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Well of course moving the goal posts is the only thing that Yonis aka "Roach Daddy" can do. It's what he does when he receives intellectual thrashings. The only thing he can do is flail around in utter desperation. LOL!
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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I dare you to find another pic of real somalis carrying europeans or anything similar to that, i will even give you 100 dollars (i swear to Allah), do you accept paypal?
Tell you what, I'll do something even better, heres a picture of you doing what you do best when you get caught with your pants down.
quote:argedly wrote: Well of course moving the goal posts is the only thing that Yonis aka "Roach Daddy" can do. It's what he does when he receives intellectual thrashings. The only thing he can do is flail around in utter desperation. LOL!
Hey kunta kinte, are you still a cripple after your toes were hacked with an axe when you got caught escaping, or do you use wheelchair these days?
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Akoben wrote: you get caught with your pants down.
Why don't you do yourself a favour (instead of wasting time talking trash) by taking a break today and use your time on learning how to manage the quote function. After 350+ posts you are still incapable of utilizing the basic features of this forum, it says alot about you. Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Why don't you do yourself a favour (instead of wasting time talking trash) by taking a break today and use your time on learning how to manage the quote function. After 350+ posts you are still incapable of utilizing the basic features of this forum, it says alot about you.
^ After 716 you still haven't learnt anything on ES. Now don't let me call Horn to embarrass you again. LOL
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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Why don't you PM Horn and ask him for his details, you seem to be fond of him, just PM him no need to use me as middleman to convey your attraction. Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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This is stupid. Mali was built using indigenous technology by the indigenous Black people of West Africa.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: Why don't you do yourself a favour (instead of wasting time talking trash) by taking a break today and use your time on learning how to manage the quote function. After 350+ posts you are still incapable of utilizing the basic features of this forum, it says alot about you.
^ After 716 you still haven't learnt anything on ES. Now don't let me call Horn to embarrass you again. LOL
quote:Osiron wrote: This is stupid. Mali was built using indigenous technology by the indigenous Black people of West Africa.
And you are a Khazar jew who should focus on the khazars. I never understood why you Ashkenazi don't feel ashamed killing palestinian kids while at the same time praying to their ancient gods, WHY?.
Osiron when are you gonnaa leave palestine and go back to khazakistan or atleast Russia/poland? The closest thing you are to the hebrews of the temple period is probably your Falasha blood.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: This man is NOT a real Tuareg, lol Anyone can see that he'a a naturalized tuareg, hes physically not build for the sahara desert.
Here is how the Tuareg clans are divided.
- lmajeren (the nobles), former warriors who today constitute a very small minority;
- lneselmen (the religious), literally meaning Muslims, in charge of law and Muslim traditions. This is a clear indication of the secular nature of the Tuareg society;
- lmrad (free men);
- Iklan (slaves) or former slaves descendants of the captives. The latter, known as Bella in Mali and Bouzou in Niger, are of black or half-cast origin. Today they form a sizeable part of the Tuareg society and, like their former masters, they speak Tamasheq. The lklan, however, are distinguished by a number of categories:
- The lderfen, often settled and freed for several generations;
- The lborroliten, half-cast born of marriage between lmrad and lklan. They are freed by their parents;
- The Iklan-n-Eguef (captives of the dunes), shepherds and cultivators of lmajeren;
- The tent Iklan, servants living with their masters.
LOL... 1. Which clan does the man above belong to, Yonis? Can you tell based on his appearance?
2. Doesn't matter since most Tuareg in Mali look like him and you're reduced to passing off recent Kunta as some sort of remnant of medieval Tuareg in Mali who went by the moniker of "Es Sudane" ("the Blacks") according to the Arabs who were present there.
I missed this post.
First of all not most of Tuareg in Mali look like him, we all know how Tuaregs are and there are plenty of them in Mali, so don't even try to imply that the man above is originally a Tuareg.
And secondly i provided you a list of the division of their clans, and from that list you can chose yourself as to what clan he belongs to.
posted
Clearly he never said all Tuareg looks like him, my god the post is right in front of you! But now you want us to believe "authentic Tuaregs" are light and brown skinned? Give me break Yonis, your anti-black self hatred knows no depths.
wow! you changed your post from "all"! lol
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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The point is that Tuaregs do not all have the same look. The tuaregs of southern Algeria are VERY DARK . MUCH of North Africa has had interaction with various groups over the years, but the ORIGINAL population of Northern Africa and the Sahara WAS BLACK. Tuareg is an ethnicity and culture NOT A LOOK, therefore you have lighter skinned Tuaregs, darker skinned Tuaregs and so forth. Not ironically, the dark skinned Tuaregs of Southern Algeria are NORTH of those in Mali.
You mix ancestry with culture and language and try and pass them off as the same. If a white woman (or a few white women) marry into a Tuareg clan their children are considered Tuareg, even IF they have European ancestry. Tuaregs are not a monolithic group by ANY stretch of the imagination.
There are lighter skinned Africans ALL ACROSS the Sahel from the Western Sahara to Sudan. It has NOTHING to do with being a Tuareg or Berber, it has to do with the fact that there HAS BEEN diversity in the region in terms of ANCESTRY, which DOES NOT have anything to do with language or culture. But the point is this, the ORIGINAL Saharans and Berbers were PREDOMINANTLY BLACK Africans to begin with and the later diversity is a result of contact with European, Arab and other populations over the last 2,000 years. And keep in mind that if you STUDY the history of the Sanhaja Federation you will SEE that THEY TOO were arabized and DEFEATED by VARIOUS ARAB GROUPS. So you can keep that NONSENSE about Tuaregs being PURE and not affected by Arabization to yourself. Some Tuaregs in the North have more Arab ancestry than others, just like some people called Moors have more Arab or European ancestry and some Berbers have more Arab or European ancestry and some Ethiopians have more Arab ancestry. But that does not change the fact that ALL of these populations are descended from PRIMARILY BLACK AFRICANS.
Posts: 8897 | Registered: May 2005
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^ Alive Box posted a picture of you in a blue base ball cap and that man on the left looks nothing like you. Your attempt to lighten African history is BS and you know it.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: ^ Alive Box posted a picture of you in a blue base ball cap and that man looks nothing like you. Your attempt to lighten African history is BS and you know it.
Yes he does i think i would know how i look like And that pic with me on a cap is 3 years old, that guy has the same type of forhead and chick bone as me, but my nose and mouth is more like the one in second pic.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: This man is NOT a real Tuareg, lol Anyone can see that he'a a naturalized tuareg, hes physically not build for the sahara desert.
Here is how the Tuareg clans are divided.
- lmajeren (the nobles), former warriors who today constitute a very small minority;
- lneselmen (the religious), literally meaning Muslims, in charge of law and Muslim traditions. This is a clear indication of the secular nature of the Tuareg society;
- lmrad (free men);
- Iklan (slaves) or former slaves descendants of the captives. The latter, known as Bella in Mali and Bouzou in Niger, are of black or half-cast origin. Today they form a sizeable part of the Tuareg society and, like their former masters, they speak Tamasheq. The lklan, however, are distinguished by a number of categories:
- The lderfen, often settled and freed for several generations;
- The lborroliten, half-cast born of marriage between lmrad and lklan. They are freed by their parents;
- The Iklan-n-Eguef (captives of the dunes), shepherds and cultivators of lmajeren;
- The tent Iklan, servants living with their masters.
LOL... 1. Which clan does the man above belong to, Yonis? Can you tell based on his appearance?
2. Doesn't matter since most Tuareg in Mali look like him and you're reduced to passing off recent Kunta as some sort of remnant of medieval Tuareg in Mali who went by the moniker of "Es Sudane" ("the Blacks") according to the Arabs who were present there.
I missed this post.
First of all not most of Tuareg in Mali look like him, we all know how Tuaregs are and there are plenty of them in Mali, so don't even try to imply that the man above is originally a Tuareg.
And secondly i provided you a list of the division of their clans, and from that list you can chose yourself as to what clan he belongs to.
Here are more authentic Tuaregs of Mali.
You're obviously not interested in a substantive discussion on the demographics of Mali, past and present. You have given us your clan list, but no definitive references to back your assertion that THOSE people are any more "authentic" than say, the majority of Tuareg whom are diverse, but for the most part resemble other west Africans in Mali..
Duly noted that your picture spam comes to no avail seeing as how previously you tried to pass off a photo of Saharan Berber children (Kunta) as representing Tuaregs, while evading the fact that Mali and Timbuktu was established by Mande-speakers anyways.. Tuaregs were subject to the Mande.
quote: * Mali Empire (1235 AD - 1645 AD) o founders...Mandinka o dominion over...Mandinka, Soninke, Susu, Berbers, Fulbe, Wolof, Songhai, Serer, Tuareg
- Turchin, Peter and Jonathan M. Adams and Thomas D. Hall: "East-West Orientation of Historical Empires and Modern States", page 222. Journal of World-Systems Research, Vol. XII, No. II, 2006
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: ^ Alive Box posted a picture of you in a blue base ball cap and that man looks nothing like you. Your attempt to lighten African history is BS and you know it.
Yes he does i think i know how i look like And that pic with me on a cap is 3 years old, that guy has the same type of forhead and chick bone as me, but my nose and mouth is more like the one in second pic.
I think the one in the second pic yes....but if you are trying to imply that you are not BLACK by comparing yourself to your "authentic Tuaregs" think again self hating negro. I saw your pic and believe me southern whites during jim crow would put the lynch rope around your neck as fast as any stereotypical west African!
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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The same as the so-called Berber president who have mainly Arab ancestry in Mauretania, the modern populations across the Sahel are NOT exactly the same as those from a thousand years ago and MANY have been exposed to HEAVY arabization and others have taken on various wives of different ancestries. Therefore, it is impossible to try and claim that all of these people are "pure" Berber or Tuareg or that there is any ONE Berber or Tuareg look. The Tuareg of today are not necessarily the same as the ancient Saharan Berber clans of 1,000 years ago, but that does not stop some people from talking foolishness. ALL of North Africa has experienced influence from various kindoms and peoples over the last 3,000 years, so it is impossible to claim that any group is UNTOUCHED. And those clans who had the most exposure to the Moorish and Mediterranean expansion of Islam are the MOST Arabized of all Africans, with those Africans to the South and West the least Arabized.
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Ironically, these west African women don't even give any weight to his argument. lol. What a douche.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Yonis is right that some of the Tuaregs in Mali and elsewhere are very light. But that does not make them more authentic than the BLACK Tuaregs as ANY FOOL knows that the ORIGINAL dwellers in the sarara as seen in rock paintings and their remains (black mummy from Libya) were BLACK AFRICANS. Therefore, the question of mixture among North African populations is a MOOT point. Not to mention the fact that the very light Northern African Berbers also interact with their southern Saharan brethren which only furthers the variations among groups who were at one time almost exclusively black African. Just as there should be no question that the original Maure and Moors of were ALSO primarily black African, as there is no question that the ancient Egyptians and Sudanese were blacks as well, but you see how even these populations have changed and are changing.
Just as lighter skinned Berbers in North Africa are Africans with significant European or Arab ancestry, so too are the Tuaregs, even those with lighter skin.
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quote:Sundiata wrote: You have given us your clan list, but no definitive references to back your assertion that THOSE people are any more "authentic" than say, the majority of Tuareg whom are diverse, but for the most part resemble other west Africans in Mali..
I'll tell you why they are more authentic
1) All Tuareg who live in the sahara and up to the Maghreb look similar to them.
2) The Tuaregs speak Tamasheq of berber language family, and most berbers live in the sahara or above the sahara.
3) And lastly, It's only in the contact zone between Tuaregs and west african derived Malians, Burkina faso, Niger, and Mauritania that those type of Tuaregs you posted exists. While the types i posted exist (apart from the sahel) in the sahara and the whole way up to the berbers of Maghreb, who they also share genetics, culture and language with.
Which would therefore in conclusion make them more authentic than those you posted.
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quote:Doug M wrote: Yonis is right that some of the Tuaregs in Mali and elsewhere are very light. But that does not make them more authentic than the BLACK Tuaregs as ANY FOOL knows that the ORIGINAL dwellers in the sarara as seen in rock paintings and their remains (black mummy from Libya) were BLACK AFRICANS.
"Black", "black", "black", "white, "white" "white". Unlike you i never talk about or put any weight on skin colour and the different shades of it in my assesment. Very superficial logic.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Sundiata wrote: You have given us your clan list, but no definitive references to back your assertion that THOSE people are any more "authentic" than say, the majority of Tuareg whom are diverse, but for the most part resemble other west Africans in Mali..
I'll tell you why they are more authentic
1) All Tuareg who live in the sahara and up to the Maghreb look similar to them.
2) The Tuaregs speak Tamasheq of berber language family, and most berbers live in the sahara or above the sahara.
3) And lastly, It's only in the contact zone between Tuaregs and west african derived Malians, Burkina faso, Niger, and Mauritania that those type of Tuaregs you posted exists. While the types i posted exist (apart from the sahel) in the sahara and the whole way up to the berbers of Maghreb, who they also share genetics, culture and language with.
Which would therefore in conclusion make them more authentic than those you posted.
Talk about distorted logic.
Tuareg Berbers have been found to plot closest genetically to most Beja, and speak a language that is indigenous to Black Africans who don't look like that.
Therefore, it is counterintuitive to suggest that original berber-speakers of the Sahara (where most west Africans originate anyways), specifically ancestors of the Kal Tamasheq had a phenotype dissimilar to their descendants in Mali, and more like Arab invaders from Mauritania. Most Tuareg in Mali are Black Africans now and was so in medieval Mali. This is true according to Abderrahman es-Sadi and the Tarikh es-Sudan... Though at the end of the day...
Tuaregs were subject to the Mande.
quote: * Mali Empire (1235 AD - 1645 AD) o founders...Mandinka o dominion over...Mandinka, Soninke, Susu, Berbers, Fulbe, Wolof, Songhai, Serer, Tuareg
- Turchin, Peter and Jonathan M. Adams and Thomas D. Hall: "East-West Orientation of Historical Empires and Modern States", page 222. Journal of World-Systems Research, Vol. XII, No. II, 2006
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Yonis moves the goal post once more with his distorted circular reasoning.
a) As a half-baked explanation for the lack of ingenuity and civilization spanning the history of the Somali region, he asserts that "nomads don't create civilization".
b) When beat to death over the fact that west African achievement far exceeds Somalia, he desperately seeks to attribute it to Tuareg (a NOMADIC people) influence while arguing that Tuaregs (a Black people) aren't black.
In other words, nomads can't create civilization in Somalia but they can influence others to do so in west Africa. lol.. This, opposing the widely held perception that the centers of learning and statehood in west Africa went through a completely indigenous process, thanx to the coalition of VARIOUS west African clans, but in the main, attributable to Mande dominance.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: "Black", "black", "black", "white, "white" "white". Unlike you i never talk about or put any weight on skin colour and the different shades of it in my assesment. Very superficial logic.
No you don't use those terms Yonis, your anti-black racism is more insidious and sneaky. You down play centuries of foreign invasions in NA, post pics of light skinned Berbers whom you designate "authentic Berbers" and proceed to ascribe west African achievements to them. Young man, take a good look in the mirror and ask why do you hate yourself so much…
quote:Sundiata wrote: You have given us your clan list, but no definitive references to back your assertion that THOSE people are any more "authentic" than say, the majority of Tuareg whom are diverse, but for the most part resemble other west Africans in Mali..
I'll tell you why they are more authentic
1) All Tuareg who live in the sahara and up to the Maghreb look similar to them.
2) The Tuaregs speak Tamasheq of berber language family, and most berbers live in the sahara or above the sahara.
3) And lastly, It's only in the contact zone between Tuaregs and west african derived Malians, Burkina faso, Niger, and Mauritania that those type of Tuaregs you posted exists. While the types i posted exist (apart from the sahel) in the sahara and the whole way up to the berbers of Maghreb, who they also share genetics, culture and language with.
Which would therefore in conclusion make them more authentic than those you posted.
There are dark skinned Tuaregs in Algeria, Libya, Niger, Morocco, Chad and Mali. You need to stop lying so much. And WHICH do you think are representative of the ORIGINAL populations of Africans in those areas? And if there is a contact zone to the South, then why isn't there a contact zone in the North, with the UNDENIABLE presence of non African ancestries?
On top of that, the inadan "caste" in Tuareg society is that which makes the arts and crafts of the Tuareg and they are almost ALL BLACK.
quote:b) When beat to death over the fact that west African achievement far exceeds Somalia, he desperately seeks to attribute it to Tuareg (a NOMADIC people) influence while arguing that Tuaregs (a Black people) aren't black.
^ Good observation lol. He's a confused guy.
-------------------- Dont be evil - Google Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Doug M wrote: Yonis is right that some of the Tuaregs in Mali and elsewhere are very light. But that does not make them more authentic than the BLACK Tuaregs as ANY FOOL knows that the ORIGINAL dwellers in the sarara as seen in rock paintings and their remains (black mummy from Libya) were BLACK AFRICANS.
"Black", "black", "black", "white, "white" "white". Unlike you i never talk about or put any weight on skin colour and the different shades of it in my assesment. Very superficial logic.
Stop being a hypocrite. Last I checked YOU were the one trying to base African identity on skin color.....
Posts: 8897 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Osiron wrote: This is stupid. Mali was built using indigenous technology by the indigenous Black people of West Africa.
And you are a Khazar jew who should focus on the khazars. I never understood why you Ashkenazi don't feel ashamed killing palestinian kids while at the same time praying to their ancient gods, WHY?.
Osiron when are you gonnaa leave palestine and go back to khazakistan or atleast Russia/poland? The closest thing you are to the hebrews of the temple period is probably your Falasha blood.
From a guy who loves to claim Jewish/Eurasian heritage? Don't you claim to be some form of Asian/Afican mix? Never heard of the story of Moses and his Ethiopian wife? How about Queen Sheba and King Solomon?
At least you can deal with the lack of archaelogical evidence supporting your claim that the nomadic Berbers somehow established the sedentary civilization of Mali. The facts shout out just the opposite. Berbers brought with them religion but not the technology that is clearly indigenous to that area; such as clearly exhibited for thousands of years by the Dogon.
Obviously once the Dogon people were coverted to Islam (a Hebrew derived religion adopted by our disilusioned cousins) they started to prefer people of Arabic/Berber heritage and that selection pressue results in lighter skin amongst the Tuareg people. We also have a pretty good understanding of where that light skin comes from amongst NA Berbers.
We don't know when mtdna U made its way into North Africa, but the fact that it is so dominant clearly indicates where the non-Tropically adapted genome of the West North African people is derived. The lack of R1B fills in the rest of the story. You know very well what that means. Low rate of European Y-Chromosomes but a high frequency of European mtDNA. We find the reverse of this amongst Palestinians. High rate or Eurasian Y-Chromosomes and negligible amount of East African derived Y-Chromosomes but at the same time a substantial amount of East African mtDNA. We know what caused this anomaly amongst the Palestinians - slave trade.
Berbers and there European dervied mtDNA is still a mystery. But these people are more like pirates than the bringer of civilization.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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Berber is a LANGUAGE and has been in the Sahel since PRIOR to the advent of Islam.
The original Berber languages, just as the original populations of the Sahel ALL originated in East Africa.
The civilization of the Western Sahel and Southern Mauretania was created by BLACK AFRICAN NON BERBER speakers, as exemplified by Dar Tichitt.
The Berbers are descendants of the ORIGINAL black Africans of the Sahara and North Africa who became nomadic and have been there for many thousands of years.
The reason North Africa has been so tremendously impacted by foreign blood is because of its environment, which ensures that there is a LOWER population density than in Europe and elsewhere. This is why foreigners have had less of an impact elsewhere in Africa, because of the HIGH population density.
Posts: 8897 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: From a guy who loves to claim Jewish/Eurasian heritage? Don't you claim to be some form of Asian/Afican mix?
Quote me where i've ever claimed Jewish/eurasian heritage or anything similar to that? You khazar/slavic hybrid. Even if i did i would have more legitimacy than your central asian derived ass.
quote:Never heard of the story of Moses and his Ethiopian wife? How about Queen Sheba and King Solomon?
Relevancy to Ashkenazi?
quote:At least you can deal with the lack of archaelogical evidence supporting your claim that the nomadic Berbers somehow established the sedentary civilization of Mali. The facts shout out just the opposite. Berbers brought with them religion but not the technology that is clearly indigenous to that area; such as clearly exhibited for thousands of years by the Dogon.
Tuaregs were in these places sundiata talks about, all these places are untill today occupied by Tuaregs, i was actully surprised to hear that "Ghana" was located in Mauritania.
quote:Obviously once the Dogon people were coverted to Islam (a Hebrew derived religion adopted by our disilusioned cousins) they started to prefer people of Arabic/Berber heritage and that selection pressue results in lighter skin amongst the Tuareg people.
What the hell are you talking about? Tuaregs ARE berbers not Dogon. And islam is indeed a Hebrew derived religion yes but the descendants of Hebrews from the temple period are almost all muslims today, your ancestors were gentiles who adopted the palestinian religion during the middle ages when islam was already established. In other words muslims had contact with this hebrew religion centuries/millenia before your Ashkenazi ancestors knew its existance. Your original language is of central asia family (related to mongolian and your partly slavic)
quote:We also have a pretty good understanding of where that light skin comes from amongst NA Berbers. We don't know when mtdna U made its way into North Africa, but the fact that it is so dominant clearly indicates where the non-Tropically adapted genome of the West North African people is derived. The lack of R1B fills in the rest of the story. You know very well what that means. Low rate of European Y-Chromosomes but a high frequency of European mtDNA. We find the reverse of this amongst Palestinians. High rate or Eurasian Y-Chromosomes and negligible amount of East African derived Y-Chromosomes but at the same time a substantial amount of East African mtDNA. We know what caused this anomaly amongst the Palestinians - slave trade.
East african is big, east african MtDNA among palestinians? Which part of east africa, Uganda or Djibouti?? I still don't see the relevancy of U among berbers (a very old haplogroup)and the discussion about a period during the middle ages.
quote:Berbers and there European dervied mtDNA is still a mystery. But these people are more like pirates than the bringer of civilization.
Comming from an Ashkenazi Jew lol, what is this comedy week? When people like Manetho spoke about the jews he was referring to the palestinians who were neither christian or Muslim during that time of ptolemy Egypt, the palestinins followed the hebrew religion (you know the religion you claim yours today). In other words discussions of the hebrews of antiquity was not in reference to you Ashkenzi type who'se ancestors were considered barbarians like the Greeks thought of almost all people outside the meditteranian region. While berbers that you call mere pirates were an integral part of this region. Also more than one third of the roman emperors were berbers, if you didnt know. You should also know that it was the berbers who converted the spanish jews (sephardic) who in turn via the Byzantians the sephardics converted the khazars during Umayyad chaliphate expansion in central asia. In other words without the berbers, you my deceptive Ashkenazi would have been a muslim or a catholic christin today.Lol
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Sundiata wrote: he desperately seeks to attribute it to Tuareg (a NOMADIC people) influence while arguing that Tuaregs (a Black people) aren't black.
I inserted Tuaregs into the equation when you told me that "Ghana" was in Mauritania which i didn't know i always thought modern Ghana was the "Ghana" you guys always talk about. And no the real Tuaregs are not "Black" (whatever that means)
quote:Sundiata wrote: When beat to death over the fact that west African achievement far exceeds Somalia,
You are comparing a small country in the horn which is semi-desert, dry and arid with only 9 million people ( and less than a million nomads hundred years go) to a whole reigion in africa, West Africa with some 300+ million people. You know how pathetic that sounds? It actually says more about westafrica than anything.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote: And no the real Tuaregs are not "Black" (whatever that means)
You claim not know what black means yet you know that "real" Tuaregs aren't black? wow, self hatred does lead to twisted logic. lol
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: I inserted Tuaregs into the equation when you told me that "Ghana" was in Mauritania which i didn't know i always thought modern Ghana was the "Ghana" you guys always talk about.
Shows how grossly ignorant you initially were, yet still have the audacity to bicker with your teacher. Ghana actually overlapped a FEW modern states. This goes to demonstrate that your "insertion of Tuaregs" in this conversation stems not from a careful demographic analysis of Southern Mauritania in the middle ages, but a biased wish to place NOMADS at a capital established by the Soninke who'd lived a sedentary life there since 1,000 B.C., at least. Tichit-Walata was an earlier settlement. Doesn't matter to you that "Ghana" wasn't even the name of the kingdom, but rather a Soninke word that means "king" which was picked up on by foreigners, while they called their own empire, Wagadou. No mention of Tuareg in the region and historically, the Ghanians actually succeeded in pushing the Sanhaja further north to establish their kingdom.
quote:Despite its name, the old empire of Ghana is not geographically, ethnically or in any way related to modern Ghana. Ancient Ghana lies 400 miles north-west of modern Ghana, it encompasses what is now modern Northern Senegal and Southern Mauritania. The origins of Ghana are not certain, but at the start of the first millennium AD a number of clans of the Soninke people, a Mande speaking people living in the region bordering the Sahara, came together under the leadership of Dinga Cisse.
There are different narration's of who he was but history establishes the fact that he was a stranger from afar. It has been said that it is likely that the Soninke was formed in response to the attacks from nomadic raiders suffering from drought and seeking new territory. Further west was the state of Takrur in the Senegal valley. It was linked to the north via a coastal route leading to Morocco via Sjilmasa.
quote:And no the real Tuaregs are not "Black" (whatever that means)
Of course they are, which is why they were referred to as such by the Arabs in Timbuktu and speak a language who in its most underived form, is spoken by other black African populations in Africa.
quote:Sundiata wrote: When beat to death over the fact that west African achievement far exceeds Somalia,
quote:Yonis wrote:
You are comparing a small country in the horn which is semi-desert, dry and arid with only 9 million people ( and less than a million nomads hundred years go) to a whole reigion in africa, West Africa with some 300+ million people.
Actually, it all began at jenne-jeno and progressed onward, which IS a desert at only 82 acres. Their town only carried 29,000 people yet they were somehow able to transmit civilization through the Sahel, as they were among the first in the region to domesticate rice, master terracotta art, possess their own independent Iron technology, establish the Sudano-Sahelian style of mud-brick architecture seen in Timbuktu and Djenne, or even establish an urban settlement (city) and organized way of life. Ghana started as a confederation of Soninke centered at Awkar, and Mali was but one kingdom in Niani. All of these (besides Niani) were in arid desert regions with minimal population density.
quote:You know how pathetic that sounds?
What's 'pathetic' is your cattle herding ancestors who were incapable of EVER establishing an independent state devoid of Arab and Italian intervention.
quote:It actually says more about westafrica than anything.
It sure does. It basically says that Somalia is definitely not your quintessential African civilization, but an example of what patterns NOT to repeat to attain it (which many parts of west Africa have learned). Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:The reason North Africa has been so tremendously impacted by foreign blood is because of its environment, which ensures that there is a LOWER population density than in Europe and elsewhere. This is why foreigners have had less of an impact elsewhere in Africa, because of the HIGH population density.
And Southern Africa--which still has its foreigner problem? Was it population density or otherwise?
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Yonis is so out of touch that he can't fathom the fact that his brain dead theories of diffusionism in west Africa have been exposed for the dimwitted wishful thinking that it is, long ago.
The problem of the origins of Ghana and its Kings:
quote:We have seen that very little is said about this by the Arab authors. Delafosse, followed by others, has put forward a theory of the Jewish and Syrian origin of Ghana,4 but we are not obliged to agree with this view. The suggestion that the Ghana princes were not negroes, but were probably Sanhadja Berbers, was put forward in the Tarikh el Fettach in the sixteenth century. But this opinion is qualified by so many doubts (' People do not agree as to the tribe to which these princes belonged . . . they might have been Sanhadja . . . God knows it better than anyone . . . it is not possible nowadays for historians without fear of contradiction to agree on this subject. . . ') that we cannot regard the text as a reliable basis for believing the first Ghana kings to have been of white race. It has to be remembered also that Mahmoud Kdti was of Soninke race, and may well, for this reason, have tried to attribute to his race's dynasty a white origin. Among the earlier references, Yakoubi,s in A.D. 872, places the Ghana people among the negroes and Masoudi (c. A.D. 944) does the same. Ibn Hawqal (c. 977), who had crossed the Sahara to Aoudaghost and therefore knew what he was talking about, also places Ghana in the land of the negroes,6 and so does A1 Birouni (c. 1036). El Bekri, speaking of the people of Ghana, says : '. . . the religion of these negroes is paganism.'7 Idrisi (I I 14) states that Ghana, now Muslim in religion, is the greatest town of the land of the negroes, but relates, as we have seen, that the kings are said to be descended from Salih ben Abdallah, a descendant of the Prophet (see p. 203 above). Since, a century before, El Bekri had recorded that the kings were negroes, we must take it as probable that after the Berber Almoravids took Ghana in 1077, the pagan dynasty was replaced by a Muslim one, which perhaps had, as Idrisi claims, Cherifian and therefore white blood in its veins.8 This tradition of a Cherifian, probably white, dynasty could explain why, several centuries later, the Tarikhs speak of non-negro kings of Ghana. At present, therefore, nothing certain is known of the origin of Ghana-a state first mentioned only at the end of the eighth century-or of its founding dynasty, but that it was regarded by the earliest authors as a black kingdom, of Soninke or Sarakole race.'
- R. A. Mauny. "The Question of Ghana", Africa: Journal of the International African Institute, Vol. 24, No. 3 (Jul., 1954), pp. 200-213
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Yonis just so you know, I don't see Somalis as inferior to other Africans, I just have a problem with your blind faith in Eurocentric historiography as it concerns NA. You don't have to twist African history to appreciate Somalia's unique place in it.
quote:We have seen that very little is said about this by the Arab authors. Delafosse, followed by others, has put forward a theory of the Jewish and Syrian origin of Ghana,4 but we are not obliged to agree with this view. The suggestion that the Ghana princes were not negroes, but were probably Sanhadja Berbers, was put forward in the Tarikh el Fettach in the sixteenth century. But this opinion is qualified by so many doubts (' People do not agree as to the tribe to which these princes belonged . . . they might have been Sanhadja . . . God knows it better than anyone . . . it is not possible nowadays for historians without fear of contradiction to agree on this subject. . . ') that we cannot regard the text as a reliable basis for believing the first Ghana kings to have been of white race. It has to be remembered also that Mahmoud Kdti was of Soninke race, and may well, for this reason, have tried to attribute to his race's dynasty a white origin. Among the earlier references, Yakoubi,s in A.D. 872, places the Ghana people among the negroes and Masoudi (c. A.D. 944) does the same. Ibn Hawqal (c. 977), who had crossed the Sahara to Aoudaghost and therefore knew what he was talking about, also places Ghana in the land of the negroes,6 and so does A1 Birouni (c. 1036). El Bekri, speaking of the people of Ghana, says : '. . . the religion of these negroes is paganism.'7 Idrisi (I I 14) states that Ghana, now Muslim in religion, is the greatest town of the land of the negroes, but relates, as we have seen, that the kings are said to be descended from Salih ben Abdallah, a descendant of the Prophet (see p. 203 above). Since, a century before, El Bekri had recorded that the kings were negroes, we must take it as probable that after the Berber Almoravids took Ghana in 1077, the pagan dynasty was replaced by a Muslim one, which perhaps had, as Idrisi claims, Cherifian and therefore white blood in its veins.8 This tradition of a Cherifian, probably white, dynasty could explain why, several centuries later, the Tarikhs speak of non-negro kings of Ghana. At present, therefore, nothing certain is known of the origin of Ghana-a state first mentioned only at the end of the eighth century-or of its founding dynasty, but that it was regarded by the earliest authors as a black kingdom, of Soninke or Sarakole race.' ________________________________________ - R. A. Mauny. "The Question of Ghana", Africa: Journal of the International African Institute, Vol. 24, No. 3 (Jul., 1954), pp. 200-213.
Yes this is indicative of general attempt to rob our history. One is also reminded of the theories concerning Jewish origins of Nok culture of Nigeria. lol
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:The reason North Africa has been so tremendously impacted by foreign blood is because of its environment, which ensures that there is a LOWER population density than in Europe and elsewhere. This is why foreigners have had less of an impact elsewhere in Africa, because of the HIGH population density.
And Southern Africa--which still has its foreigner problem? Was it population density or otherwise?
The point is that the population of South Africa is still primarily black. Whites or very light skinned Africans are not the majority.
Posts: 8897 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
DougM you're about the dumbest transvestite on this planet. Typical of you since you are a beatdown AA whose identity comes from what whites tell you it is. Which is why your whiny ass is exposing what a hypocrite you are with your twisted definition of who's black and who ain't.
What is your definition of black?
If an African is brown, red, orange, beige, or yellow are they black? are they African?
What if they have a brother or sister that is what you consider black? Would one be "black" and the other one "not"?
Does that make sense to your transvestite self?
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: From a guy who loves to claim Jewish/Eurasian heritage? Don't you claim to be some form of Asian/Afican mix?
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Quote me where i've ever claimed Jewish/eurasian heritage or anything similar to that? You khazar/slavic hybrid. Even if i did i would have more legitimacy than your central asian derived ass.
Perhaps you don't understand English grammar. This "?" is called a question mark. It means I am asking you a question. I have no idea who you are and even if you told me I would not believe you. However, many East Africans like to claim that they are non-African or mixed. I have heard that so many times from Somalians and Ethiopians and many of them disdain Jews.
quote:Never heard of the story of Moses and his Ethiopian wife? How about Queen Sheba and King Solomon?
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Relevancy to Ashkenazi?
None at all. This is the traditional view point of the Hebrew people. Also well documented in literature of the Egyptians as well. Semitic speaking people and Nubians made an aliance against the Egyptian people. This is how the Hysoks ruled the Egyptians. These types of alliances also resulted in intermarriages between the groups. This is echoed in the legends of the time. This is a story of East Africa such as Ethiopians. East Africans have a significant amount of Jewish ancestry. It is interesting that now that this point has been made you try to claim that the originial Jews were the same as modern day Palestinians.
Let me clear this up from the point of view of Jewish oral traditions.
Palestinians were Black people originally. Natuarally due to trade they became a mixed people. Built Jericho and established some of the first great cities. The Hebrews of Chaldean extraction did intermarry with these people but at the same time maintained a Chaldean heritage as well. We also massacared many of the men and took the women. At some point in history the Hebrew people disowned, oppressed and partitioned off the people of mixed Hebrew and Canaanite heritage that was a result of this turbulent conquest (story of the Samaritans) Genetics and Anthropology has proven this story to be quite factual.
So Palestinians are the remnant of Hebrew conquest of Canaan. Maternally they have African heritage but very little Paternal hertiage because the men were massacared. Palestinians are essentially Jewish, Black and European people mixed together.
quote:At least you can deal with the lack of archaelogical evidence supporting your claim that the nomadic Berbers somehow established the sedentary civilization of Mali. The facts shout out just the opposite. Berbers brought with them religion but not the technology that is clearly indigenous to that area; such as clearly exhibited for thousands of years by the Dogon.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
Tuaregs were in these places sundiata talks about, all these places are untill today occupied by Tuaregs, i was actully surprised to hear that "Ghana" was located in Mauritania.
The civilization of Ghana predates Islam. It was established not by Tuaregs who actually are the invaders that brought down this civilization, but rather by the Sonnike speakers that united city states of Ghana into an empire. A very Black empire that existed before the great holocaust against the Black peoples of West Africa by the Jihadest slave traders who used religion as an excuse to commite one of the worse atrocities in history. And you claim you are related to these Berbers? And you want to say what about how Jews are treating Palestinians. 8 million Africans died on the trans-Saharan slave routes established by the Berbers. Pirates that destroyed the great Kingdom of Ghana.
quote:Obviously once the Dogon people were coverted to Islam (a Hebrew derived religion adopted by our disilusioned cousins) they started to prefer people of Arabic/Berber heritage and that selection pressue results in lighter skin amongst the Tuareg people.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
What the hell are you talking about? Tuaregs ARE berbers not Dogon.
Tuaregs are Nomadic people of the Sahara. Is calling them Berbers supposed to denote something of importance? Is calling them berbers te same as calling them Caucasoid or something else unscientific? First, they would have mixed with the indigenous people of West Africa in Mali. These people of Mali include the Dogons, Sonnike, Mande, Fulani. Dogons fled the Jihadist slave trading pirates called the Tuaregs but some converted and became Tuaregs themselves.
Your confusion appears to be with the idea that Berbers are a racial group rather than an ethnicity. Most Berbers are essentially mulattos of unknown heritage. Mixed people from probably 10K BP.
The Dogons are one of the many indigenous farmers of Mali. Mali's civilizations are attributable to the sedentary farmers of Mali which are the Dogon, Sonnike and Mande. If you go to mali and look at the architecture you will see the Dogon influence.
Your pirates, the nomadic Tuaregs, destroyed this civilization rather than help build it. This is easy, find me Tuareg cities North of Mali that has the same technology.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
And islam is indeed a Hebrew derived religion yes but the descendants of Hebrews from the temple period are almost all muslims today, your ancestors were gentiles who adopted the palestinian religion during the middle ages when islam was already established. In other words muslims had contact with this hebrew religion centuries/millenia before your Ashkenazi ancestors knew its existance.
Sounds like you been listening to these Afrocentrics a bit too much.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Your original language is of central asia family (related to mongolian and your partly slavic)
Beta Jewish and Ashkenazi Jew - thank you.
Having African and European features, I can walk right into Palestine and fit right in. Not all Israeles are White.
quote:We also have a pretty good understanding of where that light skin comes from amongst NA Berbers. We don't know when mtdna U made its way into North Africa, but the fact that it is so dominant clearly indicates where the non-Tropically adapted genome of the West North African people is derived. The lack of R1B fills in the rest of the story. You know very well what that means. Low rate of European Y-Chromosomes but a high frequency of European mtDNA. We find the reverse of this amongst Palestinians. High rate or Eurasian Y-Chromosomes and negligible amount of East African derived Y-Chromosomes but at the same time a substantial amount of East African mtDNA. We know what caused this anomaly amongst the Palestinians - slave trade.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
East african is big, east african MtDNA among palestinians? Which part of east africa, Uganda or Djibouti??
Quite a few Abyssinians were enslaved.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
I still don't see the relevancy of U among berbers (a very old haplogroup)and the discussion about a period during the middle ages.
No, U haplogroup is only 9000 years old amongst the Berbers. I don't like to use the term Caucasian but most people that have the U haplgroup descend from people that crossed the Caucasus into Europe. What Berbers are lacking is a significant amount of Caucasian derived male Chromosomes. Berbers are a mixed people just like Jews - more a cultural grouping of people rather than a racial grouping.
J1, yes, but then thats Hebrew isn't it? Jews that converted to Islam and other Eurasians.
quote:Berbers and there European dervied mtDNA is still a mystery. But these people are more like pirates than the bringer of civilization.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
Comming from an Ashkenazi Jew lol, what is this comedy week? When people like Manetho spoke about the jews he was referring to the palestinians who were neither christian or Muslim during that time of ptolemy Egypt, the palestinins followed the hebrew religion (you know the religion you claim yours today). In other words discussions of the hebrews of antiquity was not in reference to you Ashkenzi type who'se ancestors were considered barbarians like the Greeks thought of almost all people outside the meditteranian region. While berbers that you call mere pirates were an integral part of this region. Also more than one third of the roman emperors were berbers, if you didnt know. You should also know that it was the berbers who converted the spanish jews (sephardic) who in turn via the Byzantians the sephardics converted the khazars during Umayyad chaliphate expansion in central asia. In other words without the berbers, you my deceptive Ashkenazi would have been a muslim or a catholic christin today.Lol
Ethiopian Jews have likely been practicing Judaism since the time of the Sabean migration. However, the most authentic Jewish people of the Levant are probably the Yemeni Jews that have been culturally isolated since the time of King Solomon. What this has to do with Tuaregs I don't know.
The average Tuareg is Black just like the average Jewish Ethiopian. The average berber is a mulatto like most North Africans. There are groups of Berbers that are genetically Mulatto but its not perceptible.
There are of course Americans who are similar to these Berbers. Jessical Beals probably has the same genetics as an average Berber having African paternal genes and European maternal ones:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: DougM you're about the dumbest transvestite on this planet. Typical of you since you are a beatdown AA whose identity comes from what whites tell you it is. Which is why your whiny ass is exposing what a hypocrite you are with your twisted definition of who's black and who ain't.
What is your definition of black?
If an African is brown, red, orange, beige, or yellow are they black? are they African?
What if they have a brother or sister that is what you consider black? Would one be "black" and the other one "not"?
Does that make sense to your transvestite self?
Stop squirming troll.
The fundamental PROBLEM here is YOU and the fact that YOU cannot accept that BLACK AFRICANS are the PRIMARY occupants of the African continent and have ALWAYS BEEN.
YOU know what black means, because THAT is why you DISAGREE with it. That is why you TROLL so much.
The FACTS are what they are. Blacks are the PREDOMINANT population in Africa and HAVE ALWAYS BEEN and even more so in the past.
If YOU don't like this, then the person with a RACIST MENTALITY is YOURSELF, because YOU don't like the facts. So the ONLY one promoting a BEAT DOWN MENTALITY is you because YOU are the one trying to DENY THE OBVIOUS by pretending that blacks ARE NOT the PRIMARY populations of Africa, both now and in the past.
Posts: 8897 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: From a guy who loves to claim Jewish/Eurasian heritage? Don't you claim to be some form of Asian/Afican mix?
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Quote me where i've ever claimed Jewish/eurasian heritage or anything similar to that? You khazar/slavic hybrid. Even if i did i would have more legitimacy than your central asian derived ass.
Perhaps you don't understand English grammar. This "?" is called a question mark. It means I am asking you a question. I have no idea who you are and even if you told me I would not believe you. However, many East Africans like to claim that they are non-African or mixed. I have heard that so many times from Somalians and Ethiopians and many of them disdain Jews.
quote:Never heard of the story of Moses and his Ethiopian wife? How about Queen Sheba and King Solomon?
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Relevancy to Ashkenazi?
None at all. This is the traditional view point of the Hebrew people. Also well documented in literature of the Egyptians as well. Semitic speaking people and Nubians made an aliance against the Egyptian people. This is how the Hysoks ruled the Egyptians. These types of alliances also resulted in intermarriages between the groups. This is echoed in the legends of the time. This is a story of East Africa such as Ethiopians. East Africans have a significant amount of Jewish ancestry. It is interesting that now that this point has been made you try to claim that the originial Jews were the same as modern day Palestinians.
Let me clear this up from the point of view of Jewish oral traditions.
Palestinians were Black people originally. Natuarally due to trade they became a mixed people. Built Jericho and established some of the first great cities. The Hebrews of Chaldean extraction did intermarry with these people but at the same time maintained a Chaldean heritage as well. We also massacared many of the men and took the women. At some point in history the Hebrew people disowned, oppressed and partitioned off the people of mixed Hebrew and Canaanite heritage that was a result of this turbulent conquest (story of the Samaritans) Genetics and Anthropology has proven this story to be quite factual.
So Palestinians are the remnant of Hebrew conquest of Canaan. Maternally they have African heritage but very little Paternal hertiage because the men were massacared. Palestinians are essentially Jewish, Black and European people mixed together.
quote:At least you can deal with the lack of archaelogical evidence supporting your claim that the nomadic Berbers somehow established the sedentary civilization of Mali. The facts shout out just the opposite. Berbers brought with them religion but not the technology that is clearly indigenous to that area; such as clearly exhibited for thousands of years by the Dogon.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
Tuaregs were in these places sundiata talks about, all these places are untill today occupied by Tuaregs, i was actully surprised to hear that "Ghana" was located in Mauritania.
The civilization of Ghana predates Islam. It was established not by Tuaregs who actually are the invaders that brought down this civilization, but rather by the Sonnike speakers that united city states of Ghana into an empire. A very Black empire that existed before the great holocaust against the Black peoples of West Africa by the Jihadest slave traders who used religion as an excuse to commite one of the worse atrocities in history. And you claim you are related to these Berbers? And you want to say what about how Jews are treating Palestinians. 8 million Africans died on the trans-Saharan slave routes established by the Berbers. Pirates that destroyed the great Kingdom of Ghana.
quote:Obviously once the Dogon people were coverted to Islam (a Hebrew derived religion adopted by our disilusioned cousins) they started to prefer people of Arabic/Berber heritage and that selection pressue results in lighter skin amongst the Tuareg people.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
What the hell are you talking about? Tuaregs ARE berbers not Dogon.
Tuaregs are Nomadic people of the Sahara. Is calling them Berbers supposed to denote something of importance? Is calling them berbers te same as calling them Caucasoid or something else unscientific? First, they would have mixed with the indigenous people of West Africa in Mali. These people of Mali include the Dogons, Sonnike, Mande, Fulani. Dogons fled the Jihadist slave trading pirates called the Tuaregs but some converted and became Tuaregs themselves.
Your confusion appears to be with the idea that Berbers are a racial group rather than an ethnicity. Most Berbers are essentially mulattos of unknown heritage. Mixed people from probably 10K BP.
The Dogons are one of the many indigenous farmers of Mali. Mali's civilizations are attributable to the sedentary farmers of Mali which are the Dogon, Sonnike and Mande. If you go to mali and look at the architecture you will see the Dogon influence.
Your pirates, the nomadic Tuaregs, destroyed this civilization rather than help build it. This is easy, find me Tuareg cities North of Mali that has the same technology.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
And islam is indeed a Hebrew derived religion yes but the descendants of Hebrews from the temple period are almost all muslims today, your ancestors were gentiles who adopted the palestinian religion during the middle ages when islam was already established. In other words muslims had contact with this hebrew religion centuries/millenia before your Ashkenazi ancestors knew its existance.
Sounds like you been listening to these Afrocentrics a bit too much.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Your original language is of central asia family (related to mongolian and your partly slavic)
Beta Jewish and Ashkenazi Jew - thank you.
Having African and European features, I can walk right into Palestine and fit right in. Not all Israeles are White.
quote:We also have a pretty good understanding of where that light skin comes from amongst NA Berbers. We don't know when mtdna U made its way into North Africa, but the fact that it is so dominant clearly indicates where the non-Tropically adapted genome of the West North African people is derived. The lack of R1B fills in the rest of the story. You know very well what that means. Low rate of European Y-Chromosomes but a high frequency of European mtDNA. We find the reverse of this amongst Palestinians. High rate or Eurasian Y-Chromosomes and negligible amount of East African derived Y-Chromosomes but at the same time a substantial amount of East African mtDNA. We know what caused this anomaly amongst the Palestinians - slave trade.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
East african is big, east african MtDNA among palestinians? Which part of east africa, Uganda or Djibouti??
Quite a few Abyssinians were enslaved.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
I still don't see the relevancy of U among berbers (a very old haplogroup)and the discussion about a period during the middle ages.
No, U haplogroup is only 9000 years old amongst the Berbers. I don't like to use the term Caucasian but most people that have the U haplgroup descend from people that crossed the Caucasus into Europe. What Berbers are lacking is a significant amount of Caucasian derived male Chromosomes. Berbers are a mixed people just like Jews - more a cultural grouping of people rather than a racial grouping.
J1, yes, but then thats Hebrew isn't it? Jews that converted to Islam and other Eurasians.
quote:Berbers and there European dervied mtDNA is still a mystery. But these people are more like pirates than the bringer of civilization.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
Comming from an Ashkenazi Jew lol, what is this comedy week? When people like Manetho spoke about the jews he was referring to the palestinians who were neither christian or Muslim during that time of ptolemy Egypt, the palestinins followed the hebrew religion (you know the religion you claim yours today). In other words discussions of the hebrews of antiquity was not in reference to you Ashkenzi type who'se ancestors were considered barbarians like the Greeks thought of almost all people outside the meditteranian region. While berbers that you call mere pirates were an integral part of this region. Also more than one third of the roman emperors were berbers, if you didnt know. You should also know that it was the berbers who converted the spanish jews (sephardic) who in turn via the Byzantians the sephardics converted the khazars during Umayyad chaliphate expansion in central asia. In other words without the berbers, you my deceptive Ashkenazi would have been a muslim or a catholic christin today.Lol
Ethiopian Jews have likely been practicing Judaism since the time of the Sabean migration. However, the most authentic Jewish people of the Levant are probably the Yemeni Jews that have been culturally isolated since the time of King Solomon. What this has to do with Tuaregs I don't know.
The average Tuareg is Black just like the average Jewish Ethiopian. The average berber is a mulatto like most North Africans. There are groups of Berbers that are genetically Mulatto but its not perceptible.
There are of course Americans who are similar to these Berbers. Jessical Beals probably has the same genetics as an average Berber having African paternal genes and European maternal ones:
Berber is a LANGUAGE not a skin color, not a gene, not a ancestry.
Period.
Jessica Beals is irrelevant to this, as her genetics are NOT those of people who speak Berber languages. The only way they could be is if she has ancestors from Northern Africa and the Sahara.
Stop trying to tie a SKIN COLOR to a language and culture.
Light skin (or dark skin) is not what defines Berber. Language and culture is what defines Berber.
Posts: 8897 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:akoben wrote: Yonis just so you know, I don't see Somalis as inferior to other Africans,
Inferior? Don't project your mentality on me, it won't work, lol. I couldn't care less of what you see as inferior or not, it's the reaction that counts not the actions of others. I'm not the one whose been mentaly and physically molested and abused for centuries, as being called half-human and other epiteth, even accepting "black" and "negro" as identity. Hope i'm not messing up your therapy, just don't project. Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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