posted
Hi, I'm new to this forum and I just wanted to start this thread on an issue that has really bothered me for quite some time.I am an eighteen year old Eritrean girl and while growing up my grandmother would often tell me stories about how the people who form the modern day nations of Eritrea , Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Somalia are ancestral to Southwest Asia in what today forms Yemen and western Oman. Even today it is still possible to cross the Great Rift Valley on foot at low tide and enter the southern Arabian Peninsula. Additionally the clan system of Yemenis is very similar to that practiced in Eritrea. I have always considered myself as being "black" but I have come to realize that a lot of people don't. I've lived in London since I was about five years old, and here in the UK they do distinguish between Horn Africans and other "Sub-Saharan" Africans; for example on my university application form they had separate fields under ethnicity: one read "Black-African" and the other Somali/Ethiopian. Additionally some of my African friends from other parts of the continent (Uganda & Benin) don't consider me to be "black" either . Many Eriteans here in the UK prefer not to be called "black" but simply Eritrean. The same is true for other Horn Africans. In Eritrea the label black is viewed disparagingly and many are even racist towards other Africans. Some people like to argue that Africa is a very diverse continent and as such the craniofacial features found in this region of the continent is simply within the range of diversity expected to be found within the continent. I have no qualms with this, however the problem is that while this may be true the features of Somalis and Ethiopians tend to be the most distinct. While in other "Sub-Saharan" ethnicities you see a gradation from one group to the next, we tend to stick out like a sore thumb. One of my uncles look very much like an Arab; In fact Arabs will often approach him and immediately start speaking arabic. I define a "black" person as being anyone with dark skin who is indigenous (when I say indigenous I don't mean it from an evolutionary standpoint as all humans are indigenous to Africa). As such I do not consider Dravidians and Pacific Islanders as being "black." My question is that if in fact it is true that Horn Africans are not indigenous to the African Continent, would that not disqualify us from being truly "black?"
Posts: 1 | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Habesha girl wrote: My grandmother would often tell me stories about how the people who form the modern day nations of Eritrea , Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Somalia are ancestral to Southwest Asia in what today forms Yemen and western Oman.
Your grandmother is a wise woman, she's entirely correct. Notice that all civilizations in middle-east(minus the Mesopotamian who the dravidians had an input on) were all located on the regions crossing Northeast africans. For instance In northern Middle-east we had the Caananites who got input from northern Northeast Africans and in southern middle-east whe had the south arabians who got input from southern Northeast Africans. All heavily mixed with Northeast africans. In between we have the Arabs, completly useless.
In conclusion, Northeast African blood makes the difference between advanced civilization and no-civilization among farmers.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Habeshe gurl wrote: And here in the UK they do distinguish between Horn Africans and other "Sub-Saharan" Africans; for example on my university application form they had separate fields under ethnicity: one read "Black-African" and the other Somali/Ethiopian.
Really, they do that?
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posted
"for example on my university application form they had separate fields under ethnicity: one read "Black-African" and the other Somali/Ethiopian."
i guess decades of scholarship from diop, ben, van sertima et al. counted for nothing. just goes to show whites will never change.Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
There is a lesson to be learned here. Rather than flame them, we might all do well to ponder their condition and reaccess our own outlook.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
if you mean rather than blame them we might all do well to ponder their condition and reaccess our own outlook. then i agree 100%
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
^ i notice she doesnt like to elaborate. only gives one or two liners then shows her panties when the debate doesnt go her way.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Habesha_Gurl and Yonis2 - I have but one thing to say: If while walking through the Irish section of Boston, you suddenly hear the words "Niggers - Get the Niggers" They mean YOU: RUN!!
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Something about the article leads me to question its authenticity. A troller? And that comment about university application forms sounds bogus.
I have my suspicions because in Europe individuals of "black-white" parentage are routinely called "black"--rightly or wrongly. Take the case of that Formula 1 driver, Lewis Hamilton. For all intents and purposes he is lumped in with the blacks.
There are even racist crime blotters that routinely post the photos and crimes of black transgressors: Horners are frequent postees there.
And even very light persons with some Africanoid traits are called black. Case in point: Rio Ferdinand of Manchester United.
As far as I know the average "Horner" in Europe is routinely seen as "black"--given their "within the African range" for the 2 key Africanoid traits: hair and complexion.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:One of my uncles look very much like an Arab
Arabs have subtantial horn of africa genes, that's why you can have some confusion, especially among eritreans since some mixed more with Yemeni than other East Africans...like Tigre, Tigrinya and other semitic speaking eritreans...even some Beja...
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
This thread just seems like another person desperate to be something they are not. Non-Black. Its a shame someone would post stuff like this about Britain when I hear that not only are Africans Black, but they also group Indians under the Black label.
I am always confused by people who post stuff like this saying how people tell them they are not really Black. Does it make them feel any better about themselves would this thinking stop the KKK from attacking them. Really people need to embrace who they are and stop selfhating.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Sleuthing the article I notice that the author spells "realize" according to American English. In the U.K. that word is spelled "realise".
And crossing the Rift Valley at low tide--how does the author--for all practical purposes "British"--know this?
Also why would an 18 year old girl subject to the all the Eurocentrism that Britain has to offer speak about Abyssynia rather than Ethiopia--unless that person is deeply into history--which I doubt.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Well, most Africans I know of consider themselves black (tho this is less so on the NW part and in Egypt and Sudan who just consider themselves African).
quote:In conclusion, Northeast African blood makes the difference between advanced civilization and no-civilization among farmers.
^ A bad conclusion
Why??
Because Somalia for example, has never had any "civilization", while places outside of Northeast Africa, like Mali for example, has. Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:In conclusion, Northeast African blood makes the difference between advanced civilization and no-civilization among farmers.
^ A bad conclusion
Why??
Because Somalia for example, has never had any "civilization", while places outside of Northeast Africa, like Mali for example, has.
Well it all boils down to lifestyle, somalis are nomads by nature and nomads don't build civilizations, but we did have some good trading cities though like Zeyla, Berbera and Moqdishu with networks reaching all the way to india and china But people who share the same type of genetic makeup as somalis and are sedentary unlike somalis have buildt some good civlizations, Northeast africa is our region, including Kush and Egypt
quote:like Mali for example
Mali, eh? Is that the best you could come up with? Wasn't it an Afrasian development, like Berber/West african hybrid. Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Sleuthing the article I notice that the author spells "realize" according to American English. In the U.K. that word is spelled "realise".
And crossing the Rift Valley at low tide--how does the author--for all practical purposes "British"--know this?
Also why would an 18 year old girl subject to the all the Eurocentrism that Britain has to offer speak about Abyssynia rather than Ethiopia--unless that person is deeply into history--which I doubt.
LOL damn that is good sleuthing I'm impressed Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:Mali, eh? Is that the best you could come up with? Wasn't it an Afrasian development, like Berber/West african hybrid.
If it weren't for Mali we wouldn't be advanced enough to have computers (what they contributed to mathematics and science not counting that the world's economy relied on Africa)
I don't know much about Berber contribution to Mali other than trading across the Sahara
Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:markellion wrote: If it weren't for Mali we wouldn't be advanced enough to have computers
Are you trying to be sarcastic? What does a medevil nation have to do with computers, a post-industrial technology? Or are you one of thos ultra left-wing liberal goofs who thinks he's talking to a child when talking to "blacks"?
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Another example of advanced mathematics in west Africa:
"Have you heard of Mansa Musa?"
"In 2002, Michael Palin, a BBC programme maker, returned from Timbuktu to report that the Great Mosque of Timbuktu "has a collection of scientific texts that clearly show the planets circling the sun. They date back hundreds of years ... It is convincing evidence that the scholars of Timbuktu knew a lot more than their counterparts in Europe".
Palin added: "In the 15th century in Timbuktu, the mathematicians knew about the rotation of the planets, knew about the details of the eclipse, knew things which we had to wait for 1 50, almost 200 years to know in Europe when Galileo and Copernicus came up with these same calculations and were given a very hard time for it."
Imam Mohammed Habott, a black Mauritanian, has inherited 1,300 medieval hooks as family heirlooms. The Mauritanian cities of Chinguetti and Oudane have a total of 3,450 medieval books. There may be another 6,000 books still surviving in the other city of Walata. Some date back to the 8th century AD. There are also 11,000 books in private collections in Niger."
We still know very little of what African civilizations have contributed to the world but Timbuktu had a huge impact.
Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
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The modern world is built on top of a tradition of a hundred Civilizations civilizations (often at their expense) all over the world. From China to Timbuktu
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You neo-liberalists disgust me, really you do. You paternalistic attitude is waay over the top. You are 100 times more of a threat to this world than Nazis ever where
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Habeshe gurl wrote: And here in the UK they do distinguish between Horn Africans and other "Sub-Saharan" Africans; for example on my university application form they had separate fields under ethnicity: one read "Black-African" and the other Somali/Ethiopian.
Really, they do that?
The distinction is not based on race......refugee status is behind the separation. U have to be seriously misguided to think the English dont see black when they look at Somali's and Ethiopians.
That article is simply Eurocentric progamming for dummies.
Posts: 404 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Thanks for the "Newsflash"...NOT.
You neo-liberalists disgust me, really you do. You paternalistic attitude is waay over the top. You are 100 times more of a threat to this world than Nazis ever where
News flash for you kido: neo-liberalism and ultra-left wingers are in two different camps. One is a conservative economic ideology not connected to the political philosophy of liberals. And Hitler was no more a threat to the world than Saddam. Stop falling for government propaganda.
posted
In the video I linked "African fractals, in buildings and braids" at 13:00-14:00 Ron Eglash claims Muslims brought binary code into Spain and it was originally used for divination
Europeans got guns from China, everybody is good for something
If you think I'm an ultra left winger you misunderstood what I said
Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Habeshe gurl wrote: And here in the UK they do distinguish between Horn Africans and other "Sub-Saharan" Africans; for example on my university application form they had separate fields under ethnicity: one read "Black-African" and the other Somali/Ethiopian.
Really, they do that?
The distinction is not based on race......refugee status is behind the separation. U have to be seriously misguided to think the English dont see black when they look at Somali's and Ethiopians.
That article is simply Eurocentric progamming for dummies.
I don't live in England so i don't know their system, i also thought it was awkward, i'm sure she's made up that part. Anyway where i live it's against the customs to have racial census, you are either a foreigner or a swedish citizen, 22% of the country at this moment are not even born in sweden or have atleast a parent that's not born in sweden. By the end of this century it's estimated to be more than 50% percent. Swedes want to fill their country but they don't want to have class hierarchy based on ethnicity, thats why they prefer citizen vs none-citizen.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:neo-liberalism and ultra-left wingers are in two different camps. One is a conservative economic ideology not connected to the political philosophy of liberals.
Well for me they are the same sh!t, i prefer nazis than any of them. Many of the worlds current problems, with humanism and human-rights and other crap to cover up their economic explotation is a direct result of their actions. When a nation is about to grow they pull out the human-rights card and sanction it of abusing workers, environment pollution etc, but when a country is stagnant they pull out the IMF and World bank tools to further push it down the gutter. Two ideologies complementing each other depending on the situation.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:neo-liberalism and ultra-left wingers are in two different camps. One is a conservative economic ideology not connected to the political philosophy of liberals.
Well for me they are the same sh!t, i prefer nazis than any of them. Many of the worlds current problems, with humanism and human-rights and other crap to cover up their economic explotation is a direct result of their actions. When a nation is about to grow they pull out the human-rights card and sanction it of abusing workers, environment pollution etc, but when a country is stagnant they pull out the IMF and World bank tools to further push it down the gutter. Two ideologies complementing each other depending on the situation.
Never thought of it that way. Very perceptive. . You know Yonis, despite some of your anti-black rants you make sense sometimes. lol
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by markellion: Let me put it this way, do you think we'd have computers today if Aristotle wasn't born?
What is with the obsession with computers? And no i don't think their is a single variable that caused the current technological advancement after the industrial age, computer is a function of multiple varibales that can't really be pin pointed at this moment.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by markellion: Let me put it this way, do you think we'd have computers today if Aristotle wasn't born?
What is with the obsession with computers? And no i don't think their is a single variable that caused the current technological advancement after the industrial age, computer is a function of multiple varibales that can't really be pin pointed at this moment.
I think there is some sub-conscious prejudice there, one of the physicists who worked on the atomic bombs claimed we wouldn't be able to dream of making one if it weren't for the Indian Vedas.
Even if you disagree with him on that would you go out and call him an ultra-liberal? Just to clear up confusion this is how I made the Mali-modern computer connection
"Talks Ron Eglash: African fractals, in buildings and braids"
Muslims all over the world went to Timbuktu (in Mali) to study mathematics and Muslims would spread these ideas to Europe, one example being binary code
Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Markellion wrote: Muslims all over the world went to Timbuktu (in Mali) to study mathematics and Muslims would spread these ideas to Europe, one example being binary code
I doubt muslims all over the world went to Timbuktu for the purpose of attaining knowledge, Bagdad served this purpose for muslims. However many copies of islamic work ended up in Timbuktu. A better argument would be of all the "black" naturalized muslims in middle-east who were occupied in the fields of philosophy and in fields of chemistry and Mathematics in Bagdad but their works are unfortunatly today branded as arab since 1)They were all muslims and 2) All had arabic names connected to arabic peninsula tribes which made them closer to the prophet.
Persians were smart though they mostly used their city of birth as a middle name, this way many "arab work" have instead been re-classified as Persian in recent times. Like the founder of Algebra Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Musa Al- Khwarizmi . Khwarizmi is a town in modern day Uzbekistan part of Iran. Without this ending of his name he would today be seen as an arab.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by markellion: I think there is some sub-conscious prejudice there, one of the physicists who worked on the atomic bombs claimed we wouldn't be able to dream of making one if it weren't for the Indian Vedas.
Even if you disagree with him on that would you go out and call him an ultra-liberal?
^I doubt it. The 'ruling Elite' and (especially) their apologists sicken me.
quote:Muslims all over the world went to Timbuktu (in Mali) to study mathematics and Muslims would spread these ideas to Europe, one example being binary code
Right, err, I could see how one could take this to be a bad statement:
quote:Originally posted by Yonis: I doubt muslims all over the world went to Timbuktu for the purpose of attaining knowledge
What the hell, Yonis?
I don't agree with his computer claims because (although I have the book by Ron Eglash) I have more to learn.
However, 'all over the world' is a figure of speech and of course could not literally be true at that time as there weren't even Muslims from all over the world yet.
[qutoe]Muslims from various parts of the world went to Timbuktu (in Mali) to study mathematics and Muslims would spread these ideas to Europe, one example being binary code[/quote]
^Happy now?
Markellion: binary was really ('originally') discovered in Mali?
^I don't mean to imply it wasn't independantly discovered elsewhere as it's a phreakin' number base.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
I didn't really realize the importance of Timbuktu until I saw this documentary, but it's no joke. This is from the Digging for the truth series
"Timbuktu"
If anyone wants to they can buy the episode and download it for $1.99
"At the height of its power, Mali had at least 400 cities, and the interior of the Niger Delta was very densely populated. One of the cities, Timbuktu rose from obscurity to great commercial and cultural importance. It became a centre of learning, one of the foremost centres of Islamic scholarship in the world."
quote:Markellion: binary was really ('originally') discovered in Mali?
That could be one of the ideas that would have spread to Europe through Muslims
Ideas from all over the world went to Timbuktu so people who studied there would learn about these things. The virtue of Timbuktu seems to be that it was very multicultural, so there is a huge range of ideas in one place and people who studied there could bring those ideas to their place of origin
Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
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My question is that if in fact it is true that Horn Africans are not indigenous to the African Continent, would that not disqualify us from being truly "black?"
It is really rather simple logically. If Yemeni could simply walk into Africa then what would preclude Africans from simply walking into Yemen?
Being that you "CLAIM" to be Ethiopian. You should know your history better than I. And you should know that the Sabean people were originally from Yemen but conquered by the Ethiopian Aksumites. You should also know that the Aksum empire overcame the Mero/Nubian empire. Ethiopians are logically a mixture of various different people: Yemen, Nubian, Egyptian, Italian, etc. However, you should also know that Southern Ethiopians such as the Oromo are not as mixed.
Europeans like to use the term: lower Hamites. Clearly just primarily African people.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Mali, eh? Is that the best you could come up with? Wasn't it an Afrasian development, like Berber/West african hybrid.
No. I see that you're as ignorant as you are unsightly. No documents available attest to any sort of "Afriasian" development in Mali as it was a Niger-Congo based confederation sprung from an earlier, non-islamic, Niger Congo based empire in Mauritania, called "Ghana" which was responsible for initially pushing the Berbers back north, deeper into the Sahara after taking over Awkar. Sundiata Keita (founder of Mali) is not an "Afriasian" name (it's Mande) and neither is the title of "Mansa". The most prominent role Berbers had in Malian society was that of an honorable guest (an exception being that there were many noted Tuareg professors at Sankore). Such were referred to in Timbuktu as the "Korei-Farma", or 'white foreigners'. Get your facts straight and stop making blind excuses for the failed historical significance of Somalia. Thanx. Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Mali, eh? Is that the best you could come up with? Wasn't it an Afrasian development, like Berber/West african hybrid.
No. I see that you're as ignorant as you are unsightly. No documents available attest to any sort of "Afriasian" development in Mali as it was a Niger-Congo based confederation sprung from an earlier, non-islamic, Niger Congo based empire in Mauritania, called "Ghana" which was responsible for initially pushing the Berbers back north, deeper into the Sahara after taking over Awkar. Sundiata Keita (founder of Mali) is not an "Afriasian" name (it's Mande) and neither is the title of "Mansa". The most prominent role Berbers had in Malian society was that of an honorable guest (an exception being that there were many noted Tuareg professors at Sankore). Such were referred to in Timbuktu as the "Korei-Farma", or 'white foreigners'. Get your facts straight and stop making blind excuses for the failed historical significance of Somalia. Thanx.
Impressive! I see you have developed a very keen debating style over the last few years.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Mali, eh? Is that the best you could come up with? Wasn't it an Afrasian development, like Berber/West african hybrid.
No. I see that you're as ignorant as you are unsightly. No documents available attest to any sort of "Afriasian" development in Mali as it was a Niger-Congo based confederation sprung from an earlier, non-islamic, Niger Congo based empire in Mauritania, called "Ghana" which was responsible for initially pushing the Berbers back north, deeper into the Sahara after taking over Awkar. Sundiata Keita (founder of Mali) is not an "Afriasian" name (it's Mande) and neither is the title of "Mansa". The most prominent role Berbers had in Malian society was that of an honorable guest (an exception being that there were many noted Tuareg professors at Sankore). Such were referred to in Timbuktu as the "Korei-Farma", or 'white foreigners'. Get your facts straight and stop making blind excuses for the failed historical significance of Somalia. Thanx.
Why on earth would black African berbers be referred to as white foreigners? The ancient Berber clans of Mauretania and the Sahara were anything but whites. Remember that Timbuktu is not the only repository of ancient African knowledge, but there are also hundreds of thousands of books held by Africans in Mauretania and the Sahara as well. They were all part of the great ink road from Andalus to West Africa.
Posts: 8895 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: Impressive! I see you have developed a very keen debating style over the last few years.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: [qb]
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Mali, eh? Is that the best you could come up with? Wasn't it an Afrasian development, like Berber/West african hybrid.
No. I see that you're as ignorant as you are unsightly. No documents available attest to any sort of "Afriasian" development in Mali as it was a Niger-Congo based confederation sprung from an earlier, non-islamic, Niger Congo based empire in Mauritania, called "Ghana" which was responsible for initially pushing the Berbers back north, deeper into the Sahara after taking over Awkar. Sundiata Keita (founder of Mali) is not an "Afriasian" name (it's Mande) and neither is the title of "Mansa". The most prominent role Berbers had in Malian society was that of an honorable guest (an exception being that there were many noted Tuareg professors at Sankore). Such were referred to in Timbuktu as the "Korei-Farma", or 'white foreigners'. Get your facts straight and stop making blind excuses for the failed historical significance of Somalia. Thanx.
Why on earth would black African berbers be referred to as white foreigners? The ancient Berber clans of Mauretania and the Sahara were anything but whites. Remember that Timbuktu is not the only repository of ancient African knowledge, but there are also hundreds of thousands of books held by Africans in Mauretania and the Sahara as well. They were all part of the great ink road from Andalus to West Africa.
Who said anything about "Black African" Berbers? First, Timbuktu isn't in Mauritania, it's in Mali which should hint at the fact that I also wasn't referring to Berbers from Mauritania. Second, These were terms used to describe a minority present at the time in the population there, be it Arabs or some Arabized Berbers who lived or traveled there, like Ibn Battuta. Point being, which was intended for Yonis, the inane (other than religion) "Afrasian" contribution to medieval Malian society.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by markellion: Let me put it this way, do you think we'd have computers today if Aristotle wasn't born?
Yes. European science has always been the result of innovations by the average citizen.
Take Gates for instance he is a college drop-out.He is a millionaire because he continued, to work on computers as a hobby and was able to have the money to make his idea a reality.
Many foriegn people belive American science is created in research institutes and Colleges this is false. It's ideas and the ability to make an idea a reality that has really contributed to technological innovation in the U.S.
Wagadu was built on the foundations of this, not on Berber contact
Don't get your historical information from Stormfront
"In all probability the legendary kingdom of Ghana, which for more than five centuries controlled the traffic in gold across the desert from western Sudan to the Mediterranean markets, arose from this civilisation, whose decline was triggered by a deterioration of the climate and the arrival of the Berbers in the region. It is precisely in this context that historians place the earliest references to Birou, a town of Soninke origin which centuries later was to become Walata."
quote:Sundiata wrote: empire in Mauritania, called "Ghana"
So you mean "Ghana" was in Mauritania?? Oh geez this makes it even more dubious. Even untiill today the elites of Mauritania are berbers
President of Mauritania.
Btw that woman needs to put down the bleach cream, her face has turned grey.
Seeing how Ghana (Wagadou) was founded by Soninke-speakers whom already had resided there makes this sparse connection between past and present demographics having any particular bearing on this empire at all, patently ridiculous. I was sure that I'd explained that though and you're merely looking to save face for your own Eurocentric folly.
quote:Archaeological investigations in southern Mauretania have revealed a wealth of rather spectacular stone masonry villages which were occupied by prehistoric cultivators as early as 1000 B.C. It is argued that the inhabitants of these villages were Negro and very probably Soninke, and that the basic elements of their culture had developed without major influences from outside the area. The apparent sophistication and complexity of this cultural manifestation, combined with the close fit of developments in this area with Carneiro's theory of state formation, suggests that this prehistoric complex represented at least a powerful chiefdom which embodied many of the characteristics of subsequent West African states [ala, Mali, Songhay]. The first demonstrable outside influences in the area began about 600 B.C. with the arrival of Libyco-Berbers from North Africa. Rather than causing still further cultural advances, the initial effect of this contact was the collapse of this sociopolitical organization. But with subsequent adjustment, plus the potential from trans-Saharan trade carried out by the North Africans, the basic, pre-existing pattern re-emerged, resulting eventually in a second and much more powerful African political organization in this area - the Ghana Empire.
Also look-up the early Tichitt-Walata settlements, attributable to the Mande and ancestors or pre-imperial Ghana.
Al-Bakri stated aswell that the native inhabitants were Black, including the king, and that in fact, they were non-Muslim Soninke (same people who'd always been there) and segregated themselves from Muslim guests in an adjacent section of the capital city of Koumbi Saleh.
"Although I myself have never traveled to Ghana, I have spoken to many merchants who have. I also have consulted the works of many of my fellow Muslim geographers. From these sources, I have determined that the Kingdom of Ghana is populated by the Soninke people, who call their land Wagadugu or Wagadu." - Al Bakri, 9th Century
I also recommend: The Question of Ghana # R. A. Mauny # Africa: Journal of the International African Institute, Vol. 24, No. 3 (Jul., 1954), pp. 200-213.
Educate your self and don't make yourself out to be such a fool in the name ethno-centric pride. It only amounts to petty discourse while exposing your own feeble incompetence.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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