due to intense sunlight
2) relatively larger nostrils
3) tropical body plan limb ratios: limbs are longer relative to the trunk regardless of height
4) kinky hair -hair is spring coiled to allow perspiration to escape in humid environments
_________________________________
Cold Characteristics
1) lighter skin less UV intensity in environments further from the equator skin is also much less exposed, due to clothing. Except for areas with plentiful fish, vitamin D is absorbed faster by lighter skinned people to compenstate for lower levels of vitamin D producing sunlight
2) smaller nostrils generally less cold air is inhaled, keeping the body warmer
3) cold body plan, limb ratios: limbs are shorter and thicker relative to the body so there is less skin surface area exposed to cold "Allen's Rule"
4) straight hair hair is not coiled, lays on top of itself, warmer can grow long and provide some warmth to back of neck, shoulders
5) more hair, mammals in colder envirionements have longer hair in order to protect them from the cold
* all the above, with a small number of exceptions, some with explanations _________________________________________________
* when we look at South American people who live in the Amazon we see people with somewhat dark skin yet have straight hair. This could be explained by the fact that the adaptations above can take different lengths of time for each to occur. So the darkening of the skin might take less time than hair to change and the South Americans have not been in the humid environment liong enough for that to happen yet.
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^^Start a new thread, we're talking about EEMH here, and the wishful thinking about the existence of "Caucasians" 50kya.
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: The articles doesn't clarify what a 'tropical body' is. It just says: ''Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess "tropical" body proportions'' and later implies these are long limbs.
Clearly this is problematic, as very few tropical populations have long legs.
The only African population with long limbs are the Nilotes.
^^^ If you don't know what Allen's Rule entails then familarize yourself with available material. Its more than Limb proportions
It is determeined by
*Trunk height and breadth *Limb Proportions *Body Mass
So essentially Body Proportions convey the climate a said individual is adapted to live and survive. If Europeans had evolved seperatly in Europe or Caucasians came from the Caucus Mts. bring Caucasian features the Body Proportions would reflect Cold Adaption or adaption to cooler climates, unfortunately for you it does'nt.
quote:Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenetic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow. Following these observations, competing models of modern human origins yield different predictions concerning body proportion shifts in Late Pleistocene Europe. Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess “tropical” body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering. This study tests these predictions via analyses of osteometric data reflective of trunk height and breadth, limb proportions and relative body mass for samples of Early Upper Paleolithic (EUP), Late Upper Paleolithic (LUP) and Mesolithic (MES) humans and 13 recent African and European populations.Results reveal a clear tendency for the EUP sample to cluster with recent Africans, while LUP and MES samples cluster with recent Europeans. These results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions. These data do not, however, preclude the possibility of some (albeit small) contribution of genes from Neandertals to succeeding populations, as is postulated in Bräuer’s “Afro-European Sapiens” model.
-Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins☆
In other words you descend from a Black African who adapted to the cooler climates of Europe, making you a Nigger in origin.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): ^^Start a new thread, we're talking about EEMH here, and the wishful thinking about the existence of "Caucasians" 50kya.
Modern races (excluding Australoid) in their current form only date to the Holocene. Cro-Magnon skulls still exhibit robust archaic features, as do the Skhul, Omo remains etc.
The Cro-Magnons however were proto-Caucasoid (lack of prognathism, leptorrhine nose etc). We also know the Cro-Magnons were straight-wavy haired based on a 26,500 year old bust carving.
Several works on genetics, blood types and cranial morphology indicate that the Basque people are closest descendents of the original Cro-Magnon population.
The Basques are Caucasoid.
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In other words you descend from a Black African who adapted to the cooler climates of Europe, making you a Nigger in origin. [/QB]
Negroids are a recent mutation, Caucasoid are far older.
Enjoy -
''True Black Africans appear as a recent adaptive radiation apparently branching off from an ancestral Pygmy population — a line of ancestry also indicated by osteological data (Coon 1962:651-656; Watson et al. 1996). This radiation seems to have occurred somewhere in West Africa. Before the Bantu expansion about 3,000 years ago, true Black Africans were absent from the continent's central, eastern, and southern regions (Cavalli-Sforza 1986:361-362; Oliver 1966). They were also absent from the middle Nile until about 4,000 years ago, at which time they begin to appear in paintings from Pharaonic Egypt and in skeletal remains from Nubia (Junker 1921).''
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quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: To Agueybana:
The Grimaldi types from Europe could be explained by the Caucasians and the Khoisan-types interbreeding in the Middle East and then both types (and mixed descendants) migrating together into Europe during the Gravettian period. I don't see the genetic evidence that would imply a migration straight from Africa 45,000 years ago. The most likely scenario would be that some of the Khoisan-types that migrated first Out of Africa 65,000 years ago, bringing Y-DNA CF and DE who followed the beachcombing route settled in areas of southwest Asia and stayed in the West. Most however continued to the East following the Indian Ocean. The group that settled in southwest Asia migrated further north to the Caspian Sea region and by 50,000 years ago evolved into Caucasian people. In the Arabian penninsula at this time the still tropically adapted Khoisan-types were influenced by the new Aurignacian industry brought there by the Caucasians further north. The Caucasians that stayed in the Caspian Sea region for all that time began migrating in all directions from this main area with the new technology. As they moved south and east they began to absorb all the Khoisan-types that were originally in the areas of extreme south Asia, except for the Andaman Islands, Southeast Asia, etc. But the Khoisan-type could not have been the majority of the population anywhere they were in Asia, because they were still using the same technology that they had brought from Africa 15,000 years before so they're populations would have been sparse. The invention of Aurignacian technology further north would have caused great population density able to support the increasing population which caused the population spike to begin with. Since the Gravettian came from Asia it would make sense that mixed descendants would be part of the migration as well as the Caucasian people into Europe.
You have got to be joking! First of all there is no such thing as racial types such as "caucasian", "negro", "mongoloid", or any type for that matter! Secondly, humans were still recently settlers of Eurasia after leaving their homeland in Africa around 50,000 years ago, so what is this talk of racial types when everyone at that point was essentially African??
What exactly constituted a "caucasian" or a "khoisan"??
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): ^^Start a new thread, we're talking about EEMH here, and the wishful thinking about the existence of "Caucasians" 50kya.
Modern races (excluding Australoid) in their current form only date to the Holocene.
Well atleast you're not arguing for 50ky old "Caucasians", that's a start, but to say other present day phenotypes weren't around see below question.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Negroids are a recent mutation, Caucasoid are far older.
More absurdity, so how do you account for the "Negroid" phenotype of Oceanic populations who have been outside of Africa for some 60-80ky or more?
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: The Cro-Magnons however were proto-Caucasoid (lack of prognathism, leptorrhine nose etc).
So although we know EEMH were just arriving in Europe during these times in the upper Paleolithic, exhibiting their still tropical body plans, they were proto "Caucasoids" how does that work? Lol
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: We also know the Cro-Magnons were straight-wavy haired based on a 26,500 year old bust carving.
We also know archaeologically and anthroplogically that Cro-Magnon EEMH came from outside of Europe during the upper Paleolithic and their topical body plans tell us that it was recently from Africa.
Like I asked "burntice" you do know the connections EUP had with Mechtoids and Mechta Afalou from north Africa as well as with the skull from Hofmeyr South Africa right?
This logically implies these features came to Europe from Africa as the tropical body plans also indicate.
It's common sense.
Btw, Oceanic populations were shown to resemble the Hofmeyr closest amongst all human populations, guess who Oceanics resemble, oh that's right, Africans. lol
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Several works on genetics, blood types and cranial morphology indicate that the Basque people are closest descendents of the original Cro-Magnon population.
Cite this evidence please.
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^Well, if you bothered to read the sources cited above, it shows how EEMH entered Europe during the EUP and still showed some signs of tropical adaptations in some regards even into the MES while also exhibiting some gradual changes towards cold adaptation during the LUP and MES. You can get an idea and gauge it from that.
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): Well atleast you're not arguing for 50ky old "Caucasians", that's a start, but to say other present day phenotypes weren't around see below question.
Australoids have retained the most archaic homo features, they also have the lowest IQ's and they still live in stone age type society.
Archaic features are also found in other races: Negroids - prognathism, Caucasoids - heavier growth of body hair etc but the Australoid race has all these archaic features.
This does not mean to say that all the races evolved from the Australoid, it means the Australoid race is simply closest to the archaic morphological type.
Different phenotypic traits evolved from archaic humans, in Asia we see certian Mongoloid traits (shovel shaped incisors, inca bone, slanted eyes) having evolved more than 500,000 years ago. In Europe we now know that Neanderthals were red haired with freckles (DNA tests on forty-three-thousand-year-old Neanderthals from El Sidrón cave, in northern Spain, revealed a pigmentation MICR gene).
quote:More absurdity, so how do you account for the "Negroid" phenotype of Oceanic populations who have been outside of Africa for some 60-80ky or more?
The only Oceanic populations with Negroid features are the Negritos. How they got those traits is still debated. One theory is that it occured through insular dwarfism.
quote:So although we know EEMH were just arriving in Europe during these times in the upper Paleolithic, exhibiting their still tropical body plans, they were proto "Caucasoids" how does that work? Lol
Your theory entirely rests on the Out of Africa model, which is pure hypothetical. Cro-Magnon were thin nosed, orthognathic and straight-wavy haired. None of those features are Negroid, non-white or 'tropical'.
quote:Like I asked "burntice" you do know the connections EUP had with Mechtoids and Mechta Afalou from north Africa as well as with the skull from Hofmeyr South Africa right?
Mechtoids were proto-Caucasoid. For papers see here -
There is no debate that mechtoid crania shows strongest similarities to modern Caucasoid.
quote:Cite this evidence please.
Cavalli-Sforza, L. Luca; Menozzi, Paolo; Alberto, Piazza (1994). The History and Geography of Human Genes. Princeton NJ: Princeton University Press. p. 280.
Theres loads more sources for basque-cro-magnon online if you just search in google.
============
Cro-Magnon traits exist in modern Caucasoid subraces across Europe, not just the Basques who have retained the closest Cro-Magnon features.
Depigmentated Cro-Magnons such as Cro-Magnids proper (as exemplified by Dalo-Falids and "Brünns") are unreduced, somewhat gracilized and have narrower faces than their Upper Paleolithic ancestors. Other populations have experienced deviant evolutionary processes, leading to specializations like reduction and brachycephalization (Borreby, Alpinid and Baltid). Sporadic survivals of an eastern "pre-balticized" Cro-Magnid, similar to the western forms, may be found throughout predominantly Baltid populations. ========
Unreduced and depigmented northern European Upper Paleolithic survivor of Cro-Magnid type, similar to the Irish "Brünn". The Dalo-Falid type is prevalent in northern Germany, and constitutes an important element in southern Scandinavia (incl. Lundman's Västmanland type).
Dalo-Falid Cro-Magnid:
Depigmentated Cro-Magnid:
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): Well atleast you're not arguing for 50ky old "Caucasians", that's a start, but to say other present day phenotypes weren't around see below question.
Australoids have retained the most archaic homo features, they also have the lowest IQ's and they still live in stone age type society.
Back to reality. On cranio-facial charts Australians, Melanesians, Andaman Islanders etc..all cluster next to the stereotypical Negroid phenotype, show me one chart that says otherwise.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Different phenotypic traits evolved from archaic humans, in Asia we see certian Mongoloid traits (shovel shaped incisors, inca bone, slanted eyes) having evolved more than 500,000 years ago.
Now you're arguing for multi-regionalism which has been thoroughly refuted by bio-antrhopological data, sorry but Asians do not descend from any hominid in Asia 500kya.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: In Europe we now know that Neanderthals were red haired with freckles (DNA tests on forty-three-thousand-year-old Neanderthals from El Sidrón cave, in northern Spain, revealed a pigmentation MICR gene).
Ok, and? Europeans don't descend from Neanderthals as proven by the sources I cited from T. Holliday.
"These results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions."---T. Holliday
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides:
quote:More absurdity, so how do you account for the "Negroid" phenotype of Oceanic populations who have been outside of Africa for some 60-80ky or more?
The only Oceanic populations with Negroid features are the Negritos. How they got those traits is still debated. One theory is that it occured through insular dwarfism.
So dwarfism makes a "Negroid" now? You make no sense.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides:
quote:So although we know EEMH were just arriving in Europe during these times in the upper Paleolithic, exhibiting their still tropical body plans, they were proto "Caucasoids" how does that work? Lol
Your theory entirely rests on the Out of Africa model, which is pure hypothetical.
What's so hypothetical about genetic and anthropological data that shows time and time again over and over without a doubt that humans came from Africa?
Lol show me one bio-anthropological data that says otherwise.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Cro-Magnon were thin nosed, orthognathic and straight-wavy haired. None of those features are Negroid, non-white or 'tropical'.
Meanwhile, Cro-Magnon as shown to you above in the sources cited above was actually tropically adapted when they reached Europe, keep dreaming lol.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides:
quote:Like I asked "burntice" you do know the connections EUP had with Mechtoids and Mechta Afalou from north Africa as well as with the skull from Hofmeyr South Africa right?
Mechtoids were proto-Caucasoid. For papers see here -
I knew you had to be getting your info from a pseudo site, instead of actual anthropologists who conduct these studies. Try that.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides:
quote:Cite this evidence please.
Cavalli-Sforza, L. Luca; Menozzi, Paolo; Alberto, Piazza (1994). The History and Geography of Human Genes. Princeton NJ: Princeton University Press. p. 280.
A later paper from C.L. Brace 2006 says differently,
When the Basques are run with the other samples used in Fig. 1, they link with Germany and more remotely with the Canary Islands. They are clearly European although the length of their twig indicates that they have a distinction all their own. It is clear, however, that they do not represent a survival of the kind of craniofacial form indicated by Cro-Magnon any more than do the Canary Islanders, nor does either sample tie in with the Berbers of North Africa as has previously been claimed (37, 44-45). …
To test the analysis shown in Fig. 3, Cro-Magnon, represented by the x in Fig. 4, was removed from the European Upper Palaeolithic sample and run as a single individual. Interestingly enough, Cro-Magnon is not close to any more recent sample.
"Clearly Cro-Magnon is not the same as the Basque or Canary Island samples. Fig. 4 plots the first and second canonical variates against each other, but that conclusion is even more strongly supported when canonical variate 3 (not shown here) is plotted with variate 1. If this analysis shows nothing else, it demonstrates that the oft-repeated European feeling that the Cro-Magnons are “us” (46) is more a product of anthropological folklore than the result of the metric data available from the skeletal remains..."
^As noted above from Sforza you're repeating anthropological folklore instead of actual results from skeletal remains. Too bad for you.
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In other words you descend from a Black African who adapted to the cooler climates of Europe, making you a Nigger in origin.
Negroids are a recent mutation, Caucasoid are far older.
Enjoy -
''True Black Africans appear as a recent adaptive radiation apparently branching off from an ancestral Pygmy population — a line of ancestry also indicated by osteological data (Coon 1962:651-656; Watson et al. 1996). This radiation seems to have occurred somewhere in West Africa. Before the Bantu expansion about 3,000 years ago, true Black Africans were absent from the continent's central, eastern, and southern regions (Cavalli-Sforza 1986:361-362; Oliver 1966). They were also absent from the middle Nile until about 4,000 years ago, at which time they begin to appear in paintings from Pharaonic Egypt and in skeletal remains from Nubia (Junker 1921).'' [/QB]
In studies of craniometry and osteology all remains from a particular culture or time period are grouped together and measured as if they are all the same race. They don't take into account that they may be of mixed race, like the Grimaldi's were. Taken separately, the indices of individuals would show a difference, instead of averaging everything together. There isn't enough remains from the period of 50-40 ka to even get a clear picture from the osteolgical results. The genetic evidence doesn't show any evidence of migration straight from Africa to Europe between 50-40 ka. The only evidence for a migration Out of Africa that effected the gene pool of Europe after this period was c. 7000 BC which was E-M78. The only other migration Out of Africa into Asia before 7000 BC was the migration of Y-DNA Hg CF and DE 65,000 years ago. So the only places the first Europeans could have come from was the Middle East, Central Asia, or South Asia.
Posts: 171 | From: Florida | Registered: Aug 2011
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I think the two Grimaldi's were mixed descendants of the Khoisan-types (Hg CF,DE) and the first Caucasians (Hg F,K) because their Gravettian culture is associated with the Middle East at that time.
Posts: 171 | From: Florida | Registered: Aug 2011
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): Back to reality. On cranio-facial charts Australians, Melanesians, Andaman Islanders etc..all cluster next to the stereotypical Negroid phenotype, show me one chart that says otherwise.
Australoids don't. The only similarity to Negroids and Australoids is the dark pigmentation and prognathism. They differ in hair texture, body hair, nasal bridge among many other traits.
The distribution of hair in Australoids and Caucasoid is identical: ''Their beard and body hair is distributed as in Caucasoids'' (Coon, The Living Races of Man, 1965, p. 12).
quote:Now you're arguing for multi-regionalism which has been thoroughly refuted by bio-antrhopological data, sorry but Asians do not descend from any hominid in Asia 500kya.
Multiregionalism has not been refuted. In fact most Out of Africa proponents have been forced to accept tenets of it through hybrid/admixture theories regarding Neanderthal and the Denisova.
quote:Ok, and? Europeans don't descend from Neanderthals as proven by the sources I cited from T. Holliday.
I don't see how those sources disprove the idea Cro-Magnon's evolved from Neanderthal. Here is an article explaining the diversity among Neanderthals -
They were split into three or more subraces. The Western Europeans were lighter skinned, red haired and freckled but the more southern types were darker skinned, and probably had different morphological features.
The studies you posted were printed 10 or more years before this discovery of diverse racial features among the Neanderthals.
There are numerous crania labeled as Neanderthal-Cro-Magnon intermediates e.g. skhul.
But anyway you keep ignoring the fact that Cro-Magnon are closest to Caucasoids -
Howells (1997) -
''If Upper Paleolithic people were "European" from about 35,000 B.P., then such population distinctions are at least that old. And the Cro-Magnons were already racially European, i.e., Caucasoid. This has always been accepted because of the general appearance of the skulls: straight faces, narrow noses, and so forth. It is also possible to test this arithmetically. [...] Except for Predmosti 4, which is distant from every present and past population, all of these skulls show themselves to be closer to "Europeans" than to other peoples — Mladec and Abri Pataud comfortably so, the other two much more remotely.''
quote:^As noted above from Sforza you're repeating anthropological folklore instead of actual results from skeletal remains. Too bad for you.
Jantz and Owsley (2003) -
''it is evident that those skulls expressing Norse affinity are the most complete and have the highest number of measurements (x̄ = 50.8), while those expressing affinity to African populations (Bushman or Zulu) are the most incomplete, averaging just 16.8 measurements per skull. Use of highly incomplete or reconstructed crania may not yield a good estimate of their morphometric affinities. When one considers only those crania with 40 or more measurements, a majority express European affinity.
The results presented in Table 1 are consistent with the idea that Upper Paleolithic crania are, for the most part, larger and more generalized versions of recent Europeans. Howells (1995) reached a similar conclusion with respect to European Mesolithic crania.''
=====
Cro-Magnon were closest to modern Caucasoid. They were orthognathic, straight haired and thin nosed.
Good luck finding a straight haired thin nosed Negroid with a straight jaw. Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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"At no point in their genetic history have Europeans ever formed a single genetic population. They are a potpourri of people patrilineally and matrilineally."
I disagree. The First Caucasians were Y-Hg F and K and all their descendants Hg G,H,I,J,L,P,Q,R and T were also Caucasians. Except where they migrated into areas of other races.
Posts: 171 | From: Florida | Registered: Aug 2011
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quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: To Agueybana:
In studies of craniometry and osteology all remains from a particular culture or time period are grouped together and measured as if they are all the same race. They don't take into account that they may be of mixed race, like the Grimaldi's were.
Proven by what up to date anthropological accounts are you going by that EEMH were of mixed race?
quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: Taken separately, the indices of individuals would show a difference, instead of averaging everything together.
All EEMH showed tropical body plans in the early European upper Paleloithic, sorry this is just one fact you have to comes to terms with, I already provided the sources. Where are your counters?
quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: There isn't enough remains from the period of 50-40 ka to even get a clear picture from the osteolgical results.
All European remains that have been gathered starting since A.M.H reached Europe from the EUP to the LUP down to the MES, your objection to not enough remains is bogus in this context.
quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: The genetic evidence doesn't show any evidence of migration straight from Africa to Europe between 50-40 ka.
The tropical body plans show that the earliest European modern humans were from Africa, can you read?
quote: Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins. T W Holliday
Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow. Following these observations, competing models of modern human origins yield different predictions concerning body proportion shifts in Late Pleistocene Europe. Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess "tropical" body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering. This study tests these predictions via analyses of osteometric data reflective of trunk height and breadth, limb proportions and relative body mass for samples of Early Upper Paleolithic (EUP), Late Upper Paleolithic (LUP) and Mesolithic (MES) humans and 13 recent African and European populations. Results reveal a clear tendency for the EUP sample to cluster with recent Africans, while LUP and MES samples cluster with recent Europeans. These results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions. These data do not, however, preclude the possibility of some (albeit small) contribution of genes from Neandertals to succeeding populations, as is postulated in Bräuer's "Afro-European Sapiens" model.
quote:Brachial and crural indices of European late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic humans.
T W Holliday
Among recent humans brachial and crural indices are positively correlated with mean annual temperature, such that high indices are found in tropical groups. However, despite inhabiting glacial Europe, the Upper Paleolithic Europeans possessed high indices, prompting Trinkaus (1981) to argue for gene flow from warmer regions associated with modern human emergence in Europe. In contrast, Frayer et al.(1993) point out that Late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic Europeans should not exhibit tropically-adapted limb proportions, since, even assuming replacement, their ancestors had experienced cold stress in glacial Europe for at least 12 millennia. This study investigates three questions tied to the brachial and crural indices among Late Pleistocene and recent humans. First, which limb segments (either proximal or distal) are primarily responsible for variation in brachial and crural indices? Second, are these indices reflective of overall limb elongation? And finally, do the Late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic Europeans retain relatively and/or absolutely long limbs? Results indicate that in the lower limb, the distal limb segment contributes most of the variability to intralimb proportions, while in the upper limb the proximal and distal limb segments appear to be equally variable. Additionally, brachial and crural indices do not appear to be a good measure of overall limb length, and thus, while the Late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic humans have significantly higher (i.e., tropically-adapted) brachial and crural indices than do recent Europeans, they also have shorter (i.e., cold-adapted) limbs. The somewhat paradoxical retention of "tropical" indices in the context of more "cold-adapted" limb length is best explained as evidence for Replacement in the European Late Pleistocene, followed by gradual cold adaptation in glacial Europe.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): Back to reality. On cranio-facial charts Australians, Melanesians, Andaman Islanders etc..all cluster next to the stereotypical Negroid phenotype, show me one chart that says otherwise.
Australoids don't.
Meanwhile back to reality...
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides:
quote:Now you're arguing for multi-regionalism which has been thoroughly refuted by bio-antrhopological data, sorry but Asians do not descend from any hominid in Asia 500kya.
Multiregionalism has not been refuted. In fact most Out of Africa proponents have been forced to accept tenets of it through hybrid/admixture theories regarding Neanderthal and the Denisova.
The insignificant geneflow from Neanderthals does nothing to upset the fact that anatomically modern humans outside of Africa, descend from Africans, sorry but wishful thinking will not change this fact. As such, the whole modern genome of humans inside and outside of Africa can be traced back to Africa save for a 0-4% admixture in non Africans from Neanderthal. Which as shown here below had no impact on anatomically modern humans...
quote:Ok, and? Europeans don't descend from Neanderthals as proven by the sources I cited from T. Holliday.
I don't see how those sources disprove the idea Cro-Magnon's evolved from Neanderthal. Here is an article explaining the diversity among Neanderthals -
Because Neanderthals were cold adapted and the first anatomically modern humans in Europe were tropically adapted ya fool lol.
"Following these observations, competing models of modern human origins yield different predictions concerning body proportion shifts in Late Pleistocene Europe. Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess "tropical" body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering..[..]Results reveal a clear tendency for the EUP sample to cluster with recent Africans, while LUP and MES samples cluster with recent Europeans. These results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions. These data do not, however, preclude the possibility of some (albeit small) contribution of genes from Neandertals to succeeding populations, as is postulated in Bräuer's "Afro-European Sapiens" model."---T. Holliday
^^Your argument is the regional continuity aka multi-regional hypothesis, the fact that all early European modern humans instead cluster with recent tropical Africans, while neanderthals were cold adapted tells us the regional continuity is bogus.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: But anyway you keep ignoring the fact that Cro-Magnon are closest to Caucasoids -
Like I said and so does anthropologist C.L. Brace...
"Clearly Cro-Magnon is not the same as the Basque or Canary Island samples. Fig. 4 plots the first and second canonical variates against each other, but that conclusion is even more strongly supported when canonical variate 3 (not shown here) is plotted with variate 1. If this analysis shows nothing else, it demonstrates that the oft-repeated European feeling that the Cro-Magnons are “us” (46) is more a product of anthropological folklore than the result of the metric data available from the skeletal remains..."Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
^ In terms of modern races Cro-Magnon looked closest Caucasoid, not Negroid. They had thin noses, straight hair and orthognathic (non-african) skulls.
You are just playing around with words e.g. 'tropically adapted', in no way does that change that the Cro-Magnons looked like this:
It really doesn't matter if they had longer 'tropical' limb proportions, Cro-Magnon are ancestral to Caucasoids.
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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posted
Of course it matters as this implies that tropical peoples had these features way before the phenotype of recent Europeans came about, and that modern Europeans directly descend from humans who entered Europe as Africans, sorry but this fails you in many ways lol.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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I can understand that the Andamanese and Papuans can cluster craniometrically with Sub-Saharan Africans, but Australian Aborigines??? No way, those guys have extremely archaic brow-ridges and head shapes, nothing like Africans.
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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posted
^^Whatever you can or can't understand about it is irrelevant to the point, which is that these individuals who have been out of African for some 60k+ years cluster with the stereotypical "Negroid" phenotype, yet individuals like cassiterides would like one to believe this phenotype is a recent adaptation. You can't have it both ways.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): Of course it matters as this implies that tropical peoples had these features way before the phenotype of recent Europeans came about, and that modern Europeans directly descend from humans who entered Europe as Africans, sorry but this fails you in many ways lol.
There is no such thing as a 'tropical adapted race', this is just some bogus afronut term that has arisen in the last few years. We know the Cro-Magnons were thin nosed with facial structures closest to modern Caucasoids (Whites), in no way were they Negroid. The afronuts themselves know this which is why they are now clinging to terms such as 'tropical adapted', they themselves don't even argue Cro-Magnon were Negroid or Black because they know Cro-Magnons mostly remsebled white people of today. Not sure what the fuss is about.
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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posted
A spade can never today admit they are a spade. Instead blacks today are obsessed with extending their racial category to include other races of dark pigmentation e.g. Australoids, Capoids (Bushmen) and even Indians. Now we have afronuts further claiming they are apart of some pseudoscientifc ''tropical race''. Just because you live in a tropical climate doesn't make you the same race. By the same logic are blonde haired Swedes the same race as the Eskimo inuit just because they live in a cold climate?
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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posted
^Biologially there are no races at all, that's another issue you can create a thread and try to prove, but you can keep wishing there is if it makes u feel better as noted you spout anthroplogical folklore lol.
Tropical body plans is not an Afrocentric term you fool, its a bio-anthropological term which is a death blow to idiotic Eurocentrics like you who live on in anthropological folklore.
Tropical adaptations as noted below;
"Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow."-- T. Holliday
^Read it and weep fool...
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): ^^Whatever you can or can't understand about it is irrelevant to the point, which is that these individuals who have been out of African for some 60k+ years cluster with the stereotypical "Negroid" phenotype, yet individuals like cassiterides would like one to believe this phenotype is a recent adaptation. You can't have it both ways.
Australoids do not cluster with the Negroid phenotype, nor do the Capoids (Bushmen).
Pygmies however do (but they are dwarfs).
Negroids branched off from an ancestral Pygmy population (Coon 1962:651-656; Watson et al. 1996). Prior to around 4,000 years ago, Negroids only inhabited West Africa, they then migrated into the other parts of Africa mixing/replacing with Caucasoids/Capoids.
The Negroids to branch off from the Pygmies were the Paleo-Negrids, who are an intermediate size between the Pygmies and typical Negroid of today.
Paleo-Negrid
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): ^^Whatever you can or can't understand about it is irrelevant to the point, which is that these individuals who have been out of African for some 60k+ years cluster with the stereotypical "Negroid" phenotype, yet individuals like cassiterides would like one to believe this phenotype is a recent adaptation. You can't have it both ways.
Australoids do not cluster with the Negroid phenotype
Meanwhile again, back in reality as shown below Oceanic's cluster with Africa phenotypically.
Next you're going to say the reason New Guinea was named as such wasn't because of Guinea in Africa lol. Quit your bs and face the facts.
Again, if you say this phenotype is a recent adaption, how do you account for these individuals who have been outside of Africa 60+ kya?
Stop squirming.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Manu: Skin tone and lip size for these reconstructions have been inferred based on modern groups.
There is no evidence whatsoever that those people had these soft tissue features.
Despite all that, those reconstructions do not look truly West-Central African to me.
Of course soft tissue parts can only be guessed at and inferred since such features were obviously not preserved. That's besides the point. Why do you think the forensic artists hypothesized such features for the reconstructions? As far as "West-Central Africans", what do they have to do with it except for the fact that they are Africans??
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: ''True Black Africans appear as a recent adaptive radiation apparently branching off from an ancestral Pygmy population — a line of ancestry also indicated by osteological data (Coon 1962:651-656; Watson et al. 1996). This radiation seems to have occurred somewhere in West Africa. Before the Bantu expansion about 3,000 years ago, true Black Africans were absent from the continent's central, eastern, and southern regions (Cavalli-Sforza 1986:361-362; Oliver 1966). They were also absent from the middle Nile until about 4,000 years ago, at which time they begin to appear in paintings from Pharaonic Egypt and in skeletal remains from Nubia (Junker 1921).''
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: There is no such thing as a 'tropical adapted race'
Who said anything about race?? Pay attention the Early Europeans were Tropical Africans..
Once again..
quote:Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenetic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow. Following these observations, competing models of modern human origins yield different predictions concerning body proportion shifts in Late Pleistocene Europe. Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess “tropical” body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering. This study tests these predictions via analyses of osteometric data reflective of trunk height and breadth, limb proportions and relative body mass for samples of Early Upper Paleolithic (EUP), Late Upper Paleolithic (LUP) and Mesolithic (MES) humans and 13 recent African and European populations.Results reveal a clear tendency for the EUP sample to cluster with recent Africans, while LUP and MES samples cluster with recent Europeans. These results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions. These data do not, however, preclude the possibility of some (albeit small) contribution of genes from Neandertals to succeeding populations, as is postulated in Bräuer’s “Afro-European Sapiens” model.
-Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins☆
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: this is just some bogus afronut term that has arisen in the last few years. We know the Cro-Magnons were thin nosed with facial structures closest to modern Caucasoids (Whites), in no way were they Negroid. The afronuts themselves know this which is why they are now clinging to terms such as 'tropical adapted', they themselves don't even argue Cro-Magnon were Negroid or Black because they know Cro-Magnons mostly remsebled white people of today. Not sure what the fuss is about. [/qb]
You are just a typical pseudo scholar, whining about non existant Afrocentrics when the results don't go your way. The people who wrote, Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins Were not Afrocentrics, so if these Early Europeans displayed "Caucasian" features yet had body proportions(Tropical) typical of Tropical Africans what does that say about your "Caucasian" features??
The Truth hurts...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): [QB] rainingburntice,
Below you will be shown how Upper Paleolithic Europeans exhbited tropical body plans well into the Mesolithic insinuating a replacement with A.M.H. coming from Africa coinciding with the genetic record.
How do you define ''tropical body''? What are its features?
Jesus Christ, stop running already bitch and address your quack theories:
"Negroid" = phenotype, however, Negritos = not "negro" because not genetically African. However, genetically African Tutsi, Fulani, Somali not Negroid either.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: You're kidding me right??
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: ''True Black Africans appear as a recent adaptive radiation apparently branching off from an ancestral Pygmy population — a line of ancestry also indicated by osteological data (Coon 1962:651-656; Watson et al. 1996). This radiation seems to have occurred somewhere in West Africa. Before the Bantu expansion about 3,000 years ago, true Black Africans were absent from the continent's central, eastern, and southern regions (Cavalli-Sforza 1986:361-362; Oliver 1966). They were also absent from the middle Nile until about 4,000 years ago, at which time they begin to appear in paintings from Pharaonic Egypt and in skeletal remains from Nubia (Junker 1921).''
^"The Oldest human skeleton found in Egypt". Nazlet Khater man was the earliest modern human skeleton found near Luxor, in 1980. The remains was dated from between 35,000 and 30,000 years ago. The report regarding the racial affinity of this skeleton concludes: "Strong alveolar prognathism combined with fossa praenasalis in an African skull is suggestive of Negroid morphology [form & structure]. The radio-humeral index of Nazlet Khater is practically the same as the mean of Taforalt (76.6). According to Ferembach (1965) this value is near to the Negroid average." The burial was of a young man of 17-20 years old, whose skeleton lay in a 160cm- long narrow ditch aligned from east to west. A flint tool, which was laid carefully on the bottom of the grave, dates the burial as contemporaneous with a nearby flint quarry. Thoma A., Morphology and affinities of the Nazlet Khater man, Journal of Human Evolution, vol 13, 1984.
The male cranium above is from Wadi al-Halfa on the Sudan-Egypt border. Dating from the Mesolithic-Holocene period, it is typical of crania in Sudan and surrounding regions from that time frame. More recent Nubian crania from the Christian period have more rounded skulls without the sloping frontal bone. However, the vertical zygomatic arch, prominent glabella, sagittal plateau, and occipital bun (less pronounced) are retained. The cranium above has pronounced facial prognathism, but moderate dental protrusion. The chin is vertical with a angular mandible and very squat ramus. (Image from David Lee Greene and George Armelagos. The Wadi Halfa mesolithic population. (Amherst: University of Massachusetts, 1972)
^...A recent archaeological study reveals that during a desiccation period in North Africa, while the eastern Sahara was depopulated, a refugium existed on the border of present-day Sudan and Egypt, near Lake Nubia, until the onset of a humid phase around 8500 BC (radiocarbon-calibrated date). The rapid arrival of wet conditions during this Early Holocene period provided an impetus for population movement into habitat that was quickly settled afterwards. Hg E-M78* representatives, although rare overall, still occur in Egypt, which is a hub for the distribution of the various geographically localized M78-related sub-clades. The northward-moving rainfall belts during this period could have also spurred a rapid migration of Mesolithic foragers northwards in Africa, the Levant and ultimately onwards to Asia Minor and Europe, where they each eventually differentiated their regionally distinctive branches.--Battaglia et. al
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): rainingburntice,
Below you will be shown how Upper Paleolithic Europeans exhbited tropical body plans well into the Mesolithic insinuating a replacement with A.M.H. coming from Africa coinciding with the genetic record.
How do you define ''tropical body''? What are its features?
Didn't we answer your question before, like 4 or 5 times?? I swear, you Euronuts have memories as poor as your intellects!
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Yes it is a death blow indeed..it is a fact that Tropical Africans were the ancestors of Modern Europeans...
I repeat a fact..
quote:There are two competing hypotheses to explain the relatively long lower limbs of the earliest modern Europeans. The first follows from Allen's (1877) rule and posits that the long legs are indicative of gene flow from warmer regions at the time of the archaic/modern Homo sapiens transition. The second maintains that the long lower limbs are an adaptive response to selection for locomotor efficiency. This paper tests predictions derived from these two competing hypotheses using anthropometric, residential mobility and climatic data for a sample of 19 recent hunter-gatherer groups. For this sample, there is no relationship between relative lower limb length (as reflected in relative sitting height) and residential mobility.Consequently, the mobility hypothesis can be rejected. However, a significant relationship between climate and relative lower limb length could not be rejected. With regard to Later Pleistocene human evolution, these results are interpreted as evidence for significant gene flow from tropical regions associated with the first appearance of modern humans in Europe.
-Lower limb length of European early modern humans in relation to mobility and climate
Trenton W. Holliday, Anthony B. Falsetti
Did you read that Ca-****, the relationship between Limb proportions and Climate(Tropical) can not be rejected, its a fact son.
quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718):
Tropical body plans is not an Afrocentric term you fool, its a bio-anthropological term which is a death blow to idiotic Eurocentrics like you who live on in anthropological folklore.
Tropical adaptations as noted below;
"Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow."-- T. Holliday
^Read it and weep fool...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Pygmies (Negrillos, Negritos) are dwarfs, they cannot be linked to the standard racial classification. Negroids (Paleo-Negrids) mutated from them in West Africa around 9,000 BC.
Oldest Negroid skull -
Mauny, 1978:
''The oldest-known skeleton of a West African was found in Nigeria at Iwo Eleru; it is of a negroid man and is dated to 9250 ± 150 BC.''
The same conclusion appears in A'frican archaeology 'by D. W. Phillipson, Cambridge University Press, 2005, p. 162.
Somalis are Ethiopids and the Tutsi are Negrid-Ethiopid.
Did you read that Ca-****, the relationship between Limb proportions and Climate(Tropical) can not be rejected, its a fact son.
Never argued against it. I merely stated it clearly is not applicable to race.
We know the Cro-Magnons were straight-wavy haired, thin nosed, orthognathic - like modern Caucasoids.
If you went back in time and met a cro-magnon the closest it would resemble today would be a white european.
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