posted
If humans are a mass of genes and genes are biology which produced the human body how can it not be biological determinism? Is there some other entity, spirits, things that go bump in the night, lurking in the shadows that hop on for the ride that cause humans to screw up and, at other times, do wonderful things? If there is, then why don't scientists admit to it. Where is the proof; what is it?
If the environment explanation is offered, is it smarter than biology, or dumber? A well-trained psychologist who stays up late at night may have some kind of answer but still won't be able to explain why it isn't biology that sets things in motion. Don't we all know biology came first. Shouldn't we be agreeing on first things instead of additions later on, that is, the environment.
There is nothing the environment can manipulate without biology knowing about it first.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:If humans are a mass of genes and genes are biology which produced the human body how can it not be biological determinism?
What is it, that you are referring to?
Human behavior?
The reason that human behavior is not pre-determined by biology, is that humans are intelligent.
Intelligent behavior is denoted by the freedom and ability of the organsism to change its behavior in response to, or even in anticipation of the environment.
Intelligence is contrasted in biology with instinct.
Instinct is pre-determined genetic response behavior that cannot be modified by the organism, short of genetic alteration.
Instinct can be predicated by biology.
Intellect cannot.
If you disagree - don't talk, prove it.
Prove that by identifying a peson as Indo-European, or African, you can then make inferences about the functioning of their penal gland - and then determine what their BE-HAV-IOR in life is going to be.
Now, this is my last response on this off-topic, which I usually chose not to contribute to at all.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: [QUOTE]Prove that by identifying a peson as Indo-European, or African, you can then make inferences about the functioning of their penal gland
Evergreen Writes:
This has allready been definitivly proven on this forum. Europeans have higher rates of pineal calcification than Blacks due to Ice Age adaptation and lack of Vitamin D via sunlight.
quote:Originally posted by rasol: [QUOTE].... determine what their BE-HAV-IOR in life is going to be.
Evergreen Writes:
You cannot determine what their behavior in life will be. What you can do is determine natural proclivities due to brain structure and design.
quote:Originally posted by rasol: [QUOTE].... Now, this is my last response on this off-topic, which I usually chose not to contribute to at all.
Evergreen Writes:
This thread is no more off-topic than the long-winded, repetitive threads on haplogroup E3b*.
Again, just because a topic is taboo or because we may not be confortable with the outcome of the discourse should in no way compel us to aviod discussion on a given topic.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I said this: If humans are a mass of genes and genes are biology which produced the human body how can it not be biological determinism?
then Rasol wants to know: ''What is it, that you are referring to?
Human behavior?''
Yes, plain and simple.
He goes on to give his specific answer below without knowledge of how this intelligence came to be without biology in the first place.
''The reason that human behavior is not pre-determined by biology, is that humans are intelligent.''
If Rasol thinks humans can be intelligent without biology then I would like to see his or someone else's scientific report he used to arrive at this far-fetched conclusion. Now if he wants to resort to this: Is there some other entity, spirits, things that go bump in the night, lurking in the shadows that hop on for the ride that cause humans to screw up and, at other times, do wonderful things? If there is, then why don't scientists admit to it. Where is the proof; what is it?'' then all he has to do is own up to it and show us his proof.
''Intelligent behavior is denoted by the freedom and ability of the organsism to change its behavior in response to, or even in anticipation of the environment.''
And you are still talking biology, which is what I said initially.
''Intelligence is contrasted in biology with instinct.''
Add all the contrasting you want Rasol nothing will change the biological fact of what I said earlier.
''Instinct is pre-determined genetic response behavior that cannot be modified by the organism, short of genetic alteration.''
This is an admission of acknowlegement, just as I said.
Some more of that biological determinism ain't it.
''Instinct cab be predicated by biology
Intellect cannot.
If you disagree - don't talk, prove it.''
See:''Is there....''
And yes, I do disagree but there is nothing to prove; you already said it was biology but your way of expressing it didn't serve your argument well at all. I know you can't prove it either and your responses indicate that all to clearly.
''Prove that by identifying a peson as Indo-European, or African, you can then make inferences about the functioning of their penal gland - and then determine what their BE-HAV-IOR in life is going to be.''
I anticipated that from you because of the way you responded to Evergreen's initial comment on this when he pressed you a bit. You then crafted your reply to give yourself some room to maneuver. However, in this recent move, you aren't manuevering, you're using the same paint bucket another poster has used on several occasions.
Finally, you could have better served your position by adding humanity as a species in terms of disposition but you chose to erroneously cling to what you offered as a racialist view. It has nothing at all to do with any specific group.
And yes I'm off topic and will get back on it right away by asking, again (another topic somewhere), who, specifically, is Set/h... besides what he is supposed to represent and his battles with Horus?
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:If humans are a mass of genes and genes are biology which produced the human body how can it not be biological determinism?
What is it, that you are referring to?
Human behavior?
The reason that human behavior is not pre-determined by biology, is that humans are intelligent.
Intelligent behavior is denoted by the freedom and ability of the organsism to change its behavior in response to, or even in anticipation of the environment.
Intelligence is contrasted in biology with instinct.
Instinct is pre-determined genetic response behavior that cannot be modified by the organism, short of genetic alteration.
Instinct can be predicated by biology.
Intellect cannot.
If you disagree - don't talk, prove it.
Prove that by identifying a peson as Indo-European, or African, you can then make inferences about the functioning of their penal gland - and then determine what their BE-HAV-IOR in life is going to be.
Now, this is my last response on this off-topic, which I usually chose not to contribute to at all.
Indeed what Evergreen and few others fail to realize is that such beliefs of biological determinism underlie racial science and was the very root of racist assumptions backed up by 'science'.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^Man, read about three different sections / events in Stephen J. Gould's Mismeasure of Man and boy did those scientists big-heads bias's mess up their conclusions! In some cases, they seemingly did not conciously know about their errors.
quote:Originally posted by Grumman f6f: I said this: If humans are a mass of genes and genes are biology which produced the human body how can it not be biological determinism?
then Rasol wants to know: ''What is it, that you are referring to?
Human behavior?''
Yes, plain and simple.
He goes on to give his specific answer below without knowledge of how this intelligence came to be without biology in the first place.
''The reason that human behavior is not pre-determined by biology, is that humans are intelligent.''
If Rasol thinks humans can be intelligent without biology then I would like to see his or someone else's scientific report he used to arrive at this far-fetched conclusion. Now if he wants to resort to this: Is there some other entity, spirits, things that go bump in the night, lurking in the shadows that hop on for the ride that cause humans to screw up and, at other times, do wonderful things? If there is, then why don't scientists admit to it. Where is the proof; what is it?'' then all he has to do is own up to it and show us his proof.
''Intelligent behavior is denoted by the freedom and ability of the organsism to change its behavior in response to, or even in anticipation of the environment.''
And you are still talking biology, which is what I said initially.
''Intelligence is contrasted in biology with instinct.''
Add all the contrasting you want Rasol nothing will change the biological fact of what I said earlier.
''Instinct is pre-determined genetic response behavior that cannot be modified by the organism, short of genetic alteration.''
This is an admission of acknowlegement, just as I said.
Some more of that biological determinism ain't it.
''Instinct cab be predicated by biology
Intellect cannot.
If you disagree - don't talk, prove it.''
See:''Is there....''
And yes, I do disagree but there is nothing to prove; you already said it was biology but your way of expressing it didn't serve your argument well at all. I know you can't prove it either and your responses indicate that all to clearly.
''Prove that by identifying a peson as Indo-European, or African, you can then make inferences about the functioning of their penal gland - and then determine what their BE-HAV-IOR in life is going to be.''
I anticipated that from you because
Grumman's next post is predetermined by his biology which is pretetermined by the sub atomic particles which are made up of baryons, and such.
No matter what environment, even if gunman tell him not to post or else someone might be shot in the head, Mr. McGrummns is still gonna post a simpleton reply because he is a simpleton.
(Now follow my logic, which is Grumman's logic)
This is because atoms are responsable for Grummans biology which is responsable for him and his actions. Yup.
And since the world's history is dictated by atoms, no matter what one would have done if they went back in a time machine, nothing would change history,
not even killing the genetic adam ... but wait, that would change our biology, which would change us and our history ... b-but wait ... Na I'm sure I'm right.
Confusion, and oftentimes twisting, is what happens when someone isn't [biologically?] intelligent enough to read and comprehend what someone else is saying, without adding things from their own imagination.
Didn't mean to be a smart-ass, but twisting gets tiring after a while.
You know, my bench press three years from now is determined biologically, so I better not do any excersising.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QUOTE]Indeed what Evergreen and few others fail to realize is that such beliefs of biological determinism underlie racial science and was the very root of racist assumptions backed up by 'science'.
Evergreen Writes:
This is a good example of "drive-by" posting. Instead of providing an accurate definition of "biological determinism" and linking my comments to it Djehuti chooses to use a smear tactic debate sytle. Very weak.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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''Confusion, and oftentimes twisting, is what happens when someone isn't [biologically?] intelligent enough to read and comprehend what someone else is saying, without adding things from their own imagination.''
Your imagination works for you too since comprehension deserted you.
Tell me what it is you're having trouble with Box. I'm sure your inner workings have revealed it to you but I see no evidence that you're setting it down in print.
''Didn't mean to be a smart-ass, but twisting gets tiring after a while.''
After all that commenting you posted above you tell me, ''Didn't mean to be a smart ass.'' Is this some of that ''well I could but I don't know for sure'' stuff? All you owe yourself is articulation and decisiveness and you ran right past them both.
''You know, my bench press three years from now is determined biologically, so I better not do any excersising.''
I know what your aim is here but you didn't word it right Box. The first part has nothing to do with the last. Furthermore our dialog from that months ago topic still hasn't helped you understand anything that was said way back then as evidenced by you dragging it out for further embarrassment to yourself. Give it up brother.
Now, since I'm the last on this topic, I'll get it back once again by asking you:''Who, specifically, is Set/h... besides what he is supposed to represent and his battles with Horus?''
Tho' down some links for me.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Into the New Kingdom with the rise of the cult of Wesir, which posited Set (as lord of the desert which crept into the arable land at the end of every year) as the "murderer" of the Lord of the Black Land, Set was literally demonized
Should read:
"'murderer' of the Great Black -> the Lord of the Blacks, represented by the black, and thereby fertile soil."
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Evergreen Writes:
Of interest is the fact that the word analytical shares a common eytmological basis with the word anus. When one is in fear one clinches the anus. The diminishment of right-brain functionality (intuition, etc) may be a source of Western Man's anxiety (fear). Compare Freuds "A Phylogenic Fantasy" to Malcom Gladwells "Blink". His response mechanism could have caused him to rely more heavily on the left-brain and dissolution oriented thought-patterns. Instead of seeing the world in a holistic way he deconstructs things to learn of the nature of things.
As he came down through the Caucus Mountains and interacted with the Black Civilizations of the southern cradle he would naturally **distinguish** himself from the Black people because of his left-brain orientation. Hence, soon after melanin based caste systems may have been established by these war-like, charriot-riding invaders.
Our ancestors may be telling us something through the association of the archetype - Set.
That's a really good, interesting book (read it for skoo in 10th).
I loved the book about 'thin slicing' (systematization of learning what was relevant, verses what isn't), and how some of us may actually automatically subcontiously learn this, and quick thin slicing can serve you better than deliberating. I found the prejudice section intriguing, relevant, and true/realistic (but the height prejudice part I found plain funny).
On the subject of the West, I believe you could be on to something with that post, ... I wouldn't say blacks aren't analytic, oh quite contrary - not that that was the point of this thread, I read your post, just clarifying -
but I have noticed white people that can't even comprehend that science isn't about what's "fact" but logic and probability, as if what's "fact" is fact, true truth, reality etc <- they don't realize that science is estiments, closing the margin between where we are and truth, and seem to be more inclined to implement concepts than to learn general concepts -> in my definition of intuitive, it's someone who can comprehend general concepts rather than specific details which are more useful in technical or mechanic fields.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Interesting, now I was told by some Afrocentrics that Greeks got the word "ATOM" from the God "ATUM" in Egypt.
I looked up the etymology and Atom comes from "Atomos" which means "to cut or to slice". Is this the beginning of science? Is this left brained way of the thinking paramount for scientific studies? Have cold adapted people raised the consciousness of the world by being so left brained and "slicing/cutting" man from nature?
Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
^You're making a connection between the etymology of "atom" and modern chemistry ... without establishing evidence for the connection; whether or not said word has it's origins in Kemet doesn't determine whether all "science" comes from Kemet.
posted
You need to re-read what I posted youngling.
Your retort doesn't logically follow my question.
Take a deep breath and RE-READ, because you don't understand the basis of the "question". It's not about Greece or Egypt it is about the contribution of "left brained(cold adapted) thinking"
I like you, you are a young man and it figures that you are a mulatto because you act like mixed people with black in them. You seek to learn which is good, but you often make a lot of mistakes and you anticipate too much and jump to wrong conclusions.
You are young dude; SLOW DOWN and try to be more perspicacious about issues.
Maybe because you are a mulatto(half black and half white) your tropically adapted and cold adapted brain is in conflict with each other lol!!!
I am going to name you ICARUS; the Greek personage in the myth about flying to close to the Sun lol.
And please stop dog-tailing other posters with snide-out-of-the-side-of-your-mouth comments, that is very immature.